December 17, 2008
1018-1020 Pine Street: Eight Contemporary
As we wrote three months ago:
As far as we know, 1018-1020 Pine Street is slated to be eight units (condos) with seven (possibly eight) parking spaces. In terms of any other details, we don't know...But we will keep you plugged-in.
As a plugged-in tipster writes today: "I think I know what might be happening." Another luxury new development is skipping the sales office to go the rental route (currently asking $2800-$4250/mo, parking for $200). At least for now.
∙ 1018-1020 Pine Street: Eight Contemporary Condos Coming Soon [SocketSite]
∙ $3300 / 2br - Luxury condos! 8 Brand New units! MODERN [Craigslist]
∙ The SocketSite Scoop And Rumor Confirmed: Artani Suspending Sales [SocketSite]
∙ The Scoop: Argenta (1 Polk) On The Market As An Apartment Building [SocketSite]
First Published: December 17, 2008 4:00 PM
Comments from "Plugged In" Readers
Good news, and of course no surprise.
Rent declines should accelerate from here on out. I would guess that the lowest end housing might show some relative strength, as many have to downscale.
Posted by: LMRiM at December 17, 2008 4:35 PM
who is going to pay 3300 for a 2bdr in the tenderloin?
Posted by: spencer at December 17, 2008 4:43 PM
who is going to pay 3300 for a 2bdr in the tenderloin?
What does the Tenderloin have to do with this property? Try to stay on topic Spencer.
Posted by: Brutus at December 17, 2008 4:49 PM
Spencer - I asked the same thing when I checked rents in my old neighborhood. Studios in the 14th/Mission area are now $1500. I would consider the street life to be as colorful on Mission between 14th and 16th as the TL.
Posted by: Eric in SF at December 17, 2008 4:52 PM
They say the TL is Nob Hill's North Beach.
Posted by: sf at December 17, 2008 5:27 PM
1018 Pine is a block away from Grace Cathedral, two blocks from the Fairmont. I don't know what the block looks like up close, but it's not the part of SF I think of as the Tenderloin.
Posted by: Tony at December 17, 2008 5:47 PM
vanness to mason
pine to market
this is the tenderloin boundary in my book.
pine barely qualifies but it does for me.
I can't imagine paying more than 1800/mo for a 2bdr in this area
Posted by: spencer at December 17, 2008 6:12 PM
Spencer - you need to get out more. The TL boundary used to be Pine when I lived on Nob Hill back in '94-'95, but it's easily moved down a few blocks now that the Polk Street corridor has cleaned up a bit. Sutter Street is also seeing a resurgence in bars, nightclubs, and restaurants.
Posted by: Fishchum at December 17, 2008 6:20 PM
I do like the bookshelves in the stairway.
Posted by: diemos at December 17, 2008 6:40 PM
The Tenderloin/Nob Hill boundary follows the contour lines of Nob Hill, northwest to southeast.
You can have an argument about exactly which contour line defines the present boundary, but anyone who tells you it runs west-east on Pine or Bush or even Sutter is just wrong.
"Shopping Carts Roll Downhill"
Posted by: theo at December 17, 2008 7:04 PM
The contour lines only trend northwest to southeast to the west of Leavenworth. East of there, the trend changes to southwest to northeast. Goegraphically, this is the "correct way" to define Nob Hill. Socially, the east-west streets are not a bad proxy for the division, with each street further south becoming successively more "dubious" especially at night.
Posted by: Amen Corner at December 17, 2008 7:44 PM
this is why there's Tendernob!
Posted by: condoshopper at December 17, 2008 8:01 PM
I'm still confused as to how a place ONE BLOCK from the VERY TOP of Nob Hill could not be considered a part of Nob Hill. This place is literally one block from Grace Cathedral.
This is more "Nob Hill" than Spencer's place is "Pacific Heights" since his place is several blocks from the highest of the heights.
Posted by: Brutus at December 17, 2008 8:05 PM
Whether or not this place is in the TL is irrelevant. Pine is a superfreeway and this place will enjoy all the benefits of traffic roaring by during the evening rush hour, including six Muni express lines.
Posted by: Jeffrey W. Baker at December 17, 2008 8:31 PM
Jeffrey W. Baker is sort of right. Pine is a busy street, but that part of Pine is flat to downhill. In terms of noise it makes a huge difference to not live on an uphill section of Pine/Bush.
It does suck not being able to open your windows because of car noise; how thick the window glass is doesn't matter.
For a 2Bd/2Ba, I think this is marginally overpriced for the area now. For 6 months from now, it's way overpriced.
Posted by: scurvy at December 17, 2008 10:15 PM
This is another place designed for a different era, when you could slap up any place in any crappy area, put in a couple of thousand of dollars in top of the line appliances that none of the yuppies who can afford to throw their money away like that will ever use, call it a "luxury" development and sell it for $1000 psf, as long as you kept the square footage small enough to be under the mortgage deduction limit with $0 down.
I can hear the sales team now: "What? You can't hear yourself think, cough, cough. Oh, pay no attention to all that traffic, Mr. and Mrs. Yuppie No Savings Zero Down Liar Loan Option Arm Buyers, think of all the Jiffy Pop you'll be popping on this $15,000 stove!"
Now, the only thing those locations are good for is rentals. No one will actually pay anywhere near the psf price intended. I doubt they'll rent for that price on that street in a recession. In a few years, that $50,000 kitchen will at least get used by the Section 8 tenants who will be living there.
Time was, they used to at least try to sell these. Look at Esprit Park, bless their hearts. Now they just head straight to rentals, like some bad movie bypassing the movie theaters and heading straight to DVD.
Posted by: tipster at December 17, 2008 10:34 PM
Overpriced, sure, but Tenderloin?? What's next, Lombard = TL? I was just having this conversation earlier tonight.
It seems the more suburban/closed-minded one is, the higher the northern boundary of the TL is to that person.
That block is a little quiet if anything and contextually this building works fairly well. This coming from a habitual modernism-hater.
Posted by: gjg21 at December 18, 2008 2:39 AM
I spent many years living on blocks (see parens) in the neighborhoods in question: Nob Hill (Calif. btw. Jones and Taylor); "Lower Nob Hill" (Bush btw. Jones and Taylor); and The Tenderloin (O'Farrell btw. Jones and Hyde). This address on Pine is in no way the Tenderloin but rather Lower Nob Hill. Indeed, the traffic is very heavy, and that particular block isn't very appealing. This address is close to the steps on Taylor leading up to Huntington Square, but the proximity to the backside of the monolithic Masonic Auditorium, garage of Gramercy Towers and some Academy of Art buildings make this block anything but quaint. It is a bit of a freeway and doesn't offer much for the pedestrian.
Posted by: seehsee at December 18, 2008 6:25 AM
gjg21 wrote: "It seems the more suburban/closed-minded one is, the higher the northern boundary of the TL is to that person."
Spencer has derailed dozens of threads this way, BTW. Best to ignore, at this point.
Posted by: Dan at December 18, 2008 7:33 AM
let's just call it Tendernob adjacent. that'll make everybody happy!
Posted by: ex SF-er at December 18, 2008 8:18 AM
I used to live around the corner. This is not TL or even Tendernob. No homeless or shopping carts.The hills are steep. The tourists can't handle it. The homeless don't bother. You do get good exercise just walking around the neighborhood though.
Posted by: missiondweller at December 18, 2008 10:41 AM
this is NOT nob hill. it's the tendernob/lower nob hill/"downtown" (whatever that means). there is a difference. the neighborhood quickly deteriorates the further south you go.
here are the definitions:
as for safety, pine is okay, bush is iffy, and sutter is definitely bad. i don't see anything wrong with calling sutter part of the TL even if it technically isn't (since it is, functionally).
Posted by: yao at December 18, 2008 11:35 AM
^^^That's just the MLS definition. Realtors aren't the only ones that get a say in what a "neighborhood" constitutes. Here's another boundary:
Posted by: anon at December 18, 2008 11:53 AM
lower pacific heights = western addition
tendernob = lowed nob hill = tenderloin
the other defintions were created by realtors, business owners and tourism promoters. I ahve lived and spent a lot of time in these areas. the crime and homeless population are especially high, even for SF.
I am 100% urbanite and have never ever lived in a suburb in my life. just calling a spade a spade.
Posted by: spencer at December 18, 2008 11:58 AM
also, Dan, i don't see how commenting on a neighborhood derails a thread. the quality of the neighborhood very much affects the prices and desirability of real estate
Posted by: spencer at December 18, 2008 12:00 PM
the MLS definition seems fine to me and certainly better than the about.com one. anyone who actually lives/works in the area knows the about.com definition is functionally incorrect. the character change from washington to post is as disparate as it gets in SF.
Posted by: yao at December 18, 2008 12:06 PM
who cares if it's called TL or Nob Hill; there's no consensus anyway. The only thing that should matter is what characteristics this street/block exhibits. Nobody thinks it's as good as Taylor+Clay but it's not as bad as Taylor+Turk either.
Posted by: condoshopper at December 18, 2008 12:14 PM
yao - true, but the fact that "Nob Hill" would only start at the peak of the hill and run down one side seems a bit odd too, no? My personal view puts Nob Hill down to Bush, Tendernob down to the block between Post/Geary, TL after that.
Posted by: anon at December 18, 2008 12:31 PM
anon, i think there's a difference between "nob hill" the hill and "nob hill" the neighborhood. these days i would say it's more a hill of pretension that the rich folk are perched on than an actual hill per se. sorta like there are no more cows in cow hollow or hunters in hunter's point (or maybe a different kind of hunter?)
anyhow, i think your delineations between the three areas are pretty good approximations barring any specific definitions.
Posted by: yao at December 18, 2008 1:26 PM
I don't know anything about the actual boundaries over there, but I do know the connotations.
Perhaps we can agree on one thing: the hapless developer thought it was Nob Hill, and the Mr. Market told him it was the Tenderloin :)
Posted by: LMRiM at December 18, 2008 2:58 PM
Tenderloin Smenderloin. Market this baby as Nob Hill and this building goes for $5 Million plus easy! It's a non-issue. Ka-Ching.
Posted by: TrendyLoin at December 18, 2008 3:18 PM
Love the doors to nowhere.
Posted by: Salarywoman at December 18, 2008 5:38 PM
FWIW I like the look of the building a lot. Who wants to live in a stuccoid box in SOMA? So it's technically the TLoin, so what..It's Pine Street -not Eddy, we live in a "City" with a lot of desirable and undesirable things mixed together.
Shopping carts, pigeons, cardboard shanties and dirt, but all within walking distance to work. Move to the burbs if you want a yard and some crown moulding.
Posted by: vonT at December 19, 2008 4:16 PM
I live next door to this eye sore. They spent over two years building it, they went against many building codes. One being, they built right up against 3 of my windows so all I see now is their wall. Their windows poke out just enough to block my view of looking out onto the street. The garage has an alarm that goes off almost every half hour.
I don't understand how something this ugly made it into this neighborhood, it belongs in SOMA.
Does anyone know who the property managers are?
Posted by: Wren at April 20, 2010 11:28 AM