Soma Grand: Street Level Rendering
The Soma Grand christened their sales office at 1085 Mission with a packed Friends and Family event last night. We were lucky enough to score an invitation. And smart bold enough to ferret out the straight scoop:
While March 7th marks the VIP grand opening, the first official release (and actual taking of deposits) isn’t expected to kickoff until mid-April. (And a blowout “Rincon style” launch party is tentatively planned for May 2nd.)
The first year of twice-monthly housekeeping service is included in the purchase price, but a la carte thereafter. Yoga, car service, and massage (in the “private studio [or] meditation garden”) are a la carte from the get go. Monthly HOA fees are expected to run under $600/month.
And while an official price list still hasn’t been released, an insider assures us they’re shooting for an average of $600-$800 a square foot (depending upon unit size/floor).
And of course, the extra special SocketSite scoop for our “plugged in” people: rumor has it the developers are in discussions with Charles Phan (of Slanted Door fame) to develop a new dining concept for the larger of their two ground floor retail spaces.
UPDATE: We’re blaming one too many “Soma Gs” for the fact that we failed to get the scoop on parking. We do know there is room for 504 cars in the Soma Grand garage, but we honestly don’t know how the spaces are being allocated or priced (yet).
UPDATE (3/5): According to the developer, “everyone with a unit should be able to park a car, whether its deeded, assigned, or valet is still in the works.” As always, details when we have them.
It’s All About Service And Style At The Soma Grand (1160 Mission) [SocketSite]
The Soma Grand: Topped Off And VIP Opening March 7 [SocketSite]
The Slanted Door: Biographies [slanteddoor.com]

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Comments from “Plugged-In” Readers

  1. Posted by Anonymous

    $600-$800 is a huge span. I don’t think they’ll get much attention, let alone reservations, if they price 1 and 2 bedrooms above $650 sq.ft. It’s really easy to see why. Folks who are paying close to $800 sq.ft will NEVER choose to live in that area AND in that building while so many alternatives are coming out at better locations with better prices. And investors will not pay that kind of price either when average rent there is 50% less than the other SOMA areas. We’ll see what they eventually decide to do.

  2. Posted by Anonymous

    $600 HOA while living in that part of town??? Boy, I hope they hired playmates for their maids.

  3. Posted by Dan

    It seems to that within the range of $600-800/SF, that the views will make a big difference in the price. Upper level units with panoramic views not blocked by the Federal Building or the new Trinity Plaza could be quite desirable– and command a much higher price than units with no view.

  4. Posted by Anonymous

    They can talk up Charles Phan all the want, but will he really open another restuarant two blocks away from Out The Door? And twice monthly maid service-that’s worth what-$100?

  5. Posted by Dude

    Let’s not forget the changes planned at Trinity Plaza. I haven’t heard the latest, but if the supes allow Sangiacomo to tear that eyesore down and rebuild, I think it’d be a huge boost to SOMA Grand.

  6. Posted by Anonymous

    What has happened to large residential multi-unit architecture in this city? I would really like to be a fan of this project since they took a risk on this location, but I cannot. The architectural image above just makes me furious. It all looks so very typical, with dull detailing, BUT, oh, wait!, we will put some cool laminate colors and pictures on some of the windows which will turn the Ramada Inn Box into a “cool” trendy building. WHY can’t we do better in this city? Why must I look to Chicago and Vancouver to look at residential projects that make me dream of wanting to live in them, instead of shaking my head in disappointment?
    Can’t we do any better than this? Between the press-on brick buildings on Berry Street and projects such as this, I have been won over to great admiration for the new Federal Building. At least it has an original and creative design.
    (e.g. New 87 story Shangri-La tower in Chicago on the River across from 95 story Trump (Yuck) tower is selling for about 650 sq. ft., and that location is Chicago’s version of Nob Hill)

  7. Posted by FriendNotFamily

    A couple of observations from last night…crowd seemed skewed towards younger city dwellers versus the south bay empty nesters other “full service” buildings claim to be attracting…model kitchen/bath looked nice but electric range and I don’t think the majority of the units actually have the glass enclosed shower stall showcased in the sales office…lots of background discussions about other restaurants/boutique hotels opening up in the area…Alexis wouldn’t name the restaurateur for the retail space so Phan is definitely news to me.

  8. Posted by Anonymous

    The Soma Grande is an eyesore next to the beautiful new Federal Building!

  9. Posted by Anonymous

    Those Developers are smoking crack if they think they’re going to get those prices for living in what looks like a Motel 6.

  10. Posted by Anonymous

    There is a lot of “buzz” about the neighborhood changing, and that is great, but did anybody hear anyone ready to dive in and want to live in this building? Electric Ranges! Are you kidding?

  11. Posted by Anonymous

    The Slanted Door “concept”. LOL.

  12. Posted by Anonymous

    The sales office interiors are burning hot! Who did the design? The LCD lights were a fantastic idea.

  13. Posted by Anonymous

    The rendering above already looks 100 times better than the actual building. Or should I just call it a wall? As far as price goes, it’s dropping fast at just about every other development. I see them selling right below $600 sq.ft for a view unit in a few months, with lots n’ lots of upgrades.

  14. Posted by Anonymous

    I have given up on sales office interiors reflecting the eventual reality of the unit. All you have to do is step outside, observe the actual building AND neighborhood, and VOILA!, reality wins again.

  15. Posted by Joe

    Why do people expect great architecture in a town where it takes 3 years of wrangling to get a permit for a bathroom remodel.
    Architects design not to offend when planning something for San Francisco. Vancouver and Chicago actually ENCOURAGE new development – contrast that with San Francisco where the only thing encouraged is review by the board of supes.

  16. Posted by fred

    Re: electric ranges, why are people against these? They put out a more controllable heat and are safer. Please explain this “gas stove worship!”
    [Editor’s Note: Part perception, part preference. Our great gas/electric debate for those who might have missed it: A SocketSite Smackdown: Gas Versus Electric In The Kitchen]

  17. Posted by Anonymous

    “Re: electric ranges, why are people against these? They put out a more controllable heat and are safer. Please explain this “gas stove worship!”
    Exactly, explain that to the chefs and those who don’t just live on pasta.

  18. Posted by Anonymous

    Do you mind if I borrow the name “SOMA BLAND”? That really says it all. I guess a city needs something ugly to be built to make you appreciate good design. I was no fan of 1Rincon, but it is a jewel compared to The “Bland”.

  19. Posted by Anonymous

    “That part of town” sure is getting a lot of attention. So many are resistant to the idea that it could actually turn around. Go with it, people. The location itself is excellent.

  20. Posted by Anonymous

    Just found out parking is not included, and they expect to start at $600 sq.ft??? So suppose you pay $250 a month for parking, plus the HOA. That’s gonna be almost $900/month. Am I the only one who thinks that folks who end up buying at this place will “need” that $10000 a year much more being used else where?

  21. Posted by Anonymous

    Wait a minute! Are you saying that they are not selling parking at ALL with these units? You have to rent a space in the garage? Would this be an assigned space or “first come, first served”. What is the advantage they are selling by choosing this building over the dozens of other new projects open or about to open all over town?

  22. Posted by Anonymous

    Parking will be available for sale or lease. But I doubt any of the studios will get to buy a space. Either way, it’ll cost about $300/month. Quite a smart move by the developer I have to say. You take the parking space out and BAM there goes $50k off the sales price. And they’ll be “starting at $600/sq.ft”. Stop playing games!!!

  23. Posted by Michael

    Can’t comment on if parking is included or on pricing if it’s not, but the garage is supposed to be a mix of resident/public parking and something like 500 spaces so I’d guess that all units – even the studios – will at least have crack at parking if it’s not included.

  24. Posted by Anonymous

    $600/sq.ft or $650/sq.ft will probably get you the lowest floors or views of Trinity plaza. Either way, it’ll be the ‘dumpiest’ units in the building. Combine that with the trashy location, the Howard Johnson architecture, and you got a pretty undesirable living condition and lifestyle…

  25. Posted by Anonymous

    If it’s from $600 to $800 as we are being told. Then $650 should cover most of the good units with views. Unless the $800 cap didn’t include the studios.

  26. Posted by Anonymous

    Let’s see, for $800/sqft, we can get a decent unit at Infinity in a nice location.
    At SomaBland, we can get a higher floor with nice views but in a trash filled, dirty, dump of a location.
    And comparing SomaBland’s building to Infinity’s makes Infinity look like a jewel and SomaBland a cubic zirconia. The architectural comparison is not even close…

  27. Posted by Anna

    Anon 12:01 – let me guess, you bought in the Infinity?
    There’s no doubt the neighborhood around the Soma Grand has a long way to go, but I do think it’s on it’s way up. And apples to apples, it probably has more room for appreciation for those willing to weather the neighborhood’s transition.
    As far as the design, definitely not as aesthetically pleasing as the Infinity from the outside, but as an actual resident I’d be more concerned about my views looking out rather than looking in. The real irony would be if residents end up gazing out on that “jewel” to the east, while you end up with a view of the “zirconia” to the west…

  28. Posted by Damion

    Come on — $600 – 800 is not expensive for a new development with views. Let’s do the math: $700 x 750 square feet (a decent sized one-bedroom) = $525,000. That’s an absolutely reasonable price. Where in South Beach or Rincon or even in mid-SOMA can you get a new one bedroom for $525,000?

  29. Posted by Anonymous

    Not a bad deal if it’s really true. Say I got a one of the cheapies for $620 x 750SQFT = $465,000.
    A decent price, though the low 400′s would be a great price…

  30. Posted by Anonymous

    Anna, ok ok I admit it I bought at Infinity :-)
    I don’t doubt SomaGrand will slowly improve the neighborhood. It’s certainly a plus for the area…
    I just hope the residents are patient because they way it is now, it’s hard to invision them going out for an evening walk around the neighborhood or even having many businesses, cafes or restaurants opening up on that block anytime soon…
    Having said that if they do sell some units for 600/sqft or less, I might grab one as an investment as there IS room for appreciation, it just might take a while…

  31. Posted by Anonymous

    Where to begin with you cranks??? I’ll just say as someone who has sat with a sales agent at Soma Grand and seen the computer model of the interiors, this is one of the coolest new projects coming out. I have shopped around… And I’m going to be able to move in this year! Not in 2 years etc. They aren’t quoting prices for parking yet – just ranges – but they said everyone gets a space. For the 1 BR + Den that I am looking at, it will probably be around $700+ INCLUDING PARKING/HOA. For around $500k, This is SO MUCH more affordable than the other high rises… The fitness center and club room sound awesome too. And the views are AMAZING.

  32. Posted by tipster

    OK, put (all from prior comments) trash filled, dirty, dump of a location together with Howard Johnson architecture in need of some sprucing up, and the twice monthly maid service-that’s worth what-$100? and the solution is obvious:
    Rather than the maids cleaning the inside of the units, what the One Rincon developers would do at this location is to hire starving artists to sweep up the trash around the building into big piles, and call it “public art”, then promote the neighborhood as full of “itinerant performance art” before it blows down the street again.
    Then, they could charge a premium for the location, especially on the lower floors that would have much better visibility into the “art unfolding at your window”. And in the same way one Rincon started the ground floor as the 6th floor, these guys could do the opposite, as the lower floors would be more valuable: The first floor would be the ground floor, second would be the plaza floor, third would be the art view floor, and then the next floor would be numbered as floor 1, so that all floors would seem closer to the ground than they really were.
    I’m telling you, these guys are sitting on a GOLD MINE!!! $1000 psf!

  33. Posted by Anonymous

    What was Soma Grand wanting to be? Is this an “entry level” developement for people who are buying property for the first time? If so, forget the yoga rooms, maid servace, and meditation gardens and price this building according to the market demographic and LOCATION that it exists in.
    If Soma Grand wants to be a “cool” new neighborhood changing hipster high rise, then they better re-design the exterior and put in gas stoves before it is too late.

  34. Posted by Michael

    Despite the exterior design I’m bullish on the Soma Grand and I do believe the mid-market neighborhood is ripe for redevelopment and long-term upside. At the same time, I can’t stop laughing at tipster’s last comment.

  35. Posted by Anonymous

    The SOMA Grande maybe a bit early to the party in terms of the neighborhood. If I were Alexis, I would have waited a few more years to see what kind of an impact the new Federal building has on the “hood”

  36. Posted by Anonymous

    I hope Alexis and co. read this. If the neighborhood was the problem, then lets lift up this building and drop it in a more “established neighborhood” with the same prices. Would this be a building you would want to see on Russian Hill or Alta Plaza? People may buy the units, but they would hold their nose when looking at their building from the outside.
    Kingsbury Co. in Chicago has made quite a fortune building daring unusual architecture in “questionable” neighborhoods that sell out before they are out of the ground. Their secret is to build residences that are so imaginative and of such high quality that people are in love with the building instead of the corner it is on. Over time the neighobrhood changes around their projects, and everyone wins. I wish the same could be true here.

  37. Posted by Bill

    Nobody mentions the Architect who’s responsible for this. Is he on loan from Howard Johnson’s in house team? What vision. Its one of those buildings that just looks worse the more you look at it. Can you imagine that building in 5 years when the Trinity and the Fed building are both finished. Doesn’t really fit in does it?

  38. Posted by tipster

    All you guys complaining about the neighborhood and architecture are so out of touch it’s laughable.
    Location and pleasing architecture are no longer necessary in the New Real Estate Economy. What’s important is having the “first mover advantage” in any space, like this neighborhood. What matters is buzz, signature cocktails, blowout parties and a hook, like valet parking or pre-provided maids or other things that people who can’t blow their own noses might want to make it seem more “special”.
    Location and pleasing architecture don’t matter any more.
    It’s a new paradigm and you either learn how to embrace it, or get left in the dust of the New Real Estate Economy!

  39. Posted by Michael Novia

    There are more than enough parking spaces for everybody. Will cost extra though. Some will be leased, some will be sold. I’m guessing if sales are as slow as some of you say, it may be a point of negotiation down the road.
    Some “general” prices I have.
    Junior 1 Bed/1 Bath $500’s
    1 Bed/1 Bath $600’s
    2 Bed/2 Bath $700’s to 900’s
    3 Bed/2 Bath $900 to over $1 mil
    The best views will be to the east. The west will eventually be blocked by a proposed 1,900 unit apartment complex that will stretch from Mission to Market.
    The Federal Building is expected to draw about 3,000 people a day into the neighborhood.
    The location of this building on Mission Street, while convenient to downtown/public transportation, is certainly in the redevelopment stage. From what I have seen so far, I believe the pricing reflects that. We will no more when we see the actual prices vs. unit size vs. view vs. parking. It’s to early to tell. The new Federal Building, Intercontinental Hotel, 1,900 unit Apartment Complex, Soma Grand, and the very close Westfield Shopping Center will all have a positive influence on this neighborhood and will serve as draw for bistros, cafes and service providers. This could be a solid long term investment. One to watch.

  40. Posted by Anonymous

    ouch! $600k for an one bedroom without parking at the Soma Bland? Not including $600 for HOAs! I hope they deliver coffee to your door every morning and shine your shoes before work. There must be other properties better for the money unless you like to live right next to skid row. I wonder how many buyers will actually walk home at night after a nice meal at Out The Door?

  41. Posted by Anonymous

    Imagine you just took an opportunity to relocate to San Francisco from a (Chicago, Portand, etc.) and you sell your home/condo in almost any other American City for around 400,000 which would be in a desirable safe neighborhood near shops and restaurants, and THIS is the only new construction option you could afford in San Francisco? You have to live near skid row! All so you can say you live in a “world class” city? In any other major city these units would be entry level with ond bd. plus den starting in the mid 200′s. So my question is, if incomes and land costs in other cities (using zip code districts) are similar, how is it that this is called affordable in San Francisco? 600,000 for a one bedroom!? in a city with 1/6 the population of Manhattan and twice the space. These prices will come down. My firm consulted on this “entry level” project in Chicago (not in Skid Row) with one bd./2 ba. with den starting around $225,000 and 2bd. starting at 300,000. http://www.triocondominiums.com

  42. Posted by Anon

    Based on all the chatter, I walked the block after work last night. It has room for improvement but it’s not particularly sketchy or “trashy” (unlike the sixth street blocks or lower Tenderloin). It’s not the Marina, but it was mostly quiet and felt like a typical block in NYC. Federal building is impressive. I’ll hold my tongue on the Grand until it’s finished.

  43. Posted by Anonymous

    Would you spend 800,000 to live there, plus $600 plus parking fees? No the neighborhood is not the worst in the city, but this project better set their initial prices in the “reality based community”.

  44. Posted by Anonymous

    I hope the SomaGrand sales team is reading this. They’ll need to price at $500/sqft or less to get any kind of traction in sales…
    $500 x 750sqft = $375,000 sounds reasonable for a 1 bedroom unit in that location…

  45. Posted by Anonymous

    And I thought it was just One Rincon. With the exception of a few very informative posts, most people here are like a pack of wild dogs just waiting to attack the latest project. If you read through this entertaining gabber you begin to think there is a lot of bitterness and resentment present in this city.

  46. Posted by Agent

    $375,000 sounds reasonable for a 1 bedroom unit in that location
    Like it or not, you’re completely out of touch with reality and need to do some basic research. Studio condos in the Tenderloin currently sell for $375,000 – that’s over $700/sqft without parking or amenities and in an older building.
    This area might not be developed, but as a previous commenter mentioned it’s really not sketchy like Sixth Street. Anything under $600/sqft would be stupid cheap.

  47. Posted by Anonymous

    “This area might not be developed, but as a previous commenter mentioned it’s really not sketchy like Sixth Street. Anything under $600/sqft would be stupid cheap.”
    Maybe stupid cheap is what they need to sell at in the beginning and raise the prices slowly in the coming months.
    If they were smart, they would follow 1Rincon’s strategy. They priced very aggressively initially and resulted in blow-out sales numbers…
    [Editor’s Note: They are smart. Expect extra-aggressive early pricing.]

  48. Posted by be

    Annon 9:01, may i ask what direction you walked from yesterday. At night, the Soma Bland is horrible. There’s NOTHING around. If you came from 6th, there’s skid row. If you came from Market and 7th, there’s the group of people who sell stolen goods. If you came from 8th street down to 7th, its a bunch of empty buildings w/ trash everywhere.
    Not my ideal location for at least the next 15 years. Of course a realtor will say differently…
    Ask the agent will he buy/live in this location…

  49. Posted by Anonymous

    I agree re the bitterness. It’s startling. I see tons of potential in this area. If it’s too trashy for you, so be it. You won’t convince anyone by getting emotional about it. People will still buy, the neighborhood will improve and become desirable to a wider range. I smell jealousy towards others who would take the plunge.

  50. Posted by Anon

    “Annon 9:01, may i ask what direction you walked from yesterday.”
    Straight up Mission from New Montgomery and then back to Market on 8th. Again, the 6th street stretch sucks but I didn’t feel like I was in danger – just lucky that I have a home.
    You’re exactly right about the empty buildings between 7th and 8th but here’s a tip for you…empty buildings get developed much faster than ones in which tenants/residents first need to be displaced. This block will turn faster than you think.

  51. Posted by Anonymous

    If you read through this entertaining gabber you begin to think there is a lot of bitterness and resentment present in this city.
    Funny, this level of bitchiness makes me think “bitter” agents in competing sales offices more than anything else…

  52. Posted by Dan

    1587 15th St at Mission St sold quickly at $700/square feet, and 15th and Mission is similar to 7th and Mission– both a block away from a sketchy corner, but also only 2-3 blocks from shops and restaurants.

  53. Posted by Anonymous

    I don’t think the neighborhood was causing as much bitterness as the dull exterior elevations. That being said, if they really are going to be selling 1bedrooms in the low 500′s that is going to be attractive to some people. I am finding that those who can afford $550,000 usually can go up towards $700,000 without difficulty so the point then becomes location. Would you choose this corner vs. another part of town? Imagine if this building had daring creative architecture? That would have changed a lot of the “bitterness” floating around lately.

  54. Posted by be

    I think Anon 2:04 hit it right on the spot! Granted we all know the location is less than desirable, but too bad the developers couldn’t be more creative w/ the space. It truely does look like an older hotel you wil find near an airport. Worse of all, it’s right next to the beautiful Federal Building and soon to be NEW Trinity Plaza.
    Is the area going to get better? Sure! Granted, whoever buys this place will have to sit on it for a long time! 3 different mayors tried to clean up 6th street. I dont see a change anytime soon. 8th Street has a strip club on mission, a couple of massage parlors and vacant storefronts. PG&E has a horrible building on 8th and they arent leaving anytime soon. So, by the time this place gets better, other locations in the City will also.
    So, if i buy this at $700/SF… how long will it take to get to $900/SF. As compared to Infinity where its $900/SF…how long till $1100???
    As for the service, NOBODY who’s willing to live on 7th Street cares about maid service, free coffee etc…
    15th and Mission is a LOT better than 7th Mission now. At least you can walk to Valencia…

  55. Posted by Anonymous

    So, if i buy this at $700/SF… how long will it take to get to $900/SF. As compared to Infinity where its $900/SF…how long till $1100???
    If not “bitter” agents at other developments, then perhaps “bitter” buyers at other developments?
    As for the service, NOBODY who’s willing to live on 7th Street cares about maid service, free coffee etc…
    But with this I completely agree. They are totally missing the mark with regard to marketing.

  56. Posted by Anonymous

    “15th and Mission is a LOT better than 7th Mission now. At least you can walk to Valencia…”
    And from 7th and Mission you can walk to the Westfield San Francisco Centre, and then on to Union Square.
    16th and Mission had more reported crime than any other corner in the city, according to a recent article in the Examiner. But of course, 6th and Mission is pretty sketchy too. However, in both cases, the neighborhood improves quickly if you keep on walking.

  57. Posted by Anonymous

    In this city it does not matter any more. Crime and Homelessness is rampant and I have had my car broken into in the Marina, and been mugged at Pierce and Green in the heart of Cow Hollow. I have a very wealthy friend on outer Jackson in Presidio Heights who has found someone sleeping in their backyard, human waste in their garage when the door was left open, and been mugged a block from their house (mansion in my opinion), so I wonder in a city so small as this if the boundries are as distinct as they once were>

  58. Posted by Anonymous

    “If not “bitter” agents at other developments, then perhaps “bitter” buyers at other developments?”
    I would bet it is not the buyers but renters of other developments that are bitter.

  59. Posted by Anonymous

    Let’s put the broad brushes away. I own my own home, paid off the loan, and am looking to sell and downsize to a condo, and although I did not come up with “Soma Bland”, I did lol and feel that there is nothing wrong with expecting more better design in San Francisco. Sure Soma Grand would be cool in Fresno or Reno, but this is San Francisco, and can’t we dream a little larger and hope for a little more better design instead of a one bedroom with maid service and free coffee?

  60. Posted by Anonymous

    People keep saying the sales team should follow One rincon’s example in pricing strategy…
    It’s the same sales team.

  61. Posted by wayne

    i get a kick out of the infinity going for 800 a sq ft, as when i looked it was a bit over 1000 a sq ft on a lower teen floor, and i was worried if anything else was built i would be looking at another building right in front of me. granted this neighborhood is not the best, but 6 to 800 doesn’t seem out of line, especially if it’s 800 for the upper levels looking toward downtown. i think they are in the ball park.

  62. Posted by Anonymous

    Speaking of Infinity, I reserved a corner unit on an upper floor(29+) for $1000/SqFt. It has nice pano bay and city views that won’t be blocked. Jokes aside, is this a good deal??
    I feel pretty good about it given the high floor, corner unit, and nice views. Just little concern about the weakening market…

  63. Posted by realist

    911 pm — i think $1000 at infinity for 29 flr corner with some water view is a-ok. maybe it drops below a bit, but even medium term, this is solid. all the towers that get built to the south and west, as tishman phase 2 and 3 and 4 dont block your views. you have locn and views and the best new project below 4 seas or st regis.
    re soma grand it is my understanding lender underwrote this project at 875 per sf, and cost to build including land is 700 per sf, so its impossible to see them coming to market anywhere outside of that range.
    i am not saying its worth more, i just dont think they have a choice.

  64. Posted by Anonymous

    “Speaking of Infinity, I reserved a corner unit on an upper floor(29+) for $1000/SqFt. It has nice pano bay and city views that won’t be blocked. Jokes aside, is this a good deal??”
    Then only units in the Infinifty that will NOT have their views blocked are in the Northeast corner–is that correct?
    All west views get blocked by Tishman phase 3 and 4 and southwest views will be blocked by tower 2. The infinity might be in a great location but if you look at what the skyline will look like in 10 years, the infinity is in one of the most dense parts in terms of high rises.

  65. Posted by Anonymous

    Someone wrote earlier that it is all about the “buzz” and “Signature cocktail” that seems to matter these days. What is funny to me about the 1Rincon vs. Infinity battle is that when Infinity buyers try to argue on facts like parking and location, they will loose to the buzz and excitment of 1Rincon signature umbrellas and tote bags. If Soma Grand is to get the same team selling this project, then watch out, for as was written earlier, they will not be selling good design, location, or floorplans. They WILL be selling “buzz” and how much do you want to bet they will not be giving away “signature yoga mats” in a month or two?

  66. Posted by Anna

    “Buzz” marketing works in an up market or when there’s no real competition with which to compare (as was the case with 1Rincon). It’s a losing proposition in today’s market – too much uncertainty and way too much choice between all the new buildings. The marketing team had better figure that out PDQ.

  67. Posted by Anonymous

    Realist writes that the cost to build Soma Grand is $700 sq/ft which seems high to me. I have not been inside the building but from the outside there are not any “high end” finishes or materials. I can’t imagine the land cost being that expensive for this location so I am curious why this would cost so much. 500 sq/ft is standard for the middle range residential high rise construction costs (and materials are going back down in cost as we enter this deflationary period btw.).

  68. Posted by Michael Novia

    $1,000 a sq ft is fine. You did okay. When you compare to say the Brannan, the higher floors with views are over a $1,000 sq ft. A 1 bed unit just sold, in about 2 days, at 199 New Montgomery for $1,050 sq ft (if it sold for list price), 12th floor w/downtown views.

  69. Posted by Anonymous

    I think corner units at Infinity are two bedrooms so a better comparison at 199 New Montgomery might be #1102 which looks to have gone into contract just as quickly for $807 a square foot if it sold for asking. A much lower floor two bedroom (#211) also looks like it went into contract pretty fast and was listed at $601 a square foot.

  70. Posted by Anonymous

    “I think corner units at Infinity are two bedrooms so a better comparison at 199 New Montgomery might be #1102 which looks to have gone into contract just as quickly for $807 a square foot if it sold for asking. A much lower floor two bedroom (#211) also looks like it went into contract pretty fast and was listed at $601 a square foot.”
    I looked at #211. It was indeed sold at $601 sq.ft. The building itself is not much to look at. But the location is good and the unit has very good layout with a huge private patio. The seller bought it for 490k. Not bad for two years. BTW, the most recent 1 bedroom at brannan that was sold took A LOT longer than just 2 days.

  71. Posted by Michael Novia

    #211 is an interior very dark unit without views. Not a good comparison. #1102 (the seller is a friend of mine) is a nice unit, I held it open, with okay views to the south and west. I only mentioned the 1 bed because it sounded like the guy who bought on the 29th floor had some pretty nice views, and the 1 bed at 199 New Montgomery has nice views as well. I was not providing a CMA. Just some general info. I think $1,000 a sq ft, with views, at the Infinity is just fine. The last 1 bed closed at 219 Brannan #6C on 2/9/07 for the asking price of $729k or $810.90 a sq ft, on the 6th floor facing Brannan. It went into contract within 5 days of the listing date. Very nice unit. As of today, there is a 1 bed for sale in 219 Brannan, #7H listed at $899k or $1,092 a square foot, with views. It has been on the market 40 days. It has been reduced from $925k.

  72. Posted by Anonymous

    Well I’m one to think not all agents are evil :-)
    And I agree a corner unit 25-30 stories high with views should command somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000/sq.
    Thanks Michael for the info….

  73. Posted by Anonymous

    I don’t think SomaGrand is as bad as people make it out to be. The whole area is ripe for development with the new fed building. In fact, most of the buildings across the street from SomaGrand and the Feds have been bought up by developers. The big empty lot across the street will turn into low rise condos. The rest will undergo renovation in the coming years.
    Sure, it’ll take a couple years, but at the very least SomaGrand and the Feds is a positive for the neighborhood.
    And regardless whether Charles Phan opens a restaurant or not, there will most likely be a nice restaurant there along with a cafe/grocery store next to it.
    Unfortunately, I don’t see SomaGrand selling the units much less than $600-700sqft. I was hoping for mid 500′s/sqft, but doesn’t look like that’ll happen…
    [Editor's Note: With this we agree.]

  74. Posted by Anonymous

    Does anyone really think 6th street (between Mission and Market) will ever get revitalized? 7th and 8th seem decent and hopefully the Federal Building can bring some civilization to this area.

  75. Posted by ExNYCer

    “Does anyone really think 6th street (between Mission and Market) will ever get revitalized?”
    Having seen the complete transformation and revitalization of Times Square in New York firsthand, yes I do. And Times Square was once MUCH grittier than 6th street is now.

  76. Posted by Anonymous

    Did my post get censored? Socketsite often censors stuff which I think is okay but I don’t believe my post should have been censored. All I was saying is that threads about new developments are almost always predominantly negative.
    Should that really be censored? If that gets censored what else?
    [Editor’s Note: Actually, your exact comment was, “You are just not used to the negativity of the general socketsite user. Bitter and resentful would be the first two word that come to mind.” The whole “bitter” thing was getting old. And when generalizing about our reader base, please keep in mind that we recorded roughly 9,000 unique visits today (versus 70 comments). Regardless, thanks for “plugging in!”]

  77. Posted by Anonymous

    Regarding negative comments on new projets, I just wanted to say that if you want to only hear “the good” about new projects, why not just pick up their sales brochures? Is it so harmful to find out “parking is not included” or that the cooking surface is not gas, or that a neighborhood may not be turning around as fast as a salesperson claims? The value of this site is to get the inside scoop on the positives and negatives of these new projects and I thank Socketsite for all the information and open and fair discussion.

  78. Posted by Michael

    What! You think people are interested in an open discussion that’s not simply marketing, prospecting or industry spin disguised as a blog, newsletter or brochure? Or that we’re capable of processing all this “negative” information? That’s just crazy talk.

  79. Posted by Anonymous

    “Having seen the complete transformation and revitalization of Times Square in New York firsthand, yes I do. And Times Square was once MUCH grittier than 6th street is now.”
    Giuliani was Mayor whe he cleaned up Time Square and we live in San Francisco where Trinity Plaza can’t get torn down for years.

  80. Posted by Anonymous

    “[Editor’s Note: Actually, your exact comment was, “You are just not used to the negativity of the general socketsite user. Bitter and resentful would be the first two word that come to mind.” The whole “bitter” thing was getting old. And when generalizing about our reader base, please keep in mind that we recorded roughly 9,000 unique visits today (versus 70 comments). Regardless, thanks for “plugging in!”]”
    I have to argue that a lot of the posts about new developments have a venom in them that goes beyond pointing out what the negative aspects of a building might be such as limited parking or a bad neighborhood. The posts come off as sore rants not as viable material for discussion.

  81. Posted by Anonymous

    The people of SF would never stand to have the tactics Giuliani used to clean up the city. Giuliani is an extreme but so are the people of SF.

  82. Posted by Anonymous

    “The people of SF would never stand to have the tactics Giuliani used to clean up the city. Giuliani is an extreme but so are the people of SF.”
    That’s why 6th will take forever to clean up. That being said 7th and 8th are much cleaner and hopefully the Federal Building can add a lot to the area. It’ll be interesting to see how aggressive the Soma Grand developers are with the pricing. My vote $600-$750 sq/ft, washer dryer, 2 years of HOA and a Taser.

  83. Posted by Michael

    Don’t know if it’s accurate, but more pricing info from the sfnewsletter:
    - Junior 1 Bed: $400,000+ (618 square feet)
    - 1 Bedrooms: $500,000-$700,000 (650-848 square feet)
    - 2 Bedrooms: $750,000-$1,000,000 (1126-1172 square feet)
    - 3 Bedrooms: $950,000-$1,400,000 (1300-1528 square feet)
    So that’s something like $770-825/sq.ft. for 1 bedrooms, $650-850/sq.ft. for 2 bedrooms and $730-915/sq.ft. for 3 bedrooms.

  84. Posted by Anonymous

    That’s really too bad. For that location, the initial pricing should be in the $500-600/sqft to create a buzz…

  85. Posted by Anonymous

    The sales will tell in the end.

  86. Posted by Anonymous

    Truth is their sales people have not received the final version of the pricing yet because the developer has not made the final decision. The developer is watching closely how the market is reacting to the project and their marketing so far. And make no doubt they are reading all the posts here. But the prices given above are very close to what I got, although I did get different prices from different sales people. My guess is that they’ll come out right above $600 sq.ft. I agree with some of the folks above in that if initial pricing is set at mid $500, they would build up their reservations a lot faster. We have seen good examples of this strategy with developer making just the same profit if not more.

  87. Posted by Anonymous

    I doubt a developer would make any drastic strategy decisions based on the posts here. There are less than 90 posts here many probably made by the same people.
    Not quite enough people to get any significant data from the market place.

  88. Posted by Anonymous

    No the developer won’t make any decision JUST based on what they see here. But I think you underestimated the research value of today’s internet publishing and advertising platform such as socketsite. When the developer sweeps across a few hundred posts, it makes a pretty good bell curve.
    [Editor's Note: And no, we didn't solicit that response.]

  89. Posted by Anonymous

    It might affect the developer psychologically, but even at a few hundred posts there is still no significant data to be had.
    Don’t get me wrong, I love Socketsite and find it very informative on a number of levels. It is a powerful platform. You just can’t gain an accurate view of market sentiment from reading the posts here.

  90. Posted by Anonymous

    - Junior 1 Bed: $400,000+ (618 square feet)
    - 1 Bedrooms: $500,000-$700,000 (650-848 square feet)
    - 2 Bedrooms: $750,000-$1,000,000 (1126-1172 square feet)
    - 3 Bedrooms: $950,000-$1,400,000 (1300-1528 square feet)
    So that’s something like $770-825/sq.ft. for 1 bedrooms, $650-850/sq.ft. for 2 bedrooms and $730-915/sq.ft. for 3 bedrooms.
    These prices seem to be at a 10% discount to Rincon Hill (for the same floors). Obviously there are a lot of variables but my guess is that these prices are still too high to draw folks away from Rincon Hill/Mission Bay.
    Plus, it’s an experimental area for this class of building. If initial sales goes slowly, it’ll really affect this building getting sold out. The one other consideration is the potential lack of investor interest. With Trinity Plaza set to become a 1500+ unit apartment complex, rentals may not be a good alternative if the market softens as we all suspect.

  91. Posted by Anonymous

    “even at a few hundred posts there is still no significant data to be had.”
    Wow, that’s old school. I hope you’re not in marketing.

  92. Posted by Anonymous

    “Wow, that’s old school. I hope you’re not in marketing”
    Please tell me how you would gain an accurate view of market sentiment from the posts here. First of all, you would need to know how many people actually posted the few hundred posts to know the size of your sample. It could very well be less than 100. A lot of posts are made by the same users. Second of all, I am sure some of the posters are qualified buyers or real estate agents who truly have a handle on the market but you have no idea what percentage this makes up.
    I hope you’re not in marketing. If you were the developer you could end up pricing your units based upon the posts of 50 people who are not even in the market for a condo.

  93. Posted by Anonymous

    Junior 1 Bed: $400,000+ (618 square feet)
    - 1 Bedrooms: $500,000-$700,000 (650-848 square feet)
    - 2 Bedrooms: $750,000-$1,000,000 (1126-1172 square feet)
    - 3 Bedrooms: $950,000-$1,400,000 (1300-1528 square feet)
    So that’s something like $770-825/sq.ft. for 1 bedrooms, $650-850/sq.ft. for 2 bedrooms and $730-915/sq.ft. for 3 bedrooms.
    These prices seem to be at a 10% discount to Rincon Hill (for the same floors). Obviously there are a lot of variables but my guess is that these prices are still too high to draw folks away from Rincon Hill/Mission Bay.

    Where are you getting the data about the floors?
    The pricing above didn’t mention specific pricing on floors…

  94. Posted by Anonymous

    “Where are you getting the data about the floors? The pricing above didn’t mention specific pricing on floors…”
    Just a back of the envelope calculation comparing price per sq ft of 1 and 2 bedrooms from floors 8-20 versus top of the range for the Soma Grand. Again, since there is no official pricing data it’s hard to say but One Rincon definitely had a good chunk of apartments in the $750 – $900/sq.ft. range. Soma Grand will need to come in 15-20% lower IMHO for it to attract even close to the success of One Rincon’s first building.

  95. Posted by Michael

    “Please tell me how you would gain an accurate view of market sentiment from the posts here.”
    Let’s see…curb appeal/design isn’t going to sell this one…the service angle is interesting but might not be worth as much as they think in this neighborhood…for some reason the price point alone isn’t making anyone jump up and down with glee…and the neighborhood has potential but isn’t there yet.
    It’s frightening how many people think “marketing” is just about price and “buzz”.

  96. Posted by Anonymous

    Let’s hope the developer not only reads these posts, but sees how the market is responding to similiar ‘dead in the water’ projects like Palms, Potrero, Arterra, Park Terrace, Hayes, etc…
    Hopefully then they’ll decide to price a little more aggressively, i.e. $500-600/Sqft…

  97. Posted by Anonymous

    “It’s frightening how many people think “marketing” is just about price and “buzz”.”
    True but the reality is that these are interesting times for developers and Soma Grand will be selling at a time where the market is softening but not dead. Clearly, robust sales at One Rincon can still be acheived, potentially, but as another poster noted, there are a number of developments with zero activity. There is too much risk in this marketplace now not to use price, an extremely important lever, and buzz to funnel demand appropriately for this property. The Soma Grand also has the added risk variability of location. Unlike its counterprats in Mission Bay and Rincon Hill, SG is in somewhat of an unsafe neighborhood. Don’t believe me? As a reader in the a mid-market development post pointed out check out a Megan’s law of 94103. In comparison check out 94105.
    It’s not like 94105 is developed either. I live there now (rent) and there is literally one Subway open during dinner time for quick eats. But Rincon hill is a lot safer than 6th street and will get developer a lot faster.
    Ultimately, price and the ability to sell out units fast at Soma Grand will be extremely important. For folks, including myself, that can afford 700+/sq ft. it would be reassuring to know you’ll have 200+ neighbors willing to pionneer the new neighborhood. So yeah, pricing and buzz may not be everything, but the initial sales of Soma Grand will be make or break for this development.

  98. Posted by Anonymous

    The location of Soma “Grand” would have been an excellent opportunity to show how good design would sell in a less than desirable location. What if this building did not look like a Ramada Inn and more like the new Federal Building? They would be able to get away with the pricing posted above if they had just taken a little more care in selecting an architect. My question is, even if this neighborhood turns around, does the design of Soma “Grand” allow it to appreciate in value, or would its architecture cause it to barely keep up with inflation?

  99. Posted by Anonymous

    Could a developer even afford groundbreaking design while also having to sell the units for what everyone here wishes–$500-$600 per sqft–and still make a profit?
    Alot of the really cool buildings you see today are either very high end residential buildings or office towers. Not mid-range condos.
    Maybe land and contruction costs in SF are the damper on great design. All the money that could have been spent on great design goes to other things.
    I wonder how much per sqft the federal building costs.

  100. Posted by Anonymous

    Land costs in San Francisco are high, but were they high even in this location? I think the amount of reviews and permits and the time involved getting to the day when you can start construction might be more than land costs in San Francisco. I do know that in Chicago there are some wild designs going up that are already sold out mainly because of the “starchitects” involved even though these projects are not in great neighborhoods. I think the point raised about high land costs stopping good design in S.F. is an interesting point.

  101. Posted by Anonymous

    any more news from the event tonight?

  102. Posted by Anonymous

    “Land costs in San Francisco are high, but were they high even in this location?”
    The land cost even in Hunters Point is very expensive compared to the rest of the country. Land anywhere in or near SF makes the rest of the US seem cheap. I wonder what the per sqft difference in cost is between the land say under One Rincon compared to the land under Soma Grand?

  103. Posted by rg

    I don’t understand how a bunch of posters on this site can talk about $800-1000/sf (at the Infinity and 1Rincon) being a “steal” just a week ago. Now, you all want to say that $600/sf is way too expensive for this particular building.
    Am I the only person on this site that thinks that 1 Rincon is just about the ugliest thing to go up in SF in years, not to mention that it sits on the Bay Bridge, completely removed from any services or nightlife? And am I the only person who can see that the Infinity belongs in Miami and not in SF? Or is it just that I’m an actual practicing architect with a brain?

  104. Posted by rg

    Oh, I should have mentioned that I don’t like the Soma Grand’s architecture either, but come on, it’s the same bland architecture that goes up all over SF. All of Mission Bay looks the same and people paid big bucks to live there. The interiors are far better in these units and the buildings you’ll look out at will be spectacular (and this will be the ONLY building in all of SF who can market THAT!)
    If there are any future developer’s reading this: I can design a much better building for you. Call me.

  105. Posted by Morgan

    RG, I am a practicing architect also, and could not agree more with your comments about Soma Grand, One Rincon, and even Infinity. The problem with a lot of San Francisco realtors and developers is that they are looking at buildings like cars, in that as long as they sell and work for a couple of years, who cares about what happens in 10 or 20 years. These designs are DATED before they even began construction and offer no permenant architectural significance! There is no regard whatsoever for the existing urban fabric, history, and opportunity to do something modern, but in keeping with what WAS an existing Bay Area aesthetic. Mission Bay is an absolute crime, and Soma Grand a wasted chance to do something unique and creative in a neighborhood that sorely needs it. I am also sick of realtors thinking they are experts on architecture, design, and architectural history, as they are NOT.

  106. Posted by anonymous

    The progress of the Trinity project should help bolster the Soma Grand. Granted it’s a lot of supply for this area but the Soma Grand has neighborhood issues that can potentially be mitigated with more mid-market development.

  107. Posted by Zibbyz

    The Trinity project will NOT help SOMA GRAND. 1,500 units going in around the corner? Built by the Slumlord of SF? Pleeeze! It is just going to cause traffic congestion and trinity folks trying to lease, rent, buy SG parking…

  108. Posted by Zibbyz

    The Trinity project will NOT help SOMA GRAND. 1,500 units going in around the corner? Built by the Slumlord of SF? Pleeeze! It is just going to cause traffic congestion and trinity folks trying to lease, rent, buy SG parking…

  109. Posted by George

    And what about those ugly faux “lace” drape panels in the lobby entrance windows? Whoever the Interior Designer was ought to be shot.

  110. Posted by George

    And what about those ugly faux “lace” drape panels in the lobby entrance windows? Whoever the Interior Designer was ought to be shot.

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