September 29, 2008
A Quick Cut (And Case Of Cash Back?) For 310 Townsend #308
Priced by the developer at $611,000 when the building first opened in February of 2007, 310 Townsend #308 closed escrow in June of 2007 with a reported contract price of $617,500 (no word on whether we're talking upgrades or another case of “cash back”).
Back on the market two weeks ago with an asking price of $629,000 (a sale at which would have represented average annual appreciation of roughly 1.4% over the past sixteen months), the list price has since been cut to $599,000.
∙ Listing: 310 Townsend #308 (1/1) - $599,000 [MLS]
∙ 310 Townsend: Available And Selling [SocketSite]
∙ Can Bank Owned Comps Kill (Values)? 246 2nd Street #502 Returns [SocketSite]
First Published: September 29, 2008 6:00 PM
Comments from "Plugged In" Readers
Not a bad looking unit. Light well is mixed blessing - no view and less light but less noise as well. Good location for public transportation but lack of parking is going to hurt.
Posted by: Michael at September 29, 2008 6:35 PM
Purchased for 617k a year ago & on sale today for 599k? Uh-oh SF, your immunity card just got revoked. Here comes the flood! All you that sat back and laughed at Noah Renter for the last 4 years are doomed... doomed.
Posted by: smarty at September 29, 2008 7:34 PM
Sweet I've got my highwaters on.
Posted by: sparky-the-bear at September 29, 2008 7:58 PM
Still grossly overpriced. Want a good comp? Look downstairs. #105 in the same building is still for sale by the developer. Brand new, never lived in. 2 bedroom, 2 bath with over 1,200 square feet listed for $720K and still not moving. That's roughly $578 per square foot for #105 vs. $745 per square foot for this unit.
Posted by: Dude at September 30, 2008 9:01 AM
I could see this property going sub $500K
Posted by: spencer at September 30, 2008 9:56 AM
I could see this property going below $400K, but I still like it. Overall, though, the building seems to have failed to meet its potential. By paying a large amount up front it had to be carved up into units that are just a bit smaller than they might have been.
Posted by: Mole Man at September 30, 2008 10:04 AM
Sparky: #105 in the same building is like living in a dungeon. No light at all. Small living space and all the 1200 square feet seems to be in the wrong places such as the bathrooms.
Posted by: T-Money at September 30, 2008 10:08 AM
I am an owner of one of the units at 310 Townsend. I really love the way the place looks with the brick and timber, but I've had acoustical issues which according to the developer is normal. I can hear my upstairs neighbor talking. The sound of her walking barefoot upstairs is loud enough to wake me up from deep sleep, and I'm someone who is able to sleep through the sirens and bums yelling outside. I am also able to hear noise from my downstairs neighbor as well as next door neighbor. According to Bruce Shannon, the developer's manager, this is normal in condos. I've lived in other condos before, yet I have yet to experience noise at this level. I have also requested to get a copy the acoustic test results on more than one occasion since I was told that my unit meets compliance, but I have yet to see the acoustical test results or hear back from the developer. One of my neighbors have even recently suggested getting all the affected neighbors together and suing the developer. I've been holding back from suing the developer for the last few months even though I'm very angry about how little empathy they have about the noise problem I'm experiencing, because I am worried that a lawsuit affecting my resale value. The noise is so bad that I'm seriously thinking about selling no(even though I might take a lost) or renting it out. I just want to get a copy of the test report showing compliance so I can sell or rent out the place without fear of a lawsuit from the future buyer or tenant.
What would you guys do in this situation?
Posted by: Can't sleep at 310 Townsend at September 30, 2008 11:57 AM
I like what they've done with interiors but the overall package (parking, location) seems like a tough sell.
Posted by: pwb at September 30, 2008 12:21 PM
Hey Can't Sleep--
Where can I get more info about acoustic compliance regulations in SF? My place sounds (no pun intended) like yours.
Posted by: SFRenter at September 30, 2008 12:35 PM
Can't sleep, that's not normal, especially for new condos.
I lived in condos before (built late 90's), and I could hear nothing from my neighbors.
Posted by: John at September 30, 2008 12:48 PM
Lived in Opera Plaza for a year and apparently the only time people could hear me practicing my cello was when they went by my door. The soundproofing between units was such that I could practice at 5:30 am without disturbing the neighbors, and this is apparently the case with most other units in that building. (Other places aren't so good; in the Carrilon I used a heavy practice mute to keep it quiet.)
Since we're looking for a place in SF I'm very interested in hearing about sound isolation at 310 Townsend.between units.
Posted by: amatuer at September 30, 2008 1:51 PM
Can't sleep: just date her.
Posted by: San FronziScheme at September 30, 2008 1:59 PM
Hey: can't sleep. your situation is not normal.
I live at new condo building at 1600 webster street built 3yrs ago. I am a very light sleeper. I have a family living next to my bedroom and they have baby crying loudly day and night. I did not hear anything. I knew it because the young couple next door thought the baby's cry disturb me at night and they came to say sorry to me a few times but truly I did not hear any thing. the guy living upstair, I knew him...he said he turned the music loud one night having party and thought I was awoked by that. he tried to say sorry to me..but I didnot hear any thing...so I think a new building with good quality...you should not hear those noise.
Posted by: light sleeper at September 30, 2008 4:55 PM
to San FronziScheme- she has a boyfriend already. I know this because the noise transferred through the carpeted bedroom is crystal clear and I've been awakened several times by sounds that I'm sure they weren't interested in sharing.
to pwb- I actually think the location is very convenient with grocery stores, restaurants, and public transportation all within short walking distance. Lack of parking space is an issue, especially during baseball season. I have deeded parking but it's tough for friends to visit when there are events at the ballpark.
to SF Renter- I'm trying to get a copy of the acoustical test and talk further with the lawyer to see if it meets compliance. It may not take much to meet acoustical compliance in SF because of the many older buildings that exist in the city. However, they renovated the building just 2 years ago and charged a price of a premium building. It's sort of like buying a luxury car that only strive to meet minimum safety requirements. It could be compliant, but you would expect more with the name brand and price tag. One of the main reasons had purchased my condo is because I had thought Santa Fe Partners built quality unique buildings, but I have now lost all respect for them and have no faith that my acoustical issues will be addressed satisfactorily.
Posted by: can's sleep at 310 Townsend at September 30, 2008 11:46 PM
Why do most buildings in Chicago and New York have concrete between floors and masonary walls between units, but here in San Francisco, buildings are just cheap drywall, wood and carpet?
Posted by: curious at October 1, 2008 9:45 AM
I agree. You shouldn't hear that much noise. I just inspected my condo at Esprit Park and that place is still bustling with construction activity but when I closed the windows it was very quiet in the unit. There were people working in adjacent units and I couldn't hear them. But my unit is not in one of the upgraded brick and timber buildings. It's in one of the new construction buildings. Considering 310 Townsend is a upgraded brick and timber that might be the main issue.
Posted by: Boo at October 1, 2008 11:02 AM
Whoa, thanks for the heads-up. I was interested in #105, but hearing about noise issues could really be a deal-breaker for me (I'm an acoustician...)
Posted by: jbd at October 2, 2008 11:31 AM
I can only really speak for issues that I experienced with my condo unit. However, my downstairs neighbor has complained in the past that the noise of me walking barefoot in my condo unit was fairly loud in their unit. Someone from the developer told me that my side of the building used a different construction crew than the rest of the building, so the problems I'm experiencing may not affect #105. Either way, I would not recommend buying any property built by Santa Fe Partners because of the poor experience I've had in dealing with them.
Posted by: can't sleep at 310 Townsend at October 3, 2008 2:58 AM
Am I the only one who thinks it would be a good idea to first rent a place in the building you like before buying it so that you can see how well it works before committing to a purchase?
Posted by: diemos at October 3, 2008 6:08 AM
Or at least camp out in the place for a night :)
Posted by: chuckie at October 3, 2008 8:53 AM
Can't Sleep: I lived in a similar type of building--brick-and-beam warehouse conversion loft--back in Boston. The noise situation was similar to yours and the first wave of residents in my building sued the developer, who ended up settling--they were given the option of a cash payment or having them come in and do additional sound insulation in the ceilings. Most of the noise is because the exposed brick, ceilings, beams and ductwork make superb sound conductors. To give you an idea, the unit I was in looked like this:
Good luck with your situation. I can't provide any additional details because all this happened in my building before I lived in it. I was a renter in mine and my landlord chose to take cash and did not do the insulation.
Posted by: wormwooder at October 3, 2008 12:40 PM
Hi can't sleep, sorry to hear about your problems. I also live in the building and find it to be pretty quiet. We have one room with steel beams and you can sometimes hear the neighbors in there and we can hear people as they walk by in the hallway, but I rarely, if ever, hear noises from my upstairs/downstairs/next door neighbors. SanteFe can be difficult to work with, but they seem more slow then anything else. Best of luck.
Posted by: 310owner at October 13, 2008 2:31 PM
The California Building Code (Division II Appendix Chapter 12) includes minimum requirements for indoor noise levels due to outdoor sources, and for acoustic separation between adjacent dwelling units in multi-family housing.
Airborne sound insulation between dwelling units, or between dwelling units and common spaces through party walls and floor/ceilings: Required to achieve an STC of 50 (min.)
Impact insulation (footfall) through floor/ceilings: Required to achieve an IIC of 50
Indoor Noise due to outdoor sources: Required to achieve a DNL of 45
Posted by: anon at October 13, 2008 3:05 PM