August 26, 2010
Let There Be Light, A Nice Neighborhood, And A Deck Off The Kitchen
We would have redone the kitchen a little differently, and the wet bath on the second floor isn’t going to be everyone’s cup of tea, but there’s a lot we like about 1451 10th Avenue including the light, neighborhood (mmm....Arizmendi), and deck out back.
∙ Listing: 1451 10th Avenue (2/1.5) 1,275 - $799,000 [MLS]
First Published: August 26, 2010 4:45 PM
Comments from "Plugged In" Readers
Note to listing agent! Punctuation does have meaning... Very few sentences need to end with an exclamation mark! And the ellipsis mark also has limited use...
And note to photographer! back away from the saturation adjustment...
This looks like a nice house though I really don't know this neighborhood well enough to comment on its value!
Posted by: The Milkshake of Despair at August 26, 2010 5:22 PM
I like that there's a picture of the living room with doors open and doors closed. I would have continued with the cabinets in the kitchen instead of those useless glass shelves. My other problem with the kitchen is with its pictures having severe wide-angle-itis.
Is that room beyond the closed doors with the two random chairs the dining room? Is that second bedroom missing a closet? Cute house overall, but I don't dig the wet bathroom. Good idea for the realtor to provide a map of the surrounding neighborhood rather than inane and irrelevant pictures.
Is this priced right? They might be trying to use 1351 10th as a favorable comp from 2008, but that house had an unwarranted in-law, so it was really more like a 3/2. Speaking of which, is the half-bath here warranted? There was no permit pulled.
The other 2008 SFR sale on this street was the much larger 1475 10th which was in the low 500s/sqft.
The other interesting house on this street is the 2005 purchase of 1484 10th for $1.6M. It's a 5/5.5 2800 sqft McMansion on a postage stamp-sized lot that subsequently was listed for at least $1.849M in 2008 with continual price drops through 2009. It's officially de-listed on MLS, but appears to be FSBO right now for $1.495M.
Posted by: sfrenegade at August 26, 2010 5:27 PM
lush garden my ass, more like haphazard.
Posted by: marko1332 at August 26, 2010 5:28 PM
Super walkable, safe & friendly neighborhood, UCSF-ish, GG park/Andronico/restaurants just 2 blocks away, N Muni 1 block, sunny side of Sunset. It has a garage!! Wish I could afford it...
Posted by: anon at August 26, 2010 6:05 PM
I think this is a lovely place. It seems cheap, like a condo price for the area. Is that a pricing strategy?
Posted by: SJM at August 26, 2010 7:02 PM
Cheesy kitchen, I hate black front appliances, cheap track lighting will give you full shadows on the counters as you slice open your finger.
What's with that cabinet in the dining room with the cornice trim at top? looks like they just moved that in place.
Wet baths are a terrible choice. The entire room is wet after you're done showering; not so pleasant to use.
Posted by: noearch at August 26, 2010 7:27 PM
Place looks smaller than 1200 sqft. Also weird that the dining room is not staged as one, and the listing describes possible uses for what seems to be the dining room as a study/den/media room. Does that mean the room is really really small?
Posted by: astral at August 26, 2010 9:31 PM
Yeah, what's up with that two-chair room? There's that big ol' hump right in the middle of the wall, and I can't figure out what's supposed to be on the other side. It ain't the stairs.
Posted by: EH at August 26, 2010 9:59 PM
Wow, tough crowd! Love the neighborhood, love a lot of things about the house, including the pocket doors, the deck, and the backyard. I'd need to do something about the bathroom.
The price seems decent, but I'm not tracking comps in the Inner Sunset. I work in the East Bay, so I won't live that far west. Also, I think the fog would get to me in the end...
Posted by: RenterAgain at August 26, 2010 10:45 PM
Kudos for the "Carrara" marble. At least the agent has some basic knowledge, not like the idiots who think that "spell-check OK" means it's correct.
Enough already with "Carrera" that we see 1/2 of the time. I've been in both Carrara and Carrera. Both produce dust, but that's all they have in common...
Posted by: lol at August 26, 2010 10:57 PM
Wow, this house is beautiful. The location is a nice combination of lively yet livable, but the fog is thick there much of the time. All that space and classic style really makes generic condo boxes South of Market seem completely outclassed and overpriced.
Posted by: Mole Man at August 27, 2010 7:21 AM
Spell check would have shown either Carrara or Carrera to be an error. "Must criticize. Even if technically corr-ECT. wheep nork. does not comPUTE. must criticIze. danger level. must criticize. wheep nork."
Posted by: no dice at August 27, 2010 8:10 AM
The media room confuses me -- it needs to be staged better. The kitchen is a hodge podge. Poor layout. It's screaming for an island. The back garden intimidates me -- I'd be concerned about all the required maintenance. However, I do like its curb appeal and the carrara bathroom.
Posted by: Lori at August 27, 2010 8:50 AM
I don't see a pot filler, cross it off my list.
Posted by: bernalkid at August 27, 2010 9:53 AM
Wet baths are great for toddlers ... or at least for boys. Boys .. and some grownup men also .. tend to lack control when using the bathroom and it's very convenient to simply take the shower head and hose down the area every so often.
Posted by: MossySF at August 27, 2010 10:15 AM
Carrara marble is extremely soft for kitchen counter tops,and it stains badly; I never recommend it for projects.
Posted by: noearch at August 27, 2010 10:38 AM
Marble also absorbs and retains oil. So using light colored marble for a countertop is really asking for trouble. Granite is a much better choice.
Speaking of which, can anyone identify the stone used for countertops in this kitchen :
It looks like marble though hard to tell in just photos. If it is marble then the new owners would be wise to be very careful.
White marble countertops won't negatively impact the sale of newly remodeled kitchens since they look fantastic brand new and probably only 5% of buyers realize the problems that lie in wait. But for a resale five years down the road marble countertops might look dingy.
But that assumes showplace kitchens are actually used for cooking.
Posted by: The Milkshake of Despair at August 27, 2010 11:09 AM
I'm confused. Isn't the fireplace Carrara marble, according to MLS? Are the bathroom and kitchen? For the bathroom, all it says is "natural stone."
Carrara is indeed terrible for kitchens and bathrooms, but lots of people like the look, so they do it anyway...
Posted by: sfrenegade at August 27, 2010 11:19 AM
Speaking of which, can anyone identify the stone used for countertops in this kitchen
It looks (photo 3) like my grandmother's crypt, with a sink cut in the top. I'll ask the undertaker what it's made of.
Posted by: tipster at August 27, 2010 11:27 AM
Yes, the kitchen ain't white carrara.. Looks like dark granite. And the bath looks to be some type of travertine. So while it's fun to get all hopped up and criticize white carrara counters, maybe we should save it for a house that has them.
Posted by: R at August 27, 2010 11:28 AM
Sorry about the confusion, I was not referring to the subject of this article but rather this house at 558 Chenery which definitely has a white stone countertop.
Posted by: The Milkshake of Despair at August 27, 2010 11:35 AM
The house at 39 States St featured today on SFGate has Carrara in the kitchen and possibly in the bath too. Spelled wrong (as "carerra"), and looks like they are trying to claim a den as a 3rd bedroom, in addition to the fact that DBI doesn't agree that this was a complete remodel in 2006 (permit says kitchen and bathrooms only).
Posted by: sfrenegade at August 27, 2010 12:09 PM
This place is adorable.
Posted by: jenofla at August 27, 2010 4:54 PM
I think it's perfectly ok to comment about the pros/cons of marble here, whether it's used or not in this house.
Even better choice for kitchen counters is recycled glass..
Posted by: noearch at August 27, 2010 6:56 PM
White marble, including carrara, is the best marble for counters. It is structurally tighter and therefore much better for bacteria. They do stain and dull with use, but once they do that for a while they look and function great. They are also better for preparation of bake goods than a lot of other stones.
Note that I am comparing it to other marble; granite will stain less. Honed ceasarstone and the like are not warranteed by the company for any countertop or high traffic area, so they are even worse. Concrete needs annual waxing. There are pros and cons to most surfaces. Agree that Recycled glass is a good choice.
Posted by: sparky-b at August 27, 2010 7:35 PM
Nope sparkyb: white marble is simply NOT the best marble for countertops. That may be your opinion based on the fact you like it, that's cool, technically it's not the best. It's soft, porous, and does stain easily. When that happens they will not, in fact, "look and function great". Just not true. Doesn't mean lots of people don't choose white marble. they do. They tend to choose looks over function.
The other materials you mentioned all have some pro/con issues, like everything, but they are just as viable as countertops.
Posted by: noearch at August 28, 2010 12:32 PM
It's not my opinion, that information is from a stone distributer who gave me information about it when I asked, Why white marbles are considered acceptable for kitchens while other marbles are not?"
I don't spec. it for jobs becuase of care issues. I do put it in bathrooms. "White princess" granite, for example, is a better choice for a white stone look.
Posted by: sparky-b at August 28, 2010 12:48 PM
I saw this place. The garden is the nicest feature. The 1/2 bath downstairs is the smallest possible room you could fit a toilet into. It's unwarranted. The upstairs is a little strange. The office has very nice light, but it would be tough to use as a 2nd bedroom because of the layout and lack of closets. The bedroom is tiny (the bed basically fills it) and the closets are almost crawl-spaces under the sloping roofline. Kitchen is decent, but the ridiculous luxury stove looks out of place and out of scale. I'm not sure how you would use the 'media room'. The garage is spacious with room for two small cars tandem if you wanted as well as storage space. Basically, the best parts of this place are at ground level and it gets worse as you go up. I don't think it's worth the price, but there was a *lot* of traffic when I saw it so I wouldn't be surprised to see it go at this price or higher.
Posted by: Yoda at August 28, 2010 6:14 PM
@Yeah, what's up with that two-chair room? There's that big ol' hump right in the middle of the wall, and I can't figure out what's supposed to be on the other side. It ain't the stairs.
That is the back of the toilet in the kitchen. This lay out kind of bugs me because the toilet door opens right into the kitchen, which is gross to me. If they had the door on the media room side it would work much better.
I loved the house esp. the downstairs/yard/garage. The deck is really nice as well. It does have "personality" with the layout. The upstairs 2nd bedroom is a better office than a bedroom. I was not a fan of the wet bath.
Posted by: Clintsea at August 30, 2010 12:48 PM
"White marble, including carrara, is the best marble for counters."
That's entirely possible. I still shy away from marble for counters because of the stain/etching issues. Plus, if I remember, white carrara tends to have a lot of iron in it, so if you get any moisture under it, it tends to get yellow rusty stains.
What people call "green marble" is even better than marble. It's really serpentine, not marble, and it generally doesn't etch or stain like marble.
Posted by: sfrenegade at August 30, 2010 3:26 PM