The listing for 2737 Clay prominently notes: “approved plans and permits for a major remodel” (and not so prominently, recently reduced $200,000).
And while we have no doubt those plans call for overhauling the kitchen (with which we can’t argue), we have a feeling they don’t call for saving that stove (with which we can).
∙ Listing: 2737 Clay Street (6/5) – $3,250,000 [MLS]
I love it! I wouldn’t change a thing!
That stove is hot… no pun intended. This is a great location, but I think buyers are staying away from fixers and flippers are running scared. It’s a no brainer to buy this house at 2.99. I haven’t seen the inside, but I think you could do a decent remodel for 500-700k and have an absolutely fantastic property.
I agree! It looks great. You know, the cycle of style will inevitably shift at some point, and stainless etc. will not be “required to sell your house” as it supposedly is now. A “warm, simple, human and pleasant” kitchen may be desired, just around the corner. If you look at economic/social indicators, desires may turn towards more relatable, possibly nostalgic signifiers, pointing to a more “simple” time. People will revolt when they feel pushed to the corner to have the “latest” look (which will, ironically, create a whole other look that will be coveted.)
(I meant, I agree with the first poster–“I wouldn’t change a thing”.)
The tiles look like they’re in good shape. I would change the kitchen pulls and hardware but that kitchen is a lot easier on the eyes than half of the high end kitchens with all the stainless steel appliances.
I took a look at this house on Sunday. It has great potential, but doesn’t seem to be as big as all that given the sloped attic rooms and in-law in the basement.
It would probably cost $1.4M+ to fix it up to the level of the submitted plans. Then you could have 4,500+/- sq ft for $4.5M. At that price a developer would have trouble breaking even, since $1,000/sq ft is currently problematic.
That leaves an owner/user who has to go through the major remodel all the while knowing that prices in SF are continuing to slide. If he waits he might get a better deal on this house, decreasing the chance of an eventual loss when he sells, or increasing the chance of finding a “done” house for the same $/sq ft.
I don’t think 1000 per foot is problematic for this street. If the house were a legitimate 4500 sft, and in perfect shape, you could easily ask over 4.5 million right now and probably get it. It’s a far superior location than Malin’s Fillmore listing. Multiple homes sold for 3.3-3.6 million over on California St. this spring, so I’d argue Clay is worth a good 1+ million more.
That kitchen is adorable. I hate cleaning tile but its so cute here that I don’t think I could bring myself to touch any part of that kitchen.
I think the kitchen in this house would work well. Why do we keep pulling out perfectly fine kitchens? That just adds to the landfills. My 1970 kitchen is just the same as the day it was built except for a builtin microwave, and it all works fine for me. My husband and I eat very well.
The only thing that really looks great to me is the staging and the paint, both of which are fairly valueless. I’m just skeptical of what seems to be a new marketing technique – “we have plans, permits, etc so you can turn this blank canvas into anything you want.” Problem with that is if the numbers worked out then the current owner woulda already followed through.
very interesting. I like homes where the kitchen is not fixed up. And this one isn’t so ugly so you can live with it for a few years until you save the $$ for the remodel you want.
I like this kitchen. Of course when I was looking for a place I wouldn’t even bother to go see one if it had stainless steel appliances. They just look so so to me when new and hidious after a few years.
Major remodel? I wouldn’t touch much neither.
I wouldn’t break the old feel of this place to “update” the look of the interior. Once it’s torn down it cannot be brought back from the landfill by the next owner…
I like the kitchen too–there’s a lot to work with there. A restored stove similar to this one sells for $4k or more. I feel strongly that stainless steel has been a cliche for years and is well on its way to being the new Harvest Gold.
There’s stainless and stainless.
There’s the “Viking professional stainless” and there’s the “Kenmore consumer trap stainless”. Not the same price range and definitely not the same quality.
No way, stainless isn’t the Harvest Gold of today. It is clearly the Avocado Green of today. 🙂
Kenmore ain’t that bad : my Kenmore washer lasted 20 years before we finally got rid of it (for aesthetic reasons !). And my Kenmore stove cooks up food just as tasty and as easily as the highest end Euro brand of the moment.
I am so glad to hear there are other people sick of stainless appliances and restaurant style stoves. I covet the pull out stove from my 70s youth (similar to Graceland and Bewitched kitchens) and when ready to remodel my current kitchen would rather go for a great look from the past than the boring, ubiquitous dark wood cabinets, huge impractical appliances and cold granite counters of today. Please save us from stale, staged houses with their perfectly placed pillows. Are there still people out there who’d rather look at an empty house than a staged one? Count me in the former group.
Aren’t Viking ranges sort of like BMWs? They’re a status symbol this year, and something you wouldn’t be seen with in 10 years? (note: I have had two aging BMWs, and loved them). Anyway, even a Viking range retails between $4-9k. Where are the figures of $700k-1.4mm coming from? All I can see it needing is maybe some landscaping in the back yard, refinishing the wood floors…
This place has an amazing location, and it’s beautiful. I am endlessly puzzled by how arkward, über-modern, flip properties are selling for so much more than this… i am apparently in the minority, but all i see in those is a lost history, and setting the timer to zero on datedness, which is particularly odd for 100+ year-old places that have long ago become timeless and classic.
my childhood home had the wall-mounted stove with the sliding door (in tomato red). lovely.
I think some of you have been watching too many re-runs of the Donna Reed show, Father Knows Best, and Leave it to Beaver.
I’ll stick with Rocky and Bullwinkle..myself.
Wow! I’m not alone! I too am so tired of these Dwell-interiors. Whenever I see one I immediately feel it’s the home of someone who doesn’t trust their own taste, someone who’s only comfortable with brand names. The BMW syndrome. They need the branding. Don’t get me wrong–I love modern–but I don’t think of these Dwell-style interiors as modern. I think that (like Harvest Gold) it won’t be long before they’re considered Contempo.
The rooms in this house have such beautiful proportions. It would be a crime to rework them in any major way.
Brand name oversaturation commentary is an internet-only phenomenon. It does not happen in real life. Try selling a $3M house without a Sub-Zero some time. Nobody wants to hear about how the fridge chosen is a much better buy for the money, and that the money was (better) spent elsewhere. On, like, hardwood floors. Or, “Where’s the Wolf Range” and it’s a glorified galley kitchen. Dwell sells.
Although there are chopped pillows in abundance, I would not change a thing also. Perhaps, we are seeing the beginning of the end of countless homes transformed by flippers into DWELL residences and instead seeing homes come on the market that are presented as places to live and raise a family, instead of some fictional modern cocktail party crashpad.
yeah, this kitchen is fine as is, except maybe I’d carefully add an accent color, somehow.
The problem, as fluj alluded to, this is a 3.2 million dollar house, not a charming little fixer. The current fridge area is small for a 6/5 (!), so something needs to be done about that.
The good news is you won’t have to tear out someone else’s lousy remodel, but it appears you are already paying up for it (I don’t know if 3.2m is reasonable around here). Comparing it to the rest of the house, it’s almost like they ran out of money before they got to the kitchen.
c’mon guys, I have to side with fluj and dub dub. It’s fine to be all sentimental about grandma’s kitchen but you guys aren’t representative of a buyer for this home – otherwise it wouldn’t have been cut by 200K already. Again, if a remodel would make sense financially at this price, the current owners (who bothered to pull a permit) would’ve followed through.
The stove could still look great as part of a modern kitchen – no need to landfill it. But will anyone pay that much money and not have a stove hood? And want to clean a million grout lines on their counter?
Do you really think the 2008 staging matches the vintage look of the home? No way. The staging and paint were the lowest cost ways to dress it up. Anybody who loves the vintage look better be prepared for ancient wiring and plumbing too – notice the lack of electrical outlets? And no pictures of a bathroom? Yep it’s just like Grandma’s house behind the walls too.
I was only mentioning that styles will shift. And based on the comments, maybe that shift is coming. After all–isn’t it going to be those people who are buying the $3.2 mil house who will go after the next big thing (post-stainless?) Probably not today, or tomorrow. But it will happen.
sorry one more thing – yet ANOTHER 2-unit building cleverly disguised as a SFH.
beautiful building with lots of potential – let’s just get the facts straight and the price right.
This place is priced for 2006 or 2007. It could sell at this price, but this is a great example of a prime home in a prime location with subpar finishing that is not moving. People with this kind of money don’t want a project and will pay for for the finished result. Again, I have to agree with Sleepiguy here. The ask on this place is still too high for a developer IMO. I don’t think a developer would touch this place for anything over $2.5, maybe $2.6. But I do think that this place could easily fetch $4.5 or higher if done really well.
I’ll also add that the stainless trend isn’t going anywhere. The kitchens of your past were poorly designed and ugly. The kitchen has evolved and isn’t going to regress, but it may continue to evolve. 🙂
@sleepiguy and eddy,
I’ve been lately watching the pac hts market trying to understand what sells. It seems obvious so far that you want to be north of Cal and west of Fillmore (preferably Divisadero). There is a big premium of being north of Broadway, usually due to views. The latter location seems to be similarly strong to presidio hts.
I’m talking about “normal” homes, 4K-6K sqft on similar size lots and not mansions.
It seems that prime location can fetch $1200-$1300 psf where this one can get $1000 psf if remodeled to anywhere near Malin’s Fillmore house.
Can you guys confirm?
$3.2 million seems like a bargain to me. It’s a big house, with a good sized yard, parking, etc… but the location, facing Alta Plaza Park, and the fact that it’s relatively intact are the primary appeal. In that price range, you’re looking at places that have been redone to look be adequately ‘high end’, if bland.
given the choice, would it be really anything to labor over? If a developer buys it, Dwells it out, and charges $1-2mm for the honor, that’s so much less appealing than buying it in present condition and doing something arguably more tasteful, for a small fraction of that, not to mention the presumed taxes involved in a much higher purchase price.
The staging is all wrong, and some of the paint too, but who cares? Does anyone see staging as anything other than staging?
It’s a nice stove. It was probably the stainless steel Thermador of its time and would look great restored and in a remodeled kitchen.
Restored and remodeled are the key words. I don’t see a dishwasher or any electrical outlets in that kitchen. And we spend a lot of time in kitchens- seems a shame to spend it in a cramped little space originally designed for servants.
“But will anyone pay that much money and not have a stove hood? And want to clean a million grout lines on their counter?”
Anyone paying that kind of money for this place isn’t going to be cleaning their own kitchen…
***
Styles & tastes change, stainless steel is not some magic material that will never go out of style. With even low end remodels and starter homes getting cheap stainless steel appliances these days eventually the rich will need to come up with something else to set their places apart from the riff raff.
@someone — west of laguna, north of california and east of Divis are all great areas. Homes can go for anywhere between 650 tp 2000 psf based on size, location, views and ‘state’ of finish. Hard to get over $1100 if no views no matter what or where your house is located. Certainly not going to see over $1200 for something w/o views unless there is some other unique quality such as double lot, huge parking.
The Pacifc/Broadway/Vallejo west of Fillmore are ‘gold coast’ type properties with north side homes w/views commanding the highest prices. South side homes are 350-1000 psf less than their north facing neighbors.
Just drive or better yet, walk, those areas and you’ll get a great sense of what’s killer.
Good luck going a block in any direction w/o seeing a wrapped home under development or a pending project. In 10 years you will be hard pressed to find a home that hasn’t been totally redone in PH.
Milkshake,
Having used a Viking a full year, I had to painfully switch to a GE appliance last year. I can tell you the cooking is a bit different (maybe it’s the 6 burners that allow more space when you’re not using all of them), but the baking is incredibly different in professional equipment. The cleaning is also like night and day. These are made to be intensely used every day and thoroughly cleaned. I’m afraid to bend the metal on my GE anytime I do a deep cleaning.
Fronzi – No doubt a good commercial range/oven will be nicer to use. I did a stint working in commercial kitchens during my teenage years and really loved how the equipment was sturdy and easy to clean. I’d love to build a kitchen around commercial gear but alas I don’t have the final say on those decisions 🙂
My complaint was regarding Euro style residential equipment. It looks cool but is no better than domestic stuff. Much more expensive and waaaay harder to find replacement parts.
Actually I think your problem is with GE. I gave up on GE consumer products long ago. Yeah, they make great power station generators, machine guns, and atomic bomb components, but they suck on consumer items.
I agree that it takes Viking/SubZero etc. to sell a home in this price bracket today.
I’m really old, and it’s interesting to note how different the attitude of the rich is now. In the 1950s $3M would be like $20M is today. Back then a buyer in that bracket could care less what the kitchen looked like. They’d only make a change if their cook requested it.
I guess I’m in the minority then because no place I’ve bought or made an offer on (including several offers during this latest granite/stainless era) had high end kitchen appliances. Some even had appliances that I would have immediately replaced.
Maybe I made no offers on those stainless/subZero places because they seemed overpriced. Who wants to pay $20,000 for a $4000 range/oven ? Not me.
But I guess there are plenty of buyers willing to let sellers appliance shop for them and extract a hefty “commission” on the new equipment. Check out this “seller’s package” aimed right at the quick-flipper : http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/for/722971078.html
Certainly there have to be buyers out there that could afford this property that would tastefully upgrade it. The house is magnificent, and it would be a shame not to preserve all of the beautiful woodwork. Although there aren’t enough of them, I do love the [sideways] electrical outlets. I would upgrade the kitchen to perhaps include more cabinet space, a range hood, new countertops (anything but that tile with a million pieces of grout to be cleaned), but would definitely leave the breakfast booth.
This is a great house! Where can you find a big family house directly on the park for this kind of price? Does need serious upgrades, but when done, this would not be worth a penny under $5 mill. For those who wrongly guessed that the owner decided not to do the work because of the economics, wrong. Both sellers taking jobs in Seattle. Word is that there have been six offers already, all with 3’s in front of them. Five from developers and the sixth from a family. Family decided project was too big for them and the high developer waiting for his current project to sell.