February 8, 2010

Going Short Heritage On Fillmore (1310 Fillmore) Having Bought Long

Asking "in the $900’s" for the five three-bedrooms at Heritage on Fillmore (1310 Fillmore) in December 2006, number 802 sold in November 2007 and sports a tax assessed value of $993,953 (which would suggest a sale price "in the $950’s").

First listed as a proposed short sale at $765,000 seven days ago, 1310 Fillmore #802's proposed short sale price was reduced to $665,000 three days later. No mention, however, of the sale price being pre-approved.

At the same time, the two-bedroom Heritage on Fillmore number 803 is now a proposed short sale "waiting for lender’s approval." Purchased for $810,000 in June 2007, first listed as a resale in September 2008, and now seeking a short sale at $649,000.

∙ Listing: 1310 Fillmore #802 (3/2) 1,407 sqft – "$665,000" [Redfin]
∙ Listing: 1310 Fillmore #803 (2/2) 1,115 sqft – "$649,000" [MLS]
Heritage On Fillmore: The VIP Scoop [SocketSite]

First Published: February 8, 2010 9:30 AM

Comments from "Plugged In" Readers

some of the ugliest curtains i've ever seen....

Posted by: chguy at February 8, 2010 9:44 AM

I heard that nearly every restaurant on that part of Fillmore is on life support. A large one just shut down.

Anyone buying there should anticipate a drastically different neighborhood in 3-5 years, and bid accordingly.

Posted by: tipster at February 8, 2010 9:47 AM

future low-income housing.

Posted by: resp at February 8, 2010 11:03 AM

"I heard that nearly every restaurant on that part of Fillmore is on life support."

FWIW, I was at Gussie's on a Friday night a few weeks ago, and it was almost empty. Things picked up a tiny bit before I left, but it wasn't particularly hopping.

Posted by: anon at February 8, 2010 11:32 AM

Unit 802 received a NOTS on Jan. 21; auction possible on Feb. 10 (according to RealtyTrac).
It appears that both #802 and #803 had Countrywide financing.

Posted by: EBGuy at February 8, 2010 1:16 PM

am I the only one who thinks this is terribly, terribly sad as opposed to those (on this board) who jump for joy at this kind of news?

I know, "boy were they dumb", "boy were they greedy," "who thought anyone would ever buy here," "jazz is for hipsters who aren't really hip" and "why buy chicken when you can eat lobster", etc.

What about hopes and dreams? Oh. I forgot. SS readers are too smart for naivete like dreams and hopes and aspirations. It's all about them and how they would never live in a place that cost them less than $900 sq ft. or exists anywhere outside the golden triangle, or whatever they call it these days.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Posted by: gudsam at February 8, 2010 8:08 PM

am I the only one who thinks this is terribly, terribly sad as opposed to those (on this board) who jump for joy at this kind of news?

I just re-read all of the comments, and I don't see anybody jumping for joy. Or anybody saying anything about dumb buyers, greedy buyers, hipster buyers, etc.

Posted by: joh at February 8, 2010 8:35 PM

gudsam 8:08 PM : I used to religiously read the postings on SS as the folks on the site were highly intelligent, insightful, well informed and generally objective. There was of course some "irrational exuberance" during the last real estate up cycle of '05-'06 and there were the inevitable occasional elitists - but the deterioration of the posting panel has been astounding. There are more lowbrow personal attacks than I can remember and the sadistic incessant beat down on the unfortunate ones by certain individuals has become downright tiresome. The irony is that some of these posters appear to be online throughout the work day. I have always wondered if these folks have been unemployed so long they are taking out their frustrations placing nasty postings on SS...

Posted by: Outsider at February 8, 2010 9:13 PM

gudsam, outsider,

1 - Nobody was whining when 90% of the populace was technically priced out from owning its place in SF (Duh! That's the flip side of a 10% affordability index!).

The few fools that overextended themselves through risky financing and positive reinforcement on steroids are paying the price today. They made the prudent ones miserable for a long time.

What about THAT story: all the real productive lives pushed aside for the sake of appreciation. How many had to postpone a kid, an education, a change in career for the incomparable privilege of saving an extra 50K for that elusive condo that had gained yet another 100K that year?

Pricing out the mass was lots of fun for the fools, destructive for the rest of society.

Now the careful ones look smart and the new debt slave losers look like idiots. But soon enough it will be the other way around, no worries. We will never learn, we are wired that way. Seriously, with all the overcosts and constraints of SF, you'd think they at least knew how to work a spreadsheet ;)

But appreciation was supposed to save everyone on its great white horse before debt had to be repaid. Wheat, chaff, etc... = good riddance. The 1M 2BR should have stayed the privilege of a few chosen areas and buildings, not the Projects/BMR/Condos of "up-and-coming" Fillmore et al.

2 - Sure schadenfreude abounds on SS and nastiness did crop out a few great posters (even the threat of legal action!). But the editor is doing a fantastic job at keeping good stories coming. Too bad he's almost the only one posting witty content.

Posted by: Seriously? at February 8, 2010 9:53 PM

I lived in the rental monstrosity across the road when I first arrived in San Fran. The neighborhood is filled with gang bangers and I can't tell you how many drive by shootings occured in my 1 year of residence. Walking around the hood after 8 PM at night defintely gave me the sense I was placing my life on the line.

That part of Fillmore is going nowhere until they demolish the housing projects on the block and relocate the inhabitants.

You couldn't pay me enough money to live withing 5 blocks of that location.

Posted by: exsfr at February 9, 2010 9:01 AM

Seriously - aren't we all the new debt slaves? It's not like I'm not paying for the bailout through a non-performing saving account, zombie banks that won't lend and freeze businesses out, or the massive national debt.

I"m annoyed at these idiots who bought homes that they couldn't afford using exotic financing that anybody with a pulse could have figured out was high risk. I don't know if these are the people who lost homes in this building or not.

I'm more annoyed at the regulators who didn't regulate, the prosecutors who looked the other way and the news editors who refused to publish contrarian viewpoints because they might scare off the RE advertisers.

It's a sad situation all around. I don't see anyone jumping for joy, period.

Posted by: embarcadero at February 9, 2010 9:22 AM

new debt slaves we are. I just wished they used a magic wand and kick the burden down one generation!

I am consistently removing my assets from CITI, BOFA, CHASE because none of them will give me more than 1% on my precious cash while they stick us with the bill (through toxic assets purchased by the USofA). They're having it both ways. We're getting it "both ways" ;)

Discover bank just upgraded me to a 1.68% special savings and that's not too bad considering flexibility. I am considering Ally and maybe a local bank as well. Good thing I did some CD laddering and the smaller players are where the freed up cash will go from now on. We all have some level of choice on how much debt slaves we want to be. Not getting into a mortgage is one way. Chasing after rates is another way.

Posted by: seriously at February 9, 2010 10:12 AM

I hope you are not exceeding 250K in any of the smaller banks. A client of mine recently lost up to 400K because the FDIC seized First Regional General Bank down in LA.

Posted by: anonn at February 9, 2010 10:19 AM

anonn,

That's on the very top of my concerns, thank you.
I'd love helping healthy locals instead of the national pigs that have put us in this bind.

Anyone got an idea if the 250K is permanent?

Posted by: seriously? at February 9, 2010 10:24 AM

"Anyone got an idea if the 250K is permanent?"

It is set to expire at the end of 2013. I'd expect efforts to renew or make it permanent shortly.

Posted by: The Milkshake of Despair at February 9, 2010 10:39 AM

Anyone got an idea if the 250K is permanent?
It's not like I don't understand why they temporarily raised the limit, but really, if you're going to have a limit, STICK TO IT. Hell, I bet we can fund a zillion new banks (no trust busting necessary) if the FDIC ran a campaign with first person testimonials from people like anonn's client. How about this: If you aggregate your money in one place, it WILL be used by the FDIC to minimize losses from the banks idiotic lending practices. That said, the low limit does make business banking onerous.
Sorry, pet peeve of mine.
PS - anonn, please thank your clients for me (and my children). True patriots. Ouch!

Posted by: EBGuy at February 9, 2010 10:50 AM

I'd expect the 250K to be permanent.

My cash is parked in CDs in my credit union, which had no role in the RE meltdown.

I'm starting to think that I might move some of my money into muni bonds - here and in Canada.

I took out a few hundred thousand dollars about 4 years ago and parked it in short term CDs, expecting that I'd buy real estate. Having the money out helped my portfolio, as did not buying. Not inclined to change just yet.

Posted by: Embarcadero at February 9, 2010 10:55 AM

PS - anonn, please thank your clients for me (and my children). True patriots. Ouch

Huh? Flippancy is how you respond, to that anecdote? Lame.

Posted by: anonn at February 9, 2010 11:08 AM

I am putting my money into forever stamps.

Posted by: sparky-b at February 9, 2010 11:08 AM

... terribly, terribly sad ... ashamed ...

What is the point of this kind judgment? We collectively allowed a bubble to occur and are now paying the price. Corrections can hurt people who got burned by the scam, but they are the mechanism that will return the market to sanity.

If more people had realized that it was a bubble that would pop then the party would have ended sooner because of a lack of buyers. Few with a sane view of real estate bought during this time frame, and no one with any integrity of any kind worked with Countrywide on anything. The quote owners unquote of these residences played with fire and got burned. Play bubble games with a blatantly corrupt lender and look what happens.

Posted by: Mole Man at February 9, 2010 11:12 AM

sparky-b

Good call. You'll always have enough postage to send jingle-mail.

Posted by: OneEyedMan at February 9, 2010 11:14 AM

I am putting my money into forever stamps.

Good luck selling your 50000 rolls back to the USPS lady.

Posted by: seriously? at February 9, 2010 11:18 AM

Flippancy
anonn, I'm serious. Did you read the rest of my post? As always, I value your field reports. I believe we're still teetering on the brink; lost downpayments on $1+million properties and overages on FDIC limits will help us get through it.
BTW, here's what I'm going to be using as my ATM machine. Earns 1% (cashback on credit card), plus you are doing the country a service by extending the life of our circulating currency. Patriotic duty indeed.

Posted by: EBGuy at February 9, 2010 11:38 AM

EBGuy,

No way! I'd love to see this happen!

Are you sure the US Mint will be categorize the transaction as an online purchase, and not a cash advance? If they did that, their interchange rate would be pretty high, adding to the shipping costs. With cash advance categorization, they let the Credit Card companies bill the customer instead of the merchant.

I'd try this one with a single set of rolls first, to be on the safe side. It would be silly to be charged 3% to get 1% cash back ;)

Posted by: wow at February 9, 2010 11:48 AM

It's surprising that folks would keep cash over the (increased!) FDIC limits in one bank in the first place. It may speak to the sophistication of "rich folks" buying property right now, if the anecdotes are true.

Does anyone know how much money is "lost" this way? I can't believe it's significant.

It's also surprising that otherwise intelligent people are being induced to get an extra 50 dollars "cash back" by purchasing coins with their cash-back credit card (20-box lifetime limit!).

I guarantee you there are easier ways to make money folks, it's not that bad out there yet ;-)

Posted by: dub dub at February 9, 2010 12:00 PM

$50 looks like the net maximum profit. You're receiving 5000 coins or ~90Lbs (one coin is 0.26 troy ounce) of currency at your door as well as 10+Lbs of packaging. Not my idea of an hassle-free buck. Then you have to circulate those coins!

Posted by: wow at February 9, 2010 12:15 PM

I guarantee you there are easier ways to make money folks, it's not that bad out there yet ;-)
You obviously don't have your checking and savings accounts at Wells Fargo :-O

Posted by: EBGuy at February 9, 2010 12:15 PM

FWIW, it's mixed on whether a $250K limit makes sense as a matter of inflation adjustment. It makes sense with respect to $100K in 1980, but not with respect to prior years.

Historically, here is how the FDIC limits have tracked, with the number on the left being the nominal amount and the number on the right being the inflation adjusted to 2009 amount.

# 1934 - $2,500 --> $40K
# 1935 - $5,000 --> $78K
# 1950 - $10,000 --> $89K
# 1966 - $15,000 --> $99K
# 1969 - $20,000 --> $116K
# 1974 - $40,000 --> $174K
# 1980 - $100,000 --> $260K

There's no good reason to exceed FDIC limits other than very quickly for businesses who may need to do so. Here's a way to help you determine whether you exceed limits (including joint accounts, POD accounts, etc.):
https://www.fdic.gov/EDIE/index.html

And if you have larger amounts you want to place in CDs, you can use CDARS:
http://www.cdars.com/

Posted by: sfrenegade at February 9, 2010 12:33 PM

I'm pretty sure you can't do that US Mint trick any more because they caught on to it (even if the US Mint can't spell):

https://answers.usmint.gov/cgi-bin/usmint.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=197

Anyway, you can't make that much from this any more. I think there was also a suggestion, as someone mentioned above, that the credit card companies were thinking of charging these as cash advances now instead of normal purchases. That means interest gets charged immediately upon posting.

Posted by: sfrenegade at February 9, 2010 12:40 PM

sfrenegade, nice catch. This looks like a cash advance type of transaction. Too bad debit cards do not carry cash back...

I guess that's it then for this get rich quick scheme. This could have really helped circulation of these coins, though ;)

Posted by: wow at February 9, 2010 12:49 PM

sfrenegade, Thanks for posting that link. I spent a significant amount of time on the US Mint website and never managed to see it back when I ordered. The Great Tree of Peace should be showing up on my doorstep any day now and I'll be sure to let people know how it is treated on my credit card. Rather bizarre as I have no idea why someone would participate in the program now. I took it as a given that the mint was offering incentives to get the coins in circulation (perhaps the program was too successful and they are now curtailing it. Note that availability goes out about a week or so for various issues).

Posted by: EBGuy at February 9, 2010 12:56 PM

EBGuy,

I hope the CC you used was not issued by one of the TARP pigs! It would be a real shame to give 3% of free money to those weasels simply to get currency. I assume they want people to use Debit cards instead.

Posted by: wow at February 9, 2010 1:10 PM

I assume they want people to use Debit cards instead.
Yeah, like I would ever carry around a Visa/Mastercard branded check card (pet peeve number 2 for this thread). The bank always tries to force one of those on me whenever my ATM card expires. The last time my spouse was ranting in public about the evils of check cards, the woman next to her nodded knowingly as she was 'negotiating' with her bank about putting money back into her account after her card had been stolen. No thanks.
Also, judging from a couple of blog entries, looks like the household limit on the dollar coin circulation program may have been put in place because of folks accumulating airline miles through the system. And yes, it occurred to me that this has turned into a backdoor solvency program for the banks :-)

Posted by: EBGuy at February 9, 2010 1:36 PM

FWIW, here's a link to FatWallet at the point when people started noticing credit card companies posting it as a cash advance instead of a purchase:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/837472/?start=4240

Posted by: sfrenegade at February 9, 2010 1:40 PM

Are you sure the US Mint will be categorize the transaction as an online purchase, and not a cash advance?
FWIW, my first order of $1 coins arrived a couple of weeks ago, and I just received by credit card statement. For you disbelievers, NO cash advance or finance charges, plus 1% cashback (who said there's no such thing as free money?) This was with a Wells Fargo Visa. I will try again next month if I ever get this load into circulation; I have to admit I'm still partial to paper George Washingtons.

Posted by: EBGuy at March 1, 2010 10:23 PM

I bought $5000 in dollar coins last month and paid no CC fees or shipping on my BofA cashback Visa card.

It works, the only mystery is why the Mint is doing this.

I was thinking of getting another $5k in coins and taking them to the DMV to pay my BMW registration! That'll learn 'em for charging so much!!

Posted by: Jimmy (No Longer Bitter) at March 2, 2010 11:30 AM

The short sale "list" price for 1310 Fillmore #802 has been reduced to $599,000. Once again, purchased November 2007 and with a tax assessed value of $993,953 (which would suggest a purchase price "in the $950’s").

Still no mention of the almighty "pre-approved."

Posted by: SocketSite at March 2, 2010 3:32 PM

Looked into the short sale.
BofA-Wells,
the mortgage monopoly,
won't lend on 1310 fillmore,
anymoe.

Posted by: Kathleen at July 16, 2010 6:03 PM

Redfin has it sold on 07/14/2010 for $600,000

Posted by: lol at July 16, 2010 8:07 PM

The previous one was for #802

#803 is listed at $572,900 with REO = Yes on the MLS

Posted by: lol at July 16, 2010 8:10 PM

These places were selling 2.5 years ago for about 60% more than today! Wow! That's just a stunning loss.

The new normal: 60% for 2.5 years!

Posted by: tipster at July 17, 2010 10:12 AM

I gotta disagree about the neighborhood. The area is in much better shape then it was 5 years ago. Go out any Friday or Saturday night and there is a real vibrancy to the place and most lounges, restaurants are very busy. As for Gussies, well the food and decor ain't impressive so I'm not surprised if it is not doing well. Go out Saturday mornings and there is a similar vibe due to the farmer's market which is always busy and has grown over the years.

Posted by: UUU at October 28, 2010 10:30 AM

"Go out any Friday or Saturday night and there is a real vibrancy to the place"

Disagree. Last time I was there on a Saturday night, it was dead. Crossing Geary into Japantown, however, that was lively. I've never been to the farmer's market in this area, however.

Posted by: sfrenegade at October 28, 2010 11:49 AM

2 floors up, 1002 just reduced to 38% off: 650K.

Posted by: tipster at March 10, 2011 10:25 PM

#1002 now reduced to $600K, purchased for 1.0335: 42% off.

Posted by: tipster at April 6, 2011 9:56 AM

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