April 27, 2007
Modern High-Rise Living In Older Pacific Heights
A “plugged-in” tipster directs us to a listing in 2200 Sacramento and declares, “Prettiest condo for under $1000/psf I've seen in Pac Heights….” And while it might not have the views or amenities offered by some of the newer developments, it can definitely compete on location and interior (marble counters, limestone floors, custom cabinets, etc.).
UPDATE (6/6): Sold on 5/31/07 for $975,000 (5% over asking).
∙ Listing: 2200 Sacramento #108 (2/2) - $929,000 [MLS]
First Published: April 27, 2007 12:13 PM
Comments from "Plugged In" Readers
And $898 a month in association fees. That's partly why the price is relatively reasonable.
Posted by: Peter at April 27, 2007 1:33 PM
Also, it's on the 1st floor.
[Editor’s Note: Keep in mind that the first floor is approximately three stories above the building's lobby on Sacramento Street.]
Posted by: will_h at April 27, 2007 1:44 PM
If you like 2200 Sacramento, keep a lookout for places for sale at 1998 Broadway. The buildings are similar. No sixteenth floor clubroom, but the deck is a fantastic place to watch the fireworks or the Blue Angles. Classic GGB view. The doorman at 1998 Broadway isn't 24/7, more like 12/7. The only time the cost/sqft hits $1K is when one of the units on the top floors (12-16, say) on the north side goes on the market. Views of the GGB tend to do that to a property's value.
Posted by: Sal at April 27, 2007 2:27 PM
Does that building bulge toward the top like The Summit, or is it an optical illusion?
Posted by: EH at April 27, 2007 3:42 PM
The unit is a flip. It was up for sale about 1-1/2 years ago and sold for $560k per accessor's records. My professional opinion is that they probably put in about $40k in kitchen and bath materials (the upper cabinets appear to be IKEA for about $500. The Dacor oven is a nice piece of machinery for about $5k). Caveat emptor - buy this place, and put over $300k in someone's pocket.
Posted by: rg at April 27, 2007 4:45 PM
I think you’re off by at least 100% on the total cost of the remodel and I wouldn’t consider holding for a year and a half a “flip”. But what I really don’t understand is your “Caveat emptor - buy this place, and put over $300k in someone's pocket” statement. So I’m not supposed to buy a place if the seller stands to make money? That’s ridiculous.
Posted by: Michael at April 27, 2007 6:10 PM
If a seller stands to make that amount of money on such a short holding period, it would certainly gice me pause for though as to whether the asking price was reasonable. Of course, it may simply be that the seller got a big bargain 18 months ago.
Posted by: Amen Corner at April 27, 2007 10:44 PM
A year and a half is most definitely a flip and $40K in IKEA improvements isn't worth $300K increase in a flat market.
Posted by: sarahfan at April 27, 2007 10:47 PM
Great building! Even the residences that don't have views are wonderful because of the location... the park is right there. This is one of the high rise condos in the city that's overlooked -- partly because so many of the residences have not been upgraded.
Posted by: Damion at April 27, 2007 11:06 PM
It is a funny statement indeed to write beware about buying the place because the buyer had the forsight to buy 1.5 years ago and remodel it. The culture here is that 'if I didn't benefit from property, than nobody can.' Guys, if you want to crate wealth and live a comfortable life, you have to take risks.
The fact is, the market has moved up around 20-25% since the beginning of 2005 as a whole in San Francisco. Given this is prime Pac Heights next to Lafayette Park, going from 600K (after your estimated 40K remodel) to 900K isn't that big of a shock, although the HOA fee is relatively high.
When you compare this unit to the overbuilt, and dangerous SOMA area, I'd much rather spend $900K here. I think it sells for around $850K up to potentially asking price. The key here is location, and the park which creates an oasis in the hills. With Fillmore St. just 3 blocks away, this is the most desirable upper end 'affordable' neighborhood to buy for 30+ somethings.
Posted by: prime at April 28, 2007 9:20 AM
One and a half years ago takes us back to towards the end of '05. Going from 600k to 900k is a 50% increase at a time when the SF median has been essentially flat. Hmm...
Posted by: Amen Corner at April 28, 2007 9:41 AM
You hit the nail on the head Amen Corner. This is why medians are very deceiving. The truth of the matter is prices have shot up tremendously since the beginning of 2005, and about 4-8% in 2006, depending on location. Prices haven't stopped appreciating despite all the doom and gloom from the media. If you go out and try and buy any property in a good location, prices will be higher still over 2006 prices.
Socketsite, pls send us an update when this property and the previous properties sell, and for what price. thnx!
Posted by: prime at April 28, 2007 10:27 AM
We're not talking about the beginning of 2005, we're talking about the end, assuming the facts posted earlier are correct. Prices did indeed jump significantly in the first part of '05.
As for medians they can indeed be deceptive _in both directions_ as the Case-Shiller index is currently illustrating.
Posted by: Amen Corner at April 28, 2007 2:23 PM
Btw, an identically-sized unit on the fourth floor sold for $775k in 10/06.
Posted by: Amen Corner at April 28, 2007 2:28 PM
Michael, I'm an architect, so I know what a "remodel" like this will cost. I was being generous. I put "remodel" in quotes because changing out cabinets with cheap stock ones, putting some stainless steel FRONTED appliances in, and a mod bathroom sink is a FLIP, not an upgrade. One and a half years is a flip. If you're doing the work after your day job, it will take that long, and if you hire a cheap contractor, it could take even longer. Not to mention that they're probably expecting it to not sell for a few months and then, they won't even need to pay capital gains.
2005 was the height of the bubble, and even my realtor friend often uses the phrase, "but that was back in 2005!" I believe this place was even listed for high $400k back then. Again, the price/s.f. is just under $1000 and that should be a warning sign, because nothing but the most high-end housing should cost that.
What is wrong with my "caveat emptor"??? Sure, there is nothing wrong with making money, but that is a huge amount of money for a cheaply done job. Sorry for being ethical, but I wanted to make sure that any potential buyer reading Socketsite didn't screw up the rest of their financial life by buying a unit that will depreciate. There IS something wrong when a flipper is trying to screw people into paying a large sum for nothing.
"Guys, if you want to create [sic] wealth and live a comfortable life, you have to take risks." - Prime, there was no "insight" in buying this place a year ago. I looked at it for a potential flip too, but the fact that it was on the first floor, high HOA, and the comps wouldn't allow for much money spent, I thought it wasn't worth it. I, for one, believe that if you're going to flip a property, you should do a good, custom job on the remodel to justify a price hike. Prime, we all know on here that you're made of money, but spending that extra $300k IS a big deal to many of us.
Posted by: rg at April 29, 2007 4:24 PM
RG - Thanks for your post. A couple things: when people refer to 'it's not like 2005', they mean it's not as CRAZY as it was in 2005, which it was indeed as the market probably went up 13-20% depending on neighborhood. However, 2006 prices did go up another 3-8% over the crazy 2005 prices, with a major slowdown in the fall of 2006. But now, things are getting a little frenzy again.
The buyer of this unit saw a fantastic opportunity to buy an undervalued unit 1.5 years ago, and is most certainly going to make more than he bought it for. I remember the same level of doom and goom 1.5 years ago, and if one was diligent, one could have picked off some sellers. We'll just have to wait and see how much this unit goes for. $929K does sound agressive, I agree, but don't try and bash the seller for making money if you yourself thought to buy it and passed. Talking about being 'ethical' is ridiculous. Anything more than $800,000 is a homerun in my opinion, as $200,000 gain is a 32% return in 1.5 years, and 150% on a 20% downpayment while having a place to live. So tell me, how is it that the market is only up 3-6% YoY according to the medians of various datasources?
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Socketsite, please update us with all the final sales prices of homes featured here. Thanks!
p.s. rg, i'm not made of money, i'm just not angry at people who take risks, put in the remodel work, and make money. This is America, not Kabul, where anybody with initiative can do well.
Posted by: Prime at April 29, 2007 5:17 PM
Regarding the "high" HOA fees:
I actually looked at units for sale here and at 1998 Broadway in the early nineties. This was where modern with a view lived at the time. The 2 bedroom units were in the low $200K range, but there was no way to rationalize buying because the HOA fees were MORE THAN MY RENT at the time.
Posted by: redseca2 at April 30, 2007 10:01 AM
The prices of the recently sold units are misleading. A handful of the units were sold a while ago by the builder without going on the open market. (He is very elderly now and wasn't looking to make a lot of money on the units.) Some came with elderly tenants who were renting and who have lifetime leases. This unit may have been one of those. I only wish I had gotten one myself!
Posted by: Lori at April 30, 2007 12:13 PM
Crap, wrong building. My previous comment applied to 2200 Pacific, not 2200 Sacramento. Oops.
Posted by: Lori at April 30, 2007 2:31 PM
I felt the same way as redseca2 a year and a half ago. I LOVE this building. It is exactly my type of modernism and is in a great location. I live just down the street and have drouled over it for years. But, the HOA was more than my rent and to justify a $500k mortgage on top of that was unreasonable, even back then.
My point, Prime, is that this was not an "undervalued" property in 2005, it was just about right. Especially because of the high HOA and the fact it is on the first floor. I love taking "risks", but the numbers didn't work out then as a flip, so to see it back now at TWICE the price but with $500 IKEA cabinets is horribly wrong. I would be embarrassed to have tried it in this way. I posted so that a gullible buyer doesn't fall for it. It's not wrong for someone to make $300k, but it IS wrong to do it like this. So, you ask why do the datasources show a 3-6% rise and this seller is (trying to) make a 32% profit??? BECAUSE THE PROPERTY IS GROSSLY OVERPRICED!
Posted by: rg at April 30, 2007 4:13 PM
RG - 800K is a 32% profit. At 929K asking, that's a 55% profit. I think 800K is a reasonable price for this unit given the HOA and remodel which you don't like.
It is what it is RG. No point fighting it. I'm not a fan of the building. I'm a fan of the other apartments facing the park. Time will tell as the market is will tell us the answer.
Now, if we could just talk about the 3028 Pierce St. condos, where so many thought they wouldn't sell one.... that would be a great topic to revisit! :)
Posted by: prime at April 30, 2007 6:54 PM
Prime, you think 800k is reasonable, why don't you make an offer? It sounds like that you think it is a bargain, so go for it!
Posted by: johnqh at April 30, 2007 8:11 PM
I wish johnqh, but i can't afford such prime property. Besides, I'm with most people on this board and believe we're heading for a great depression! :)
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Posted by: prime at April 30, 2007 9:33 PM
I saw this unit today and I was very pleasantly surprised. I have been looking for what seems like years and have always written off this building given...well...I prefer period details. The floorplan is fantastic and the balcony is something I really valued. Didn't like the entry-way, which made me feel like I was going into a dingy, smoke-filled hospital, but who spends a lot of time in the hall anyway?
Posted by: Hopefulbuyer at May 1, 2007 5:45 PM
P.S. Regarding PRIME's question about 3208 Pierce...Socketsite wrote something about this property in January (http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2007/01/3208_pierce_new_website_and.html) and I've seen it since then. Really liked a lot of the units, although some of them ended up a bit dark. The best units were on the bottom floor, in my opinion, as long as you don't' mind people walking in front of your house (on Pierce) on their way to Chestnut Street. If I could have afforded one of those (bottom, back of house faces courtyard), I would have. Refer you to the Jan article because there are other comments.
Posted by: Hopefulbuyer at May 1, 2007 5:50 PM
Was there a brokers tour today? Interesting how you thought it was better than expectations. I'm taking it that your expectations were low? Do you think it will sell over $800,000 like I gueestimate?
Also, the thread about 3208 Pierce St. is old. I saw a sheet that had 13 out of the 14 units sold, but i'm wondering about the exact price. B/c i remember during their massive launch, there was were X prices, and when I inquired afterwards about a couple units, they RAISED their prices after the open house by 50K-100K.
There was definitely a lot of negativity from this blog per the thread, so i'm surprised there's not a lot of admission or surprise or reaction that all but one have sold.
[Editor’s Note: Try searching on 3208 Pierce. Our last related post was two weeks ago. And as ‘Hopefulbuyer’ notes, please feel free to add value by adding your pricing/availability information to our January update. That way it won’t be old. And now back to 2200 Sacramento...]
Posted by: Prime at May 1, 2007 9:32 PM
Prime thinks that EVERYTHING in SF is reasonable. (I think he's trying to justify his own $300k flip OR he's fearing that his home isn't worth half of what he paid for it). But, Prime, am I wrong or aren't you the one with the high paying job in the office where 80% of employees own, with great fixed mortgages, and everyone enjoyed a 150% salary increase last year? Aren't you always the one bragging about your "initiative" and how it made you rich, while putting down renters who can't afford $800k?
You never have taken me up on that high-end remodel of your luxurious SF pad...
Posted by: rg at May 1, 2007 10:04 PM
I happen to know the person who purchased this unit in 2004. The unit had sat on the market for many months and only he apparently saw the vision of what it could be. I don't know the amount of money that was put into this unit, but it was definitely more than $40,000. Furthermore, he didn't plan to flip - personal changes in his life led to a decision to sell. Is there anything wrong with this scenario? Why are so many people who post to this site so bitter about making a profit in SF real estate?....If you don't think something is worth it's price you don't have to buy - that is a free market for you.
Posted by: InTheKnow at May 2, 2007 8:02 AM
Well said 'InTheKnow'. And thanks for clarifying it was bought 2.5-3years ago, and not 1.5-2 years ago. 850K should be about right. Time well tell!
Posted by: Prime at May 2, 2007 5:15 PM
Here's a comp in the building. Smaller, 1/1.5, better views. In contract.. asking is 795K
Posted by: prime at May 3, 2007 8:09 PM
Thank YOU, In The Know.
I found it languishing on the market in November 2004. It was a total dump. My partner and I bought it without specific intention other than good bones in a great neighborhood. He fixed it up, bought me out, planned to stay a while, changed his mind, put it on the market at a price THE MARKET DETERMINES. Period. Why all the hand wringing about what somebody else does with their home? Geez, get a life.
Posted by: Telegraph Hill Homebody at May 9, 2007 2:33 PM
Telegraph Hill Homebody,
Well done! And congrats for being in contract in such a short time since listing! Please all send us an update when it finally closes, so we can finally know the price.
Good thing for records, b/c I'm on the record saying it'll get $850,000. Everybody else here say no way.
Time will tell. Maybe this example will show readers here that the world isn't coming to an end, prices are indeed going up, a flat-+5% median is misleading and prices are actually up much more over the past 12-24-36-48-forever months, and that I actually am correct? Nahhhhh.... if all the previous other examples in different prices ranges haven't convinced readers that the market keeps marching higher, nothing else will! :)
Congrats again for having the forsight to buy, remodel, and sell. Long live America.
Posted by: Prime at May 12, 2007 9:40 AM
And here's the link showing ACCT COND if anybody cares:
Posted by: Prime at May 12, 2007 9:40 AM
“Everybody else here say no way.”
So Socketsite publicizes a nice place based on a reader’s tip, half of the people - not comments - were in favor of the building/condo/location, and it quickly sold? What a shocker.
Congratulations prime, you just proved that you’re not only tiresome but delusional and grammatically challenged as well.
Posted by: SFSal at May 12, 2007 5:15 PM
You know I got you irked SFSal when you start pointing out typos :)
I guess I have reading comprehension problems as well, b/c from what I read above, nobody indicated it would sell for even close to asking.
I understand it is upsetting that this unit is selling at such a high price to you SFSal. But sometime, you just have to admit when you're wrong. No big deal if you rent, or the seller was wise enough to buy and remodel several years ago.
It's great to be a prime property owner. And this unit proves it again. I don't expect any of the haters to reply here, just like I don'g expect any of the haters to admit they were wrong regarding the 3208 Pierce St. properties.
Posted by: Prime at May 13, 2007 3:22 AM
“I guess I have reading comprehension problems as well, b/c from what I read above, nobody indicated it would sell for even close to asking.” - Prime
“the price is relatively reasonable.” – Peter
“I saw this unit today and I was very pleasantly surprised.” – Hopefulbuyer
“Great building! Even the residences that don't have views are wonderful because of the location... the park is right there.” - Damion
Posted by: Anon2 at May 13, 2007 9:05 AM
It closed escrow on 5/31/07 with a contract price of $975,000 (5% over asking).
Posted by: SocketSite at June 6, 2007 2:00 PM
"Prettiest condo for < $1000/sqft"....WTF? I just bought a great old home in one of Seattle's most expensive neighborhoods for less than 1/3 the PSqFt cost. You guys keep paying crazy SFO prices and while you're at it, keep paying ridiculous taxes to support lazy hangers on and illegal immigrants. Me, I'm gonna blow my 8.3% I would have wasted on CA taxes on some cool shit for myself. SFO is nice but not @ those prices. I'm flipping you all off as I cross the CA / OR line.
Posted by: GetMeOutOfCA at June 6, 2007 8:37 PM
oh wow! I grew up in #108! It looks so different!
i moved couple years ago down to LA to study architecture. SF was a great place to live, and I was wondering what became of that place...
Posted by: Kentaro Yamada at April 13, 2008 4:42 AM
#1201 is on market for $1,899,000 having sold for $1,925,000 in Fed 2008. New floors, new appliance, new counter top but I'd say this is a pretty solid apple.
Posted by: eddy at January 7, 2011 5:23 PM