February 27, 2007
The Soma Grand: Topped Off And VIP Opening March 7
The Soma Grand has topped off and announced a VIP Grand Opening for March 7. And while we haven’t received any official pricing, we have heard rumblings of prices as high as $900/sqft for one-bedrooms. (And yes, they’ll be serving an obligatory specialty cocktail at the opening: the “Soma G”).
For those who are unfamiliar with the neighborhood, the Soma Grand is located adjacent to San Francisco's new Federal Building.
∙ It’s All About Service And Style At The Soma Grand (1160 Mission) [SocketSite]
∙ Got Capped [agicapital.com]
∙ We’re Definitely Arterra People [SocketSite]
∙ Just Quotes: Let's Hear It For (Or Against) The Feds [SocketSite]
First Published: February 27, 2007 6:10 AM
Comments from "Plugged In" Readers
I'm waiting for the sales office to open before making the trip, but how do the two designs - Soma Grand and Federal Building - work together?
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 11:42 AM
ouch! the ferderal building is beautiful while the soma grand looks like an old 80's downtown LA office building.
the developer should have spent more time on the design. if they decide to tear down trinity and build the massive apt. rentals, soma grand wil be the ugly duckling of the block.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 11:51 AM
Well if you put it THAT way, the Federal Building is beautiful (gorgeous in fact!) if you compare it to this ugly duckling (And I am one of the people who wrote against the Federal Building design in the previous thread). I think the Soma Grand is not even worthy of downtown L.A. It reminds me of something you would see next to the freeway on the way to LAX airport, or 101 down in Burlingame. I am still waiting for a new condo tower in this city that is award winning design and attractive enough for me to finally sell my Marin Co. house and move back to the city (which I would like to do in 2007).
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 12:41 PM
What kind of designs for residential buildings would people like to see? Residential buildings are almost always more dull than office towers. Even in Hong Kong, most of the crazy architecture is occupied and funded by huge corporations with big egos and lots of money.
Spending thousands per square foot for construction on a residential building does not make economic sense.
All residents can't live in a Frank Gehry building.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 12:57 PM
First, we get the 80's office tower next to the freeway we all know as 1Rincon, now we get another 'office tower' looking building in SomaGrand. And at $900/sqft for that neighborhood? I don't know about you, but for around 900/sqft, one could get a pretty sweet unit at Infinity, or at a half dozen other developments in superior neighborhoods around the city...
Posted by: SF Living at February 27, 2007 12:59 PM
You guys should all check out Emporis buildings website. Take a look at the high rise residential towers all around the world. With the exception of maybe a few they are all pretty mundane.
The extraordinary architecture you see in this world is mostly occupied by offices.
I actually like this building.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 1:05 PM
I was the author of the third comment. The post below me is exactly right! Soma Grand looks like a 2 hotel down by LAX.
Soma Grand looks terrible next to the Federal Building. Shouldn't the developer think more about design? It's too bad that the Grand will between 2 better buildings. ONE being an office for the Feds and TWO a rental complex.
For $900 a sq ft...this is crazy!
As for design, wouldn't the Yerba Buena Lofts look perfect right next to the new Federal Building. (or something close to it).
I was just down on 6th street and its going to take A LONG time before 7th street is cleaned up!
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 1:23 PM
I think there's a big difference between 6th and 7th Streets. 6th is worse by far and hopefully with feds and Soma Grand, 7th will improve. I live right there and it is dirty. The increased foot traffic will be a welcome addition to the neighborhood and I hope it leads to some sort of clean up.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 1:36 PM
I actually think the comments about downtown LA architecture are unfair and quite inaccurate. Dowtown LA boasts some high rise that would put the great majority of the SF variant to shame: the First Interstate building immediately comes to mind. LA is, if anything, far more architecturally adventurous, interesting and "progressive," (to use an utterly meaningless and abused term), than SF.
Posted by: zzzzzzzz at February 27, 2007 1:46 PM
"What kind of designs for residential buildings would people like to see? Residential buildings are almost always more dull than office towers."
Well, how about a quick visit to Chicago. Some of the new residential projects going up there are really interesting, especially the new Fordham Spire.
You cannot say THAT looks like an 80's office tower in Irvine. The thing I am amazed by is that land costs in downtown Chicago are higher than S.F., but what you get for your money is almost double in Chicago compared to "the city".
For about $550,000 you can get a two bedroom in a new tower there that would far surpass 1Rincon, Ifinity, or any of the other new towers currently going up.
Posted by: Morgan at February 27, 2007 1:47 PM
7th is just as bad as 6th. Has anyone drove by the Carl's Jr on 7th and Market and noticed all the people standing around? Do you know why they are there? Well, this location is known as a place to sell/buy stolen goods. There was an article in the Chronicle a year back saying how apts and cars were broekn into and the goods sold at 7th.
Also Mission is just horrible. From 6th all the way to 11th...there's tons of trash and empty buildings.
If people think the Feds will clean up the area...keep dreaming! They are leaving their Tenderloin Office and moving down to 7th. Did they clean up the Tenderloin?
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 1:55 PM
"All residents can't live in a Frank Gehry building."
How about Norman Foster? He got kicked to the curb by the Transbay committee, but his upcoming Jameson House in my hometown Vancouver is stunning.
Posted by: etslee at February 27, 2007 2:03 PM
The "award winning design" comment was quickly followed with a mention of the Yerba Buena Lofts. The YBL, from the outside, looks like a stack of storage containers. On the inside you feel like you're in either a concrete meat locker (in the units), or in some european 80's b-movie (hallways). And it's won tons of awards.
Granted, the SOMA-G ain't gorgeous. I'm just saying everybody's opinion of good architecture is different, and just because a building has gotten praise in some industry rag, doesn't necessarily make me want to live there. But I will concede that at that price point, 1Rincon and Infinity are probably the nicest places in SOMA right now.
Posted by: Dude at February 27, 2007 2:15 PM
"Soma Bland" is more like it... Yuck.
Posted by: hellothere at February 27, 2007 2:16 PM
The $900/SF initial pricing is wrong, everyone should be pleasantly surprised at where it will start.
Posted by: Any Given Individual at February 27, 2007 2:18 PM
How about Norman Foster? He got kicked to the curb by the Transbay committee, but his upcoming Jameson House in my hometown Vancouver is stunning.
I have to admit. This building is awesome and green.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 2:40 PM
Anon @ 1:55, not all of the feds are leaving Tenderloin offices, at least half (including myself) are coming from leased private office space in the financial district. That said, I wouldn't expect the 1700 or so federal employees and contractors to make much of a difference in this neighborhood unless more businesses move in. I and most employees I know will probably go from eating lunch out everyday to eating in the cafeteria or bringing from home due to the lack of decent places to eat near the new building. A few years ago everyone from GSA to the City was telling us that by the time we moved in there would be new restaurants, etc...but I don't see it happening anytime soon. There is potential for all of the new workers/condo owners to pump some money into businesses in the immediate vicinity, but there has to be someplace to spend that money.
Posted by: Fed at February 27, 2007 2:40 PM
Where it should start is somewhere in the $650/SF. That looks right for the building in that location.
Posted by: be at February 27, 2007 2:41 PM
" The thing I am amazed by is that land costs in downtown Chicago are higher than S.F., but what you get for your money is almost double in Chicago compared to "the city".
For about $550,000 you can get a two bedroom in a new tower there that would far surpass 1Rincon, Ifinity, or any of the other new towers currently going up"
I imagine if what you say is true about land cost this is the result of inclusionary housing req., fee exactions, and uncertain, lengthy planning process? We know Chicago is a union too so that isn't it
Any thoughts on what else might be at play here?
Posted by: zig at February 27, 2007 2:42 PM
The only other thing that comes to mind is construction costs due to earthquakes
Posted by: zig at February 27, 2007 2:44 PM
Yes, designing a tower for earthquakes does add to costs, and the permit process in Chicago is less expensive and lengthy. I should have said that land costs are about the same depending on location. There is also the whole "expectation" attitude of a Chicago buyer as well. They expect parking, pool, well designed lobby, views, and they will not pay San Francisco per square foot prices.
BTW, I have the music from the Jameson House project in Vancouver stuck in my head. Nice project. Annoying website music. Vancouver is an awesome city.
Posted by: Morgan at February 27, 2007 2:52 PM
Looks like a Ramada Inn somewhere near San Jose or any airport. Horrible.
Posted by: Bill at February 27, 2007 3:02 PM
The SOMA Grand’s ugliness is accentuated by the fact it’s near the really cool looking new federal building. I’d often looked up in the sky at the SOMA G and presume this blight was some corporate executive stay high rise, better designed for an airport service road.
The only way to get developers to stop building ugly buildings (like the soma grand), is for people to stop buying them. I called these buildings, (and many remodels.) WBOA - without benefit of architect. The design is price-driven by those whose only concern is the original sale of each unit.
Maybe we should make developers keep 25% of what they build for ten years. Perhaps then developers would care how these lackluster designs will perform long term in the marketplace, and see first hand how they effect the community.
Posted by: kathleen at February 27, 2007 3:25 PM
Speaking of "topping off" I don't know if it escaped anyone's attention or not, but the Infinity has been topped off now for about 2 weeks or so. It's funny though, because it doesn't seem like anyone really cares.
For instance, I know that when 1Rincon tops off, which is expected to occur in May/June (depending on weather), they plan to have a great big fancy bash and of course invite all of the future residents and friends.
I wonder if the Infinity is doing something like that as well? Seems like even if they wanted to, they really couldn't invite too many future residents as the building still has a great deal of units still left for sale.
Yeah, I know, this is supposed to be SOMA Grand discussion so I digress.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 4:03 PM
Well 1Rincon's marketing team (which is stellar for it's job in selling freeway onramp condos) will probably throw another blow out party to keep the flippers from walking away from their deposits. Different marketing companies, different strategies.
I don't recall Watermark throwing any kind of topping off party(or did they?).
At Infinity's construction pace, they'll finish the 2nd tower before we know it. I'm sure they'll have some special gathering or ceremony when they finish THE ENTIRE PROJECT, not just at the half way point...
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 4:15 PM
I think this project is strange in that Chip Conley in the past has been a very creative thinker/developer. This is sure a change from his early days and the Pheonix Hotel. I think some of his projects are rather successful in that he takes undesirable locations and changes the context. The Acqua Hotel off 101 in Mill Valley as an example. As for the SOMA "GRAND". There is simply no excuse for a building to look this ordinary, dull, and just plain ugly.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 4:17 PM
I can understand the narrow range that condo developers have to work in here. If only the SOMA GRAND design team had at least selected a color for the building skin more in keeping with the the cool gray tones of the Fed Building instead of that landlord prozac beige. There was a chance for it to be a quiet background building framing the Fed, instead of something ugly that is in the way.
Posted by: redseca2 at February 27, 2007 4:24 PM
Throwing a topping off party when the development is only halfway done makes no sense. It's like SomaGrand throwing a bash when it's only 8-9 stories high instead of 20. Makes no sense for 1Rincon unless it's true the 2nd tower is cancelled.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 4:25 PM
"Different marketing companies, different strategies."
No argument. The Infinity marketing company's strategy includes not selling units in a building that is "head and shoulders" above 1Rincon (and yes, the last part was said with extreme sarcasm).
It's so darn easy to draw out the disgruntled 1Rincon bashing bloggers. It's almost like shooting fish in a barrel. Thanks guys.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 4:32 PM
"Throwing a topping off party when the development is only halfway done makes no sense. It's like SomaGrand throwing a bash when it's only 8-9 stories high instead of 20. Makes no sense for 1Rincon unless it's true the 2nd tower is cancelled."
Alot of things don't make sense, including your comment above. Why don't brush up on your Socketsite reading. It's been made clear for well over a week now that [Removed by Editor] the building that has pushed its start date is the Californian on Rincon Hill.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 4:35 PM
Anon at 4.15pm has a point. Not bashing any project, but why throw a topping off party for a project that is halfway done? Seems more logical to throw a party when the project is 100% complete, not 50%...
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 4:40 PM
"Anon at 4.15pm has a point. Not bashing any project, but why throw a topping off party for a project that is halfway done? Seems more logical to throw a party when the project is 100% complete, not 50%..."
I would respectfully disagree. The 2nd tower was never contemplated to be built before the residents of tower I move in so having a topping off party once the 2nd tower is topped off makes absolutely no sense since the residents in tower I would likely have lived in the building for at least a year at that point.
Having a topping off celebration for each tower makes complete sense.
And besides, I think raising that point was just subterfuge to try and get another heated 1Rincon bashing convo going, which is so darn easy to to do on both sides (i.e., with respect to both the disgruntled bashers and the defenders).
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 4:52 PM
Anon at 4:03 PM needs to get a life. Why bring up 1Rincon's topping off party here??
This is about SomaGrand (and I want to hear about SomaGrand, not Infinity or 1Rincon).
Of course posting 1Rincon tidbits would incite a response. So why post? Please go post your issues in the 1Rincon blog from last week...
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 5:01 PM
Evidently we need a thread on Infinity/1Rincon every week.
Back to SOMA-G, can Any Given Individual from 2:18PM offer a hint at where pricing might start? Have there been any leaks?
Posted by: Dude at February 27, 2007 5:06 PM
As i said earlier, hopefully the developers will price them at $650/SF. How many fridge and washer/dryer can you give one unit????
If not, this place looks like a hotel waiting to happen. If you drive by Van Ness and Pine, this looks like another Holiday Inn.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 5:14 PM
"Anon at 4:03 PM needs to get a life. Why bring up 1Rincon's topping off party here??
This is about SomaGrand (and I want to hear about SomaGrand, not Infinity or 1Rincon).
Of course posting 1Rincon tidbits would incite a response. So why post? Please go post your issues in the 1Rincon blog from last week..."
Please don't cherry pick my post to suit your own view of reality. If you read carefully, you'll see that the only reason that I raised the issue was in the context of the Infinity, which was recently topped off.
It just seems to me that given the prominence of the Infinity project relative to SOMA Grand, it seemed strange that no one, including Socketsite (who is usually two steps ahead of the pack), made mention of this fact, particularly in light of the fact that so many units still remain available for sale.
[Editor’s Note: Please note that The Soma Grand actually topped-off last month and that we’re only mentioning it now as an aside to the VIP opening (the real scoop). And while it might already be too late, we’re going to try and rein in the non-Soma Grand comments before the wheels completely come off the bus…]
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 5:23 PM
TOPPING OFF PARTY
FYI - This is not a party held by sales agents at condo developments to lure buyers. Topping Off is the name of the project milestone marking the installation of the last piece of primary steel framing. This is a big milestone in the construction schedule. It is traditionally marked by the placement of a fir tree (like a christmas tree) at the top of the building, and sometimes, some sort of party. These "parties" tend to include mandatory hardhats, barbeque made in split 55 gallon drums, and are held on the structure usually in the cold, for the construction team plus a few lucky invited Owners and Architects and without a sales agent in sight.
Posted by: redseca2 at February 27, 2007 5:51 PM
Sounds like a lot of fun. Doubt they will allow owners anywhere near the unfinished building, but certainly the construction team should celebrate a job well done...
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 5:54 PM
Getting BACK to the SOMA Grand, I am curious what the HOA dues will be with them offering everything from Yoga classes, free Peets Coffee and Tea in the lobby, and maid service (I imagine that is an extra). Maybe the interior spaces will be better than the envelope, but this is a lost opportunity for doing something as creative as they claim this project is on their website. This whole Spa-Condo package thing is really getting popular with Canyon Ranch building a 65 story tower in Chicago, and N.Y.C. getting a bunch of new spa-condo projects going up. I am still trying to figure out what the advantage of choosing Soma Grand would be since it is certainly not in good exterior architecture.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 6:38 PM
With all the bashing about Infinity and One Rincon, for $900/SF, i'drather have either of the two than Soma BLAND!
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 7:10 PM
For 900/sqft? Definitely.
Though I'm not a fan of living right next to an onramp and freeway, I'll certainly choose Infinity and it's waterfront over the crime ridden, trash filled SomaGrand location.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 8:25 PM
I had thought SOMA Grand would have had much more competitive pricing than 900 bucks per sq.ft. I'd faint if I ever saw a decent and/or new anything in SF for $650/sq.ft. and I think it's pretty unrealistic to expect that, but at $900? Wow.
But at the same time, is it fair to compare this to the siblings on Rincon (and by siblings, along with its seemingly necessary rivalry, I mean One Rincon and Infinity)? Some people have suggested that at these prices, SOMA Grand won't be able to compete with those siblings. But can one get into One Rincon or Infinity at $900/sq.ft? Today, I mean--can you walk into the sales offices of those projects and get a unit at $900/sq.ft? I haven't checked in with the Infinity in a while, but when I did, there was nothing at that price (I didn't bother looking at anything north of 1 mil).
Getting back to SOMA Grand, here's a link to a video interview with one of SOMA Grand's developers: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2050469795342432185&hl=en
Posted by: 49Giants at February 27, 2007 8:47 PM
Saw the video with Alexis Wong. Yoga classes are a great selling feature. Not. What are the HOA dues going to be on this eyesore? By the way what was she thinking when she locked horns with Angelo Sangiacomo. Big mistake.
Posted by: Freddy at February 27, 2007 9:40 PM
For comparison, I just got a nice 10th floor unit at infinity for just over $750/sq ft. Not the best view, but a great condo and location for me and my budget.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 27, 2007 10:05 PM
Woh!! Did they hire some 80 year old Russian architect to lead the design team or something? This building reminds me those old communist buildings in China that are being torn down right now. Take a look at Ali Rahim’s work of the residential towers in Dubai or some of the recent projects done in Shanghai. This city needs to stop building things that look like they just came out of a prefabrication production line.
As far as pricing goes for this awfully located building, $650/sqft then I’m in. I’m curious what those agents who said “thanks to New York the housing market is turning around in a BIG way” are thinking after the stock market crash today. Please entertain us with some new theories.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 28, 2007 12:26 AM
Re: Video with developer Alexis Wong. This is an excellent example of the problem in San Francisco currently. What is this need for consensus for a project!? Why must various groups "come together" to agree on what kind of housing can be built and where. Soma Grand is an excellent example of how an interesting idea gets stamped down in this city until only a boring ugly project remains. A while back on this thread (before the Infinity vs. 1 Rincon stuff) someone asked about why if land costs are the same in Chicago, you can buy a new luxury condo in that city for about 600 sq. ft. in neighborhoods similar to Russian Hill and Pacific Heights. The reason is because that city makes things happen and fast. Consensus is not what Chicago wants, success and results is what drives their city government and planning agencies.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 28, 2007 5:13 AM
Wow I'm looking at this building and I'm thinking Holiday Inn Express, Quality Inn, Howard Johnson or any other bland hotel near SFO...
This building looks cheap, cheap, cheap. I thought Mission Bay was bland, but this building takes the cake.
Thank god this building is only a midrise...
Posted by: missionbay res at February 28, 2007 6:37 AM
One can find some perspective on the topping-off from the Developers somewhat self-absorbed and indulgent blog. http://www.agicapital.com/blog/2007/01/got_capped.html
Not sure where pricing is but word from good sources is that pricing will be moderate compared to Infinity and Rincon and that the HOA's will be far less than other hotel amenity providing condos.
Posted by: Any Given Individual at February 28, 2007 7:44 AM
Re design: Soma Grand is surprisingly dull - too much brick. too slabby. Ironically it looks like government housing while next door the feds upstaged it with great design & sizzle. Who can compete? Nothing terrible about a bland building in general (every building shouldn't be a showcase), and its plainness will be noted for a few years but 10 yrs hence there will be more context ~10 other tall bldgs (Market 10th; Market 7th, Van Ness Market intersection 30-40 stories, Fox Plaza East rights, etc...). It'll blend away.
But, I still want a top floor space looking up into the rooftop trusses of its fantastic neighbor next door.
Posted by: Invented at February 28, 2007 8:48 AM
At least the developer is kind enough to build this ugly WALL outside the city. What a boring way to cast a shadow. I hope they don't screw up on pricing part now, cuz if they do, they'll be stuck with them for a long and cold period to come. A friendly suggestion to the developer: sell it cheap! Build up the volume and move on...
Posted by: Anonymous at February 28, 2007 8:52 AM
We obviously underestimated the pent-up demand for discussion surounding The Infinity. And we’re crying uncle (sort of). Welcome to a new Infinity specific post: The Infinity: Pent-up Demand (For Discussion). And now back to the Soma Grand...
Posted by: SocketSite at February 28, 2007 9:17 AM
My first impression of SOMA Grand, once its skin was mostly on, was to yawn. I'm not in the camp that finds it ugly but it is quite dull.
However, something to remember, is that the side facing Trinity Plaza could be almost completely hidden - I think. Also, at its relatively low height its not exactly iconic in any case.
It also makes the Federal Bldg, already a great building in my opinion, look even better.
Posted by: CameronRex at February 28, 2007 10:13 AM
The SOMA Grand has mostly blocked my view of the new Federal Building. I hope that the new Trinity Plaza will in turn block the view of the SOMA Grand.
Posted by: Dan at February 28, 2007 12:30 PM
Maybe the Soma "Grand" will give us free passes to their complimentary Yoga classes to make up for plopping this pooper on our city. I am just curious, how ARE they going to sell these? I say anything over $400 a sq. ft. will flop.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 28, 2007 12:37 PM
I am wondering if Escrow on the units facing the new fed building will include a free Department of Homeland Security screening.
Posted by: redseca2 at February 28, 2007 2:22 PM
Just came back from another round of visiting different sales offices. Like most people predicted, prices are dropping fast...And from the increasingly desperate look on the sales persons' faces since last time I saw them, I feel the best is about to start. Give it another 6 months or so, we will see a lot more selections with whole lot better prices.
If SomaGrand starts selling at around $650/sqft, then they should be able to build up sales volume a little easier. What most developers, especially for large projects, fail to realize is that their best marketing tool is not their marketing team or the media, but their buyers themselves. March 7th, we’ll see if Mr. Chip Conley plays it out differently from the other projects we’ve seen.
Now to those agents who said BIG things are happening or prices are firming up, what the hell are you talking about???
Posted by: Anonymous at February 28, 2007 7:50 PM
PRICE PREDICTION. SOMA GRAND -NEAR 6 TH STREET- SELLS FOR 150-200 PSF LESS THAN INFINITY, ONE BLOC FROM EMBARCADERO. NO OTHER WAY SOMEONE BUYS THERE W/O THIS $$ SPREAD.
Posted by: realist at February 28, 2007 10:45 PM
"PRICE PREDICTION. SOMA GRAND -NEAR 6 TH STREET- SELLS FOR 150-200 PSF LESS THAN INFINITY, ONE BLOC FROM EMBARCADERO. NO OTHER WAY SOMEONE BUYS THERE W/O THIS $$ SPREAD. "
Let's see, infinity started selling right above $800/sqft. That puts SomaGrand to $600-$650/sqft. This price might not even get the buyers warmed up due to its far inferior location and being a much less desirable building. And that’s not to mention prices have fallen since last summer when Infinity came out and there’s much much much more new developments coming out this second half of the year than last year’s condition.
They'll have to sell it cheap enough to be able to build up some kind of momentum. People already dislike just about every feature of this project, location, the look, the plans, etc. Last thing they need is people spreading word that they are expensive. I think how they sell in their first month or two will set the pace for this entire project.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2007 2:19 AM
I was thinking what it would take for me to change my attitude towards the Soma Grand, and I think $650 sq. ft. is still high for that location. More than the dull architecture, I just would not want to "pioneer" down in that area for about $800,000. I myself would rather have a one bedroom in Infinity than a 2 bedroom in Soma "Grand".
Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2007 5:09 AM
$650 sq.ft for a corner high floor unit should attract a few buyers, but not many.
This project could be in a lot of trouble. One particular development in mission bay i know for a fact is in a deep deep hole right now and can't get out (I won't say who). I see another place turning into rentals very soon...It's just getting worse every day.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2007 6:08 AM
"This project could be in a lot of trouble. One particular development in mission bay i know for a fact is in a deep deep hole right now and can't get out (I won't say who). I see another place turning into rentals very soon...It's just getting worse every day."
You must be talking about Park Terrace and/or Arterra. Aren't they both only 10-15% reserved?
And both currently sell around $650-900/sqft, almost the same as SomaGrand. I'd much rather buy in relatively new MissionBay than trashy Mission and 8th for the same price...
Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2007 1:00 PM
One man's trash is another man's treasure. Mission bay might be cleaner, but it's sterile and feels more like a subdivision than an urban neighborhood. Not my idea of "city living". There's no question mid-Market is currently somewhat "trashy", but I do think it will develop into a true urban neighborhood that's not defined by chain stores (Borders, Quiznos, etc.).
Posted by: Anonymous at March 1, 2007 2:03 PM
Looks like the Beacon did well from a timing perspective. I don't think its rental white finishes (in the lower units) would do very well against the units built with the owner occupied level finishes that are for sale now and moving at a slow clip.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 2, 2007 2:44 PM
"You must be talking about Park Terrace and/or Arterra. Aren't they both only 10-15% reserved?
And both currently sell around $650-900/sqft, almost the same as SomaGrand. I'd much rather buy in relatively new MissionBay than trashy Mission and 8th for the same price..."
Both Park Terrace and Arterra are moving slower than a dying snail. But they are not the projects that I was talking about. There's one other place in particular that's in even worse condition. The developer will end up with a loss no matter what he does now. This is due to a number of reasons. The way the market is going just makes it twice more difficult for them.
They are reading this board. So I'll say to you guys again, turn this project into rentals rather than having to drop your price by another 20/30%. That way at least you could make friends with other developers by doing them a favor.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 5:27 AM
"Both Park Terrace and Arterra are moving slower than a dying snail. But they are not the projects that I was talking about. There's one other place in particular that's in even worse condition. The developer will end up with a loss no matter what he does now. This is due to a number of reasons. The way the market is going just makes it twice more difficult for them.
They are reading this board. So I'll say to you guys again, turn this project into rentals rather than having to drop your price by another 20/30%. That way at least you could make friends with other developers by doing them a favor."
Hmmm... You've peaked my interest. 235 Berry is another development but they are selling better. 188 King St is already renting some units. 170 Off Third just started selling and doing ok I guess. Palms(in soma) is not doing well and are renting some units, but a lot of owners already moved in.
What other development in Mission Bay is not doing well??
Posted by: Anonymous at March 4, 2007 10:50 PM
Maybe Socketsite can give some insight on this dying development?
Posted by: Anonymous at March 5, 2007 12:18 AM
I won’t name the project. The guys there are nice. There’s no reason and I didn’t intend to expose them this way to make it even more difficult for them. But I will tell you this, if you just got excited and think this might be an opportunity to jump in and get a great bargain and keep a unit there as an investment, don’t. Because I look through the inventory a couple of times a day and I’ve thought it through with this project. Even if you end up getting a 20% reduction from current asking price (which they won’t give), it’s still a bad investment. That’s why I think the developer made a series of mistakes from the beginning to end. The city certainly didn’t help either with its famous delays. My partners and I are being very patient. And I think anyone who is jumping all over the buy down rate or pre-release crap will kick themselves in the head in the near future. The housing market will be in an entirely different condition going into the winter this year and from there on.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 5, 2007 6:31 AM
"Maybe Socketsite can give some insight on this dying development?"
I'm guessing they already did: 310 Townsend?
Posted by: Anonymous at March 5, 2007 9:07 AM
Is 310 Townsend that bad? What % are they sold now?
Mission Bay is only so big so looks like Arterra, Park Terrace, and now 310 Townsend may be the black sheep in the Mission Bay family...
Posted by: Anonymous at March 5, 2007 11:52 AM
Well, 310 townsend has about 4/5 of their cheapest units reserved. This place is a love-it-or-hate-it type of project. It's moving very slowly as well because they just came out and their prices are still very high. But this project has plenty of room to reduce their price and the building itself is very different in style. It will most likely take a long time to push units away. But at the far end it should do ok. It's certainly not in the worst condition there is in mission bay right now.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 5, 2007 5:52 PM
Very creative... May be you make new design for my sites?
Posted by: Phillip at June 20, 2007 9:45 PM