May 7, 2009

The Price To Buy At 333 Bush (A.K.A. It’s Time To Tell On #3801)

333 Bush Street

Listed in January with a "priced to sell" list price of $1,150,000, we told you we’d tell you when 333 Bush #3801 sold. And it has. But apparently the "price to buy" was $930,000. No word on #3701 which was last listed at $1,500,000 but in a much improved state.

A Floor Higher And $350,000 Less At 333 Bush, Damn Those Neighbors [SocketSite]

First Published: May 7, 2009 10:00 AM

Comments from "Plugged In" Readers

Love the photo, never seen that angle before..

Posted by: BDB at May 7, 2009 10:12 AM

Any interior photos? Editor when past postings sell and are re-visited on SS obviously the MLS is yanked - any way to un-archive a few interior shots if there were any for those of us that can't remember what they looked like?

Posted by: gowiththeflow at May 7, 2009 10:16 AM

Ahhh, discussion of this building always saddens me as it was Heller Ehrman's building -- we lost a very good firm. I have heard that this building is in real trouble with the loss of Heller and the resulting large vacancies. Any idea if that would impact the condos on the upper floors? I would think not, but I have no idea how these mixed-use buildings operate with respect to HOAs.

Posted by: Trip at May 7, 2009 10:28 AM

Did you take this picture from my office? I'm looking at this exact view right now! It's a small world.

Posted by: D at May 7, 2009 10:30 AM

gwtf, here you go. Top of the world views and a superb building and location! Add $100K for a first class kitchen and bath update and new floors, and they paid about $780 psft fully redone to the highest standards! Wow!

http://www.trulia.com/homes/California/San_Francisco/sold/7038889-333-Bush-St-3801-San-Francisco-CA-94104

Posted by: tipster at May 7, 2009 11:04 AM

Not good news for 1RH. This is a far better location and finished building.

Posted by: oh my at May 7, 2009 11:14 AM

Isn't this the place where the listing agent admitted to fraud on a past sale here on Socketsite?

Posted by: anon at May 7, 2009 11:22 AM

Not good news for Millennium or the San Regis either. This unit has spectacular views and numerous corner windows. Congrats to the new owner. Really.

Posted by: flaneur at May 7, 2009 11:29 AM

3901 (same square footage) sold in May 2000 for $1,150,000. Now, 3801 sells for 20% under that price.

Another "1999" price (maybe even a "1998" price?). Amazing!

Posted by: LMRiM at May 7, 2009 11:31 AM

"Some experts have predicted flat to OUTRAGEOUSLY CRASHING prices in 2009, erasing OVER TEN YEARS of INSANE appreciation in the BLINK OF AN EYE!"

Posted by: tipster at May 7, 2009 11:43 AM

Thanks for the link. Congrats to the buyer. Great location, good views, great price. Upgrade it a bit and the place is A- (personal opin on the - as I wish it had a patio/outdoor space).

Posted by: gowiththeflow at May 7, 2009 12:04 PM

Tipster let's assume your right. Are you calling bottom enf of 2009/early 2010? How many years do you predict it will take to gain that all back?

Posted by: gowiththeflow at May 7, 2009 12:07 PM

""Some experts have predicted flat to OUTRAGEOUSLY CRASHING prices in 2009, erasing OVER TEN YEARS of INSANE appreciation in the BLINK OF AN EYE!"

And a great many non-expert bloggers predicted outrageously crashing prices in 2008, and earlier. So what?

Posted by: anonn at May 7, 2009 12:08 PM

"So what?" Now is not a good time to buy if you've been thinking about it.

Posted by: flaneur at May 7, 2009 12:14 PM

Well, thank you for at least bothering to attach a critical thought to someone else's out of context, unqualified flame of a post. It almost makes it worth something.

Posted by: anonn at May 7, 2009 12:19 PM

Wow, this might be an investor! Rent it for $5500!

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/1147530479.html

[Editor's Note: Keep in mind #3801 was listed at 1,320 square feet.]

Posted by: chuckie at May 7, 2009 12:24 PM

This building is not easy to sell, with $1000 hoa fees and $300 parking, and without much of a neighborhood -- well, unless you consider office buildings as a neighborhood...

Posted by: steve at May 7, 2009 12:28 PM

$1000 HOA? What the heck? What are you getting for that price?

Posted by: NoeValleyJim at May 7, 2009 12:59 PM

$1000 HOA? What the heck? What are you getting for that price?

For my money, it better be "room service".....

Posted by: Debtpocalypse at May 7, 2009 1:02 PM

I checked out a unit on a really high floor here (> 40) a couple years ago - had huge corner terraces. The views were amazing, but yeah that HOA is ridiculous.

Posted by: lolcat_94123 at May 7, 2009 1:06 PM

High HOA's is probably due to the very small number of residential units having to split the cost of full-time security and janitor, courtyard landscaping, elevator maintenance and so on.

Posted by: flaneur at May 7, 2009 1:10 PM

"$1000 HOA? What the heck? What are you getting for that price?"

I wonder if this is the future for all highrises. Anyone has numbers or anecdotes on how hoa's change over time for highrises?

Posted by: chuckie at May 7, 2009 1:16 PM

My guess would be since its a mixed use building, the fewer residential units need to carry more of the common area costs than a typical residential building would.

Posted by: JB at May 7, 2009 1:18 PM

"$1000 HOA? What the heck? What are you getting for that price?"

As was discussed here with the Beacon and a couple other properties, perhaps the high residential HOA is due to the commercial part of the building getting a sweet deal.

Posted by: Delancey at May 7, 2009 1:32 PM

As was discussed here with the Beacon and a couple other properties, perhaps the high residential HOA is due to the commercial part of the building getting a sweet deal.

It may have something to do with the fact that at least 10 of the 33 commercial floors are actually empty following the collapse of Heller Ehrman.

I used to work in this building (ahem) and can't imagine wanting to live in it (or anywhere in the financial district). It's got good public transportation access but the area itself is completely dead at night (unless you want to count the mediocre food and outdated vodka bar in belden place) and over the weekend. Living 5 minutes from work sounds nice in some sense until you think about the fact that you'd be living among office buildings (and would have little mental separation from work).

Posted by: shza at May 7, 2009 1:45 PM

Is there any HOA research available? I live in a high HOA building and am wondering how much it's worth pressing trying to get the HOAs lowered. And what sort of tactics can be used.

Posted by: pwb at May 7, 2009 1:53 PM

"$1000 HOA? What the heck? What are you getting for that price?"

This is what you get there: a receptionist, water, janitorial service. They were planning to put in a tiny gym 4 years ago, don't know the status of that.

Posted by: steve at May 7, 2009 1:56 PM

and the tiny gym had a special assessement of $5000 per unit.

Posted by: steve at May 7, 2009 1:59 PM

"I wonder if this is the future for all highrises. Anyone has numbers or anecdotes on how hoa's change over time for highrises? "

This is what has happened in Chicago with fees shooting up over time. And it gets worse, the older the building the higher the HOA's. There are many older buildings with huge maintenance problems which have HOA's of $1,700 to over $2,000 a month for units that sold in the $400K's. Newer towers in Chicago usually start at 500 or 600 but rise in costs to over $900 a month within 5 years.

BTW, I own in San Francisco as well, so I don't mean to hijack this with "Chicago", but I just thought this info. may be interesting to consider.

Posted by: anoninLincolnPark at May 7, 2009 2:26 PM

Given the nature of construction in Chicago, one can reasonably assume maintenance/repair work will be needed. At least on the older buildings.

Posted by: JB at May 7, 2009 2:39 PM

I am personally boycotting every thread containing the word "Chicago" from now on.

Posted by: anonn at May 7, 2009 2:42 PM

I wonder if some of the commercial space could be converted into condos or apartments. Even though the market's tanked it might be an easier sell than office space.

Posted by: Salarywoman at May 7, 2009 2:50 PM

But Chicago is cool! That's all I've been hearing non stop since 2006!

Posted by: sf at May 7, 2009 4:21 PM

HOA dues include insurance, which might run $0.05 to $0.15 per square foot on a monthly basis. My guess is that reserves are a large portion of the monthly.

The small number of residential units probably has a lot to do with it. I believe their lobby is separate from the office building lobby so the cost of the receptionist and lobby maintenance would belong completely to the homeowners.

The large chunk of vacant space in the office floors is a non-issue. The owner of the office portion is still responsible for their monthly assessments.

Posted by: SausalitoRes at May 7, 2009 5:22 PM

11:22 - you are correct, I remember that poster as well - not very smart and obviously not effective.

Posted by: pdt at May 7, 2009 5:34 PM

SFR represented the buyer on this purchase. The condominium was in inpeccable original condition with fine views, doorman and additional storage outside of the unit.

Our offer was made after reviewing South & Beach Ricon Hill highrises recent solds. Current sales prices at the Infinity and Rincon Hill, coupled with an underlying concern highrise prices in the area may remain unstable in the near future, influenced our offer.

Regarding HOA fees, buildings whihc staff their lobby the HOA fees generally brushes up against the $1000 a month price point. You are paying for people. People are pricey, but they are so worth it.

At that height, balconies are very, very windy. So additional interior space is a good trade off.

Posted by: Kathleen at May 8, 2009 10:57 AM

What, are the balconies not glassed in?? I have a balcony this high up outside my office. It's glassed in with 12-foot glass at the edge and it's not windy at all. Just a nice breeze.

Posted by: shza at May 8, 2009 3:16 PM

I've seen those units - no way is more interior space worth giving up those balconies. Not even close. Wind or not (I don't remember, but I don't think they are glassed in), those balconies are amazing.

Posted by: lolcat_94123 at May 9, 2009 3:30 PM

I saw several units in this building. More listings came up recently. I wanted to check socketsite to see what others say about the building. My impression was HoA dues are too high and does not include Parking. They have pending assessments. We were offered a discount if we let the concierge/manager represent us in the sale. She was also representing the seller. We saw red flags and lost interest. HoA has to put its act together and hire a professional management team which does not do real estate sales in the building. The entry to the building adjacent to public housing is not attractive and makes it look like a class B building.

Posted by: SteveA at February 9, 2012 12:13 PM

You've identified a big conflict of interest of this building's HOA manager. When you're representing a seller and managing the HOA then there's incentive to cook the books to make the fees look artificially low. The HOA members shouldn't allow that though it is possible that they do not realize the peril.

Posted by: The Milkshake of Despair at February 9, 2012 1:09 PM

This building has big conflict of interest issues. There are 5 units for sale by the same listing agent who lives in the building indicating lack of competition. Units for sale are overpriced. One bedroom unit next door to 2 br 3801 (sold at $930K in 2009) is priced at $899K. The owners must be morons for letting one agent get all the listings in the building. They have spent more than a $million to remodel the lobby a few years ago. Seems like they are remodeling again.They have no amenities and no parking but HoA dues are $1070 and they have pending assessments. This building is doomed. I will not be surprised if more overpriced units come on the market listed by the same listing agent. I wondered why they have garden furniture in the meeting room? LOL.

Posted by: TBFeld at March 11, 2012 9:50 PM

333 Bush reduced HoA dues this year below $1000. The listing agent of a unit we were interested in said that the HoA has a Board Member Treasurer who is an expert in economics and that she managed association finances so well that the dues were reduced. However when we visited the building last week we learned that the woman who used to be the Treasurer is no longer a board member. Without this woman It is questionable how well their association will do and if the dues reduction is sustainable.

Posted by: SFCatch at January 18, 2013 5:18 PM

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