What started with a “I know off topic BUT…” comment on yesterday’s post about the Soma Grand, has led to an Infinity specific (and reader led) discussion this morning. Enjoy. And thanks for “plugging in.”

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Comments from “Plugged-In” Readers

  1. Posted by be

    Does anyone know an accurate count on how many units are availbale at the Infinty.
    I know off topic BUT…

  2. Posted by Anonymous

    infinity tower one is half sold

  3. Posted by Anonymous

    My friend went to Infinity 2 weeks ago and they didn’t have much decent inventory to show him (translate – most of the good units are gone). He estimated they were 50-60% in contract.
    If SomaGrand takes Infinity as a gauge, then they should be pretty happy given the general weakness of the market (though the locations differ, it may not be a good comparison).

  4. Posted by Anonymous

    For comparison, I just got a nice 10th floor unit at infinity for just over $750/sq ft. Not the best view, but a great condo and location for me and my budget.

  5. Posted by Anonymous

    has anyone bought an unit at the Infinty for under $700k? I know one rincon had units in the $600′s.
    If I can get an one bedroom for $700k at the Infinty, I’d rather take this over soma grand.
    anyone know updated pricing on the infinty? cheap???

  6. Posted by InfinityBuyer

    “For comparison, I just got a nice 10th floor unit at infinity for just over $750/sq ft. Not the best view, but a great condo and location for me and my budget.”
    That’s a good deal for the 10th floor!
    I got a corner unit on the 32nd floor with bay views for $990/sqft late last summer. I don’t think you can get much for under $1000/sqft on the upper floors anymore, but there are still some decent deals on the lower floors and in the midrises. Prices at Infinity aren’t being reduced much. Last I heard things are really picking up there so they are holding their prices steady.
    700k will probably get you a 1 bdrm in the midrises. Not sure about the tower though…
    And yes, $900/sqft sounds a lot better at Infinity than at SomaGrand!

  7. Posted by Mike

    has anyone bought an unit at the Infinty for under $700k? I know one rincon had units in the $600′s.
    If I can get an one bedroom for $700k at the Infinty, I’d rather take this over soma grand.
    anyone know updated pricing on the infinty? cheap???
    I got a good-sized one bedroom in the midrise for under $800 sq/ft. When I looked there was still a 17th floor 1 bdrm at 1 Rincon for 625K, but I went with the Infinity for many reasons.

  8. Posted by Anonymous

    Last I checked, there was a 5th and 6th floor tower 2 bedroom unit available at the infinity for below $800. They are on the south side. Not a good view (your looking out at a 9 story midrise and down at the courtyard), but about 1200 sqft for a damn good price in a great building. I don’t remember the exact price, because I was looking at way to many units, but I do remember they were below 800k.

  9. Posted by Anonymous

    Any news from the The Mark Company’s luncheon for Infinity buyers agents at the St. Regis on February 22?

  10. Posted by Anonymous

    i think i was the one who kept on posting about the infinty over at the soma grand thread. i was hoping to see what people paid for their units.
    from what i can tell, the infinity has some decent deals. the 2 bedroom 1200/SF for under $800k sounds good.
    i went to the sales office after new years and there was NOTHING lower than $750k for an one bedroom.
    how are you getting these prices????
    someone wake me up when the soma grand sells for $600/SF….

  11. Posted by Mike

    from what i can tell, the infinity has some decent deals. the 2 bedroom 1200/SF for under $800k sounds good.
    I belive that was $800 sq/ft (960K). I also saw some nice 2 bdrms without much of a view for around 900K. I don’t think you can get a 2bdrm for under 800K anywhere in the Infinity.

  12. Posted by Anonymous

    Has anyone heard any further discussion/comment etc. regarding whether the second tower will be condo or rental?

  13. Posted by InfinityBuyer

    The second tower will be condos. Unless something crazy and unforeseen happens it’ll open for sales later this year. They anticipate the prices will be higher than the first which makes sense given the views will be better and the tower taller though not sure that makes total sense in a weak market…
    You can still get some 2 bedroom units in the lower floors for (3-7 I believe) around $800-900/sqft. Not bad considering some units in other developments in Mission Bay and SOMA go for higher. For 800K+, you can probably get a 2bedroom in the midrises. Again, not a bad deal considering the waterfront location…

  14. Posted by Anonymous

    When you look at what some other “ugly” Soma projects are charging for per sq. ft. costs in very marginal locations, the Infinity is a very good value, especially with the waterfront location. My question then is why didn’t they sell faster than 1 Rincon?

  15. Posted by rg

    Is there anyone out there who thinks that $800-$1000/sf is a RIP OFF?!?!
    I’m sick of these people talking about “decent deals.” Remember, San Franciscians, the national average is about $100/sf.
    I’d love to hear from some of these recent purchasers what their salary is. Come on, you’re anonomous on here, let us in on the income it takes to buy a $750k condo, InfinityBuyer!

  16. Posted by Anonymous

    I believe 1Rincon’s blow out presale party took place a few weeks before Infinity started selling. They may have sap some of the demand from the market. When you get 200+ reservations in a short amount of time, it’ll have some effect given they’re both competing for the same demographics and both located a few blocks apart…
    Having said that, Infinity has been quietly plugging away at a nice pace compared to other developments in the city (i.e. Palms, Watermark, Beacon, Alterra, etc…). When compared to them, Infinity’s sales (currently 50-60% and picking up) are quite respectable…

  17. Posted by InfinityBuyer

    I don’t know what income it takes to buy a 750k unit, but I’m preapproved for my corner unit on the 30-something floor. Believe it or not, there is demand for highrise living in SF. A lot of the buyers are from overseas and are keeping them as second homes. My relative from Hong Kong has a second home in Nob Hill that she’s visits a few times a year. It’s more common than many folks think. Watermark and the Met are other examples of high rises that eventually sold out and we’re not seeing prices crashing down. The majority of these people keep their units. The few flippers we see seem to get all the attention…

  18. Posted by Anonymous

    “Having said that, Infinity has been quietly plugging away at a nice pace compared to other developments in the city (i.e. Palms, Watermark, Beacon, Alterra, etc…). When compared to them, Infinity’s sales (currently 50-60% and picking up) are quite respectable…”
    No it isn’t. I’ve been told by their sales people 3/4 different times over a few months apart about how much they sold, and the answer has always been 50-60%. I don’t think I need to explain why that type of answer makes me feel unrespected while they were saying how fast they’d been selling at the same time.

  19. Posted by tipster

    Oh goodness, I was under the understanding that there were 0 “sales”. I thought people just put down 5% deposits. If prices fall by 5%, or they can’t get the creative financing they were counting on, they walk away from the deposits or 2/3 of the deposits.
    Call me when people start taking out mortgages and then we’ll see how many are actually sold. I realize that some people may have received more advantageous pricing than others, and are less likely to walk, but not everyone received those prices. And some of the people with the best prices are going to have to pay a much bigger premium to get the creative financing they were counting on than they originally intended, causing them to sell as soon as they can.
    So at 50% sold today, if they make it to 60% and then 20% of the option holders walk, they are down to 48%. The developer isn’t going to rent 52% or even anywhere close to it because he’d never be able to sell them later: banks won’t loan to a place that has that kind of rental percentage.
    That will be the time to get the best deals. That developer will be forced to sell, having been completely unable to rent, and he’ll want to sell in a hurry. The next best time will be when the flippers have to sell, being crushed under the weight of much higher-priced creative financing than they ever intended when the plunked down the 5%.
    The worst time to buy is when the hype is on full throttle. The best time to buy is when blood is running in the streets. That day isn’t looking too far in the future.

  20. Posted by Me

    I’d love to hear from some of these recent purchasers what their salary is. Come on, you’re anonomous on here, let us in on the income it takes to buy a $750k condo, InfinityBuyer!
    2 incomes–200K, plan to sell a unit we already have and put down about 200K (so 450K mortgage). Expensive, yes. But most of the rental stock in SF is really crappy, and the stuff that’s nice costs almost as much as buying. Besides–I’m too old to rent.

  21. Posted by Anonymous

    I don’t know if that 50-60% number is accurate, but I was there last week and they didn’t have any decent 2bd to show me and my wife. Now of course what is decent is in the eye of the beholder, but seems most of the mid and upper floors are reserved.
    I’m not sure what the exact % is, but seems they are holding prices firm and what they do have is not much…
    By the way, this socketsite is great!!

  22. Posted by Anonymous

    To overseas buyers, SF condos are attractive given the exchange rate. I’m surprised there aren’t even more Europeans buying now since the dollar is weak. The British pound is almost twice as much as the dollar.

  23. Posted by missionbay res

    I pay $4000+ for a small 2 bedroom apartment in MissionBay. It’s in a luxury complex but man, that’s a lot to pay and it’s not tax deductable.
    I know living in SF stretches a lot of incomes, but we all just have to deal with it.
    For the people constantly complaining (tipster), why live here then?? You can get a huge 3000sqft 5 bedroom home in Antioch for the price of a 1-2 condo in SF. Or better yet, move to Texas and get even more.
    Bottom line is if you want to live in one of the great cities in the world with it’s world class restaurants, unique neighborhoods, culture, arts, etc of course it’s gonna cost more. We just have to shut up and deal with it…

  24. Posted by Anonymous

    “My question then is why didn’t they sell faster than 1 Rincon?”
    Pretty simple. Price points and a better marketing strategy. Infinity wins the location debate hands down and just to put it in perspective, I bought a 20th floor 2-2 unit facing toward downtown and Twin Peaks at 1Rincon for $842/sqft with full upgrades.
    Now I don’t want to get a big thing started here, so I’ll preface this by saying, this is just my OPINION, but I looked at both projects very carefully and while I ultimately went with 1Rincon because of a much lower price, I also really didn’t care for the floor plan offerings or the finishings at the Infinity.
    They were just so blah and since I’m not a flipper, I actually care about those things. And again, just to show that I am not being overly biased, I don’t think there’s any question that the Infinity has a much better location and the tower itself is architecturally more appealing to the eye than the 1Rincon tower.
    But again, since I’m not a flipper and I plan to spend most of time while at home inside the condo as opposed to out in front on the street admiring the building itself, that was something that I really didn’t care about ultimately.
    I think both projects are great and anyone who is fortunate enough to snag one will be very happy with their purchase.

  25. Posted by Anonymous

    “Is there anyone out there who thinks that $800-$1000/sf is a RIP OFF?!?!”
    Have you seen the prices at other world-class cities? Compared to NY, London, Hong Kong, $800-1000/sqft for a comparable unit would be dirt cheap in those cities…

  26. Posted by Paul Hwang

    I’ve represented 6 different buyers who have bought at the Infinity in the last week. They all got great deals. It’s true that the Infinity commands a premium, however I feel there still remains some unique units that are very, very well priced. I did attend the Broker luncheon at the St. Regis with Alan Mark, Bernardo (the architect), and Tishman Speyer, but it was mostly a social event with no real news. They did mention however an impending price hike.

  27. Posted by Dude

    “Is there anyone out there who thinks that $800-$1000/sf is a RIP OFF?!?!”
    No comment, although seems many have forgotten that new construction in SOMA was going for $400/sq.ft. just 5 years ago.
    “Compared to NY, London, Hong Kong, $800-1000/sqft for a comparable unit would be dirt cheap in those cities…”
    That’s great. But we’re not NY, London, or Hong Kong. Those cities have economies and populations that dwarf ours by multiples. We don’t have the jobs, incomes, or density they do. Granted, there’s a large economy which is spread throughout the greater Bay Area, but our city’s main industry is tourism.
    As much as I love San Francisco, it’s in a different league, and economically more comparable to Boston, Seattle, Chicago, or Vancouver.

  28. Posted by Anonymous

    Thank you Dude for putting this whole “World Class” crap to rest. What is it about San Francisco that thinks that it has to constantly compare itself to NY, London, Hong Kong , etc. when it is in a whole different league. The largest city in Northern California is San Jose, and the economic power center of the Bay Area shifted to the Peninsula and South a long time ago. Don’t believe me, look at the traffic heading south along 101 and 280 at 7a.m.

  29. Posted by Anonymous

    Paul, care to indulge what units are available and at what prices?

  30. Posted by Anonymous

    What is it about San Francisco that thinks that it has to constantly compare itself to NY, London, Hong Kong , etc. when it is in a whole different league.
    Other than local real estate agents/brokers, do you know anybody that actually lives here and compares SF to these other cities? I don’t. I do, however, know more than a few people who came here to escape the grind of NY despite leaving behind much higher incomes.
    I think San Francisco is “world class”, but for lifestyle not incomes.

  31. Posted by Anonymous

    Paul, can you also tell us what kind of units your clients bought? Price????

  32. Posted by Anonymous

    PARKING AT INFINITY: I have not heard any discussion of the discount for not getting parking with your unit, but I know that when I put my deposit at Infinity, I had the option to take $75k off the sale price and lose my parking.
    I have no idea how this would effect sale price, but this seams like a TON of money to pay for a parking spot. Considering this, there are plenty of parking free units available at the infinity for below $800k.

  33. Posted by Willow

    ” The largest city in Northern California is San Jose, and the economic power center of the Bay Area shifted to the Peninsula and South a long time ago. Don’t believe me, look at the traffic heading south along 101 and 280 at 7a.m.”
    Excellent point! Living downtown San Francisco would be fantastic but like many professionals I have to commute down to the Peninsula for work so it’s not a realistic option. Additionally, one of the things that most people don’t always factor in is that the city is not even considered a major financial center in the US anymore. A lot of finance related jobs that were here less than 10 years ago have more or less permanently gone with the disappearance of Bank of America, the Pacific Stock Exchange and all of the boutique Investment Banks.

  34. Posted by Paul Hwang

    Because of my fiduciary responsibility to my clients, I cannot reveal any of the terms for units currently in escrow.
    However I would be grateful for the opportunity to advise anyone on the purchase of one of the remaining units at the Infinity. There are some very compelling units remaining (that include parking).
    I do not advise giving up your parking space for $75K.
    In the case of the Infinity I would be representing Buyers and for that reason it would be inappropriate for me to comment on the Infinity’s pricing to the general public. I currently have 25 escrows open with 22 of them in South Beach, so I feel comofortable with my knowledge of the immediate market in South Beach. That being said, I believe there are several remaining units at the Infinity that are at a significant discount to the market.
    You should contact your Real Estate Broker to advise you on what might best fit your needs. If he/she works a little he will find you a deal eventually.

  35. Posted by Anonymous

    “Additionally, one of the things that most people don’t always factor in is that the city is not even considered a major financial center in the US anymore. A lot of finance related jobs that were here less than 10 years ago have more or less permanently gone with the disappearance of Bank of America, the Pacific Stock Exchange and all of the boutique Investment Banks.”
    I think this is the great unspoken truth about “the city” and that is that most of these new luxury units are not being built for those who made their fortunes working here, but rather they are boutique units for people from other areas (including the Peninsula) to collect. I would be curious how many of the units in Infinity and 1Rincon will be for those who actually still “work”, and if so, do they work in “the city”. Since San Francisco’s #1 industry is tourism, how is that supposed to create high paying jobs? Oh, I forgot, we are the gay porn capitol now according to the Chronicle last week.

  36. Posted by S

    You people have such little confidence in the City in which you live.
    San Francisco is definitely a world-class city and has been since the Gold Rush. Being in real estate, you’d want to educate yourself about many of the facets that make the city so dynamic. Don’t want to just quote wikipedia, but there are many substantive citations here as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city
    San Francisco is smaller than the other “world cities” but county lines are rather arbitrary these days, it’s about metros. Do you think Miami is not significant because it only has ~300k people? San Francisco is a cultural powerhouse, the financial center, the governmental and legal center of the West Coast the list goes on. Just because one bank was bought out doesn’t mean anything. The movements, both social and political that have started here, along with its position as the tech center of the country, ensure its global status. It is the center of an enormous population, the fourth largest media market, second only to NY in F500s in the metro, second in publishing after NY, and the base of major court, banking, and government districts in the US, just look at how many companies are here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_headquartered_in_San_Francisco%2C_California

  37. Posted by rg

    InfinityBuyer: how can you not know what size salary it takes to buy a condo at the Infinity if you are “preapproved for a unit on the 32nd floor”??? I’m asking you what you make to be able (or think that you are able) to afford that mortgage.
    Dude: Thank you for debunking this comparision to other “world-class” cities. I think that SF has a great culture, but come on – similar to NYC, London or Hong Kong??? The biggest difference is that NYC and Hong Kong have completely built out their landmass. Maybe after these 80 story towers go up all over SF, we can justify a rise in sf price. By the way, I have a few friends who’ve bought in NYC for $500/sf. It may be in Hell’s Kitchen, but it’s the center of MANHATTAN! You can all also look up posh SOHO lofts on line – many of them are $1000/sf. I would take a 3000sf/$3million SOHO loft over the Infinity anyday. Actual comparable cities to SF are all less than $400/sf

  38. Posted by Paul Hwang

    rg,
    I have to disagree with you on several points:
    1) San Francisco is a great, great city. Superior on an overall basis to NYC, London or Hong Kong. EZ access to Napa, Lake Tahoe and Monterey. Leading Research institutions such as UCSF, UCB and Stanford provide an intellectually stimulating environement. Also, let’s not forget the incredible weather we have in the Bay Area (envied by New Yorkers and Londoners). Lastly I would argue we have one of the newest, strongest and most diverse economic bases in the world. This is all contained within the strongest nation in the world under the flag of Free Speech and Freedom (HK = Communists).
    2) Appreciation (price/sf) is only going to be determined by two things: Income and Population. If they both rise so will prices. That’s simple economics and why land has always been the basis of all wealth: it’s a hedge against inflation. I don’t think you can have a compelling argument about land prices without first discussing the foreign exchange, local economy and local income demographics of individual micromarkets.
    Respctfully,
    Paul

  39. Posted by tipster

    For the people constantly complaining (tipster), why live here then??
    I have never complained about the expense of living here. I question the long term values, which, if people had asked those same questions during the previous bubble, might have saved themselves a lot of grief. But I am a firm believer in the law of supply and demand. That applies to the here and now and in the future.
    It doesn’t matter whether SF is a world class city or an armpit, as long as supply is lower than demand at a given price, prices rise, and they fall if it is greater. I can’t remember a time in recent history when so many units were coming on the market, and just at the same time as mortgages were getting harder to get.
    When that happens, supply is likely to be greater than demand and prices tend to fall. They will fall furthest on pets.com type assets that have far lower intrinsic value than their price. Traditionally, ugly buildings next to a freeway have been valued in a similar fashion to companies that only lost money and had no profit potential, which is to say, lower than the rest, so I tend to pick on that building.
    But lots of people bought pets.com stock at high prices anyways, so a little hucksterism, greed and emotions can go a long way towards convincing people to act irrationally. And I have nothing but respect for the marketing geniuses at one particular building at Rincon that I have repeatedly expressed. The same respect I had for the brokers who pumped up the stock market and got all those people to pay outrageous amounts for things that were unlikely to have any lasting value.
    Speaking of pumping the markets, have we moved off of Google employees, whose stock is down 10% in the last couple of weeks, to some mysterious foreigners, as people who are going to keep buying real estate? I just want to make sure I get my story straight.

  40. Posted by Anonymous

    I make $220k and bought at The Infinity for $850k. I’ll put down between 10%-20%, I have not decided.
    I also hope to pay part of the HOA dues by renting my parking space. Not sure what I can get, but hoping for $300+.

  41. Posted by Mike

    Speaking of pumping the markets, have we moved off of Google employees, whose stock is down 10% in the last couple of weeks, to some mysterious foreigners, as people who are going to keep buying real estate? I just want to make sure I get my story straight.
    Funny, I read a number of blogs about Vancouver real estate (where I have a place) and they are full of the same observations about who’s going to be buying the condos (one day it’s the rich Americans, then it’s the rich South Koreans).
    My own personal thought is that city condos (NY, SF, vancouver, …) are becoming places where people park their money for a while. Kind of like T bills or whatever. I really don’t think there’s that many people actually living in this units fulltime.

  42. Posted by InfinityBuyer

    rg, you ask me how much to quality for 750k.
    Your comment to me:
    “I’d love to hear from some of these recent purchasers what their salary is. Come on, you’re anonomous on here, let us in on the income it takes to buy a $750k condo, InfinityBuyer!”
    Mine is well over a million not 750k and I have 300k down payment and our (me and wife) salary combine is approx. 275k/year. So according to our lender we more than quality for our condo. Actually our lender said we don’t need to put the full 300k down if don’t want to.
    Anymore questions? Want to know my FICO score??

  43. Posted by Dude

    I love SF as much as everybody else, but some of you need to be realistic. Like it or not, LA is the big elephant of the left coast in most respects. I’m not a fan of LA, but the greater LA metro area has nearly 20 million people – that’s half our state and almost 7% of our nation. It is the west coast’s New York City, albeit horizontal rather than vertical. We are the west coast’s Boston.
    “Just because one bank was bought out doesn’t mean anything.” True. But don’t forget that BofA is not just some bank – it’s the nation’s largest bank and employed over 5,000 people here in the city. Others that had a significant presence here but are now gone include Montgomery Securities, Robbie Stephens, and Hambrecht & Quist. And First Republic was recently bought by Merrill Lynch. That’s a lot of high paying jobs moving to the east coast over the last decade. Pacific Stock Exchange has moved to LA and the old building is a gym now. The only banks left here are Wells Fargo and UCB, which are commercial banks, not investment banks, and don’t pay large bonuses like Wall Street shops.
    And I believe the tech capital of the country is 40 miles south of the city.
    We do have some great schools here. But so do cheaper cities like Boston (Harvard, MIT), and Chicago (UoC, Northwestern).
    We all obviously love San Francisco and wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. But let’s not be blinded by love: the city is not the economic powerhouse it once was.
    But Paul’s second comment is spot-on: “Appreciation (price/sf) is only going to be determined by two things: Income and Population.”
    Last article I saw on the topic said that California was losing more people than it was gaining. And if incomes here can really support these housing prices in a sustainable way, why is this map red?
    http://www.businessweek.com/common_ssi/map_of_misery.htm

  44. Posted by Michael

    “Because of my fiduciary responsibility to my clients, I cannot reveal any of the terms for units currently in escrow.”
    That makes sense, so how about listing just the unit numbers? At least then I’d be able to gauge the veracity of your claims.
    “In the case of the Infinity I would be representing Buyers and for that reason it would be inappropriate for me to comment on the Infinity’s pricing to the general public.”
    That makes no sense. I could see how it might be “inappropriate” if you were representing the Infinity or even if multiple bidders were actively competing for a limited number of units, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Again, some actual information might help me gauge the veracity of your claims.

  45. Posted by Anonymous

    Paul, how bout just letting us know the units and prices of the still available units at Infinity? Thanks.

  46. Posted by Anonymous

    Regarding the comments by “S”, have you ever heard of that city about 450 miles south called LOS ANGELES!!! You know, metro area of about 13.5 million. You claim S.F. is the cultural and financial center of the West, are you kidding. There are more museums, banks, fortune 500 companies, media, entertainment, etc. in the L.A. area that I could begin to count.
    That being said, I live in Lucas Valley in Marin County and would not give it up for anywhere else, but please, let us keep some perspective on the relative place of San Francisco on the world stage. Its a great place to live, but the world does not revolve around us, and San Francisco’s standing even here in Northern California is shrinking compared to San Jose and the Peninsula.

  47. Posted by Morgan

    Dude, thanks for posting the “Misery” map. Now THAT is something to loose sleep over! It looks like California is in for a very rough ride and all of the real estate agent San Francisco boosterism and slick marketing for slick towers cannot stop the freight train that is coming down the tracks.

  48. Posted by Paul Hwang

    It’s inappropriate for me to represent what the seller of the Infinity (Tishman Speyer), is selling specific units for, as they are represented by the Mark Company. If I did start to post prices for specific units, this may be interpreted by the lay public that I was representing the Infinity, which I am not.
    If I am discussing strategy/pricing with my Buyer client that is different, but to broadcast the information to the world would be capricious at best.

  49. Posted by Anonymous

    “Paul, how bout just letting us know the units and prices of the still available units at Infinity? Thanks.”
    Guys, don’t get excited just because a real estate agent said somewhere has some good deals. Agent Paul here won’t answer your question. The reason is that some of us actually know what would be a good deal at the infinity if given. And he should know these “good deals” do not exist, at least not now.
    If you must get an answer to your question, however, simply ask ANY agent that works in the area. And every one of them will have the “sweetest deals” ready for you.

  50. Posted by Anonymous

    “It’s inappropriate for me to represent what the seller of the Infinity (Tishman Speyer), is selling specific units for…”
    Well, Paul, instead of giving out their prices (which really just takes anyone a phone call), why not simply tell us what you think is a great deal? Who knows, maybe you see something in Infinity that people don’t see beyond the price tags.

  51. Posted by InfinityBuyer

    “I make $220k and bought at The Infinity for $850k. I’ll put down between 10%-20%, I have not decided.
    I also hope to pay part of the HOA dues by renting my parking space. Not sure what I can get, but hoping for $300+.”
    Do you mine indulging the approx. floor, # of bedrooms, and sqft of your unit? Just curious…
    Also $300/month is reasonable. Renting a car space at the Avalon complex in Mission Bay is currently $300/month.

  52. Posted by Michael Novia

    On average it takes about $25k in income to borrow $100k. That of course depends on your credit, interest rate, and mortgage program.
    I have a client who is buying at the Infinity. Got a fair deal on a 1 bed on the 4th floor. They will offer credits plus appliances.
    The PPSF at the Infinity appears to be in line with other comparable, full service, South Beach buildings.
    As far as San Francisco goes, as a world class city, a survey of 15,255 people from 20 counties was published today. SF ranked #7 in the world, NY 5, DC 6, LA 15.

  53. Posted by Anonymous

    Anonymous 6:47: I’m between 8-12th floor, 2 bedroom, about 1,200 sqft. I was trying to decide between 1Rincon and the Infinity; at this point, although both are very nice buildings, I feel very good about my decision.

  54. Posted by exH&Qer

    Dude, there are plenty of investment firms still in SF and new ones have started up. It’s not as if all the ex-employees of your above mentioned banks suddenly all left after their firms were bought. There’s still a large concentration of tech companies in the Bay Area in need of i-banking and all the major Wall Street firms have investment bankers, research analysts, & trading operations located in SF. Goldman Sachs, Lehman, Bear Stearns, Citigroup, JPMorgan, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, UBS, etc. SF is also headquarters to one of the largest asset managers in the world who has been growing & hiring like a weed – Barclays Global Investors. In other words, Wall Street money is still abundant in little ol’ SF. Let’s not forget about the venture capital and private equity firms. Plenty of banking money sloshing around SF

  55. Posted by Dan

    It’s ridiculous to say that because SF is much smaller than NYC in population, or because the #1 industry is tourism, that that somehow means homes should be cheap.
    Aspen, CO has only 5,000 residents, and its only industry is tourism. The average price for a single family home in Aspen is now $5,250,000.

  56. Posted by Anonymous

    “Anonymous 6:47: I’m between 8-12th floor, 2 bedroom, about 1,200 sqft. I was trying to decide between 1Rincon and the Infinity; at this point, although both are very nice buildings, I feel very good about my decision.”
    $850k for a 1200SqFt unit = $708/SqFt. That seems too low for Infinity. I think the lowest we saw so far is around $800/SqFt for the lowest floors. Are you sure you weren’t talking about $850/SqFt instead?

  57. Posted by Anonymous

    Dan – It’s actually 1,162 Sqft (I was just giving a ballpark), so that is what, $731/Sqft. Still a pretty good deal if I do say so myself; of course, my view not the best around.
    Last I checked, unit 5A (1,163 Sqft) is available for $900k. So that is still pretty good at 773/Sqft.

  58. Posted by Paul Hwang

    Thank you for posting anon at 7:47 AM, it’s saved me from being in awkward situation. In answer to everyone’s question as to what I think is a “good” deal, I think you would qualify!
    To anon at Feb 28 6:29 PM: Life is good, not everyone is out to cheat you.

  59. Posted by Dude

    I love how people here throw out these random factoids to justify what they’ve already accepted as the truth, without any backups to boot. It’s like San Francisco “Mythbusters”
    You may be right – I just want you to prove it to me. Can you post a link to this survey of 15,000 people? Who are they? Are they willing/able to buy in the city? Does their opinion even matter? I recently participated in a survey and opined that Ferrari was a more presigious brand than Lamborghini. But I’ll never own either.
    True, there is still a lot of finance left in the city and Bay Area. But it’s comprised of boutiques and satellite offices employing a handful of people. I believe there are fewer people working in finance now, by a wide margin, than there were when BofA, Montgomery, Robbie Stephens, and H&Q were headquartered here. Please show me something to the contrary if I’m wrong and finance payrolls have not gone down.
    Housing in Aspen being $5MM? According to their local paper, you can buy a 3-bedroom home in the area for around $400K:
    http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20070221/NEWS/102210042

  60. Posted by Anonymous

    I agree with Dude, and would say that Montgomery Street may claim to be the “Wall Street of the West”, (Which it was about 50 years ago), but I feel more financial power coming from Sand Hill Road in Palo Alto. Regarding Finance jobs, not only has Los Angeles and the South Bay eclipsed San Francisco’s standing, but so has Seattle.
    As for Infinity, these prices you are posting are making me want to go back and take a second look at this project. I always thought it was attractive, liked the floorplans, and liked the location, but felt it was out of my range since I cannot go above $900,000. This is interesting news indeed.

  61. Posted by Anonymous

    Anyone have the prices for upper floor units? For example, what’s the going $$ for units 20 floors or higher? I’d like to get a unit with views, but not willing to mortgage my life…

  62. Posted by M

    RE: San Francisco as a “World Class” city
    I think people are getting confused about their geography here. Silicon Valley, along with Stanford, is *not* located in San Francisco, and should not be used as a justification for the status of San Francisco. If anything, Silicon Valley should be claimed by San Jose.

  63. Posted by rg

    Paul: I agree with your comments on appreciation. Only problem is that SF lost 50,000 residents last year, Californians as a whole are moving out of state, and incomes in SF only rose 1.6% last year, which inflation completely cancels out. Let’s face it, the Infinity is only going to be full of mid six-figure people, and that’s not my reality or 89% of San Franciscian’s reality. Enjoy living there, but accept it if your condo only depreciates.

  64. Posted by amused

    All of these attempts to prove whether SF is or is not a “world-class” city based on quantifiable facts are silly. Fun to read, but silly regardless.
    Compelling arguments can be made that SF is world-class (rankings, travel popularity, culture, etc.). Compelling arguments can be made that SF has seen better days and has a fading relevance (San Jose, investment banking, Pacific Stock Exchange). I’ve lived here for about 12-13 years, and take whichever side of the argument my mood dictates. Fiscally speaking, I’m in the world class camp: I choose to live here, I own my home, and according to my year-end AmEx statement I spent over $45k in restaurants last year (granted — a good chunk of that was business-related).
    The fact remains that there are two camps: those who currently own and want to preserve and enhance value, and those who currently rent and want the world to come crashing down — at which point they buy, and join the other camp (Dude and tipster – don’t take this personally).

  65. Posted by Dude

    I can’t speak for tipster, but I DO NOT want the market to come crashing down. If it did, my partner and I would likely both get laid off and have to relocate to find work. And we like it here.
    I’m only trying to point out that the past 5 years were a huge aberration in real estate markets, including San Francisco, and prices are disconnected from economic fundamentals, as evidence by the Map of Misery above.
    But if those of you in camp 1 can sustain the market by trading properties between yourselves, back and forth, then kudos. Otherwise prices will need to come down 10-15% to allow camp 2 to join the game and restore balance. If that does happen, it’ll happen slowly over 1-2 years. Real estate does not “crash.”

  66. Posted by Anonymous

    I bought around the 40th floor in 1RH because I liked the views and floorplans better and, of course, the prices were a lot cheaper – though it sounds like the Infinity’s prices have come down a bit. I paid $1.2m for almost 1300 ($940/sq ft) – when I was looking there was nothing in the Infinity for less than $1,000 sq ft with a decent view. I like the Infinity better, but felt 1RH was a better value.
    For the poster interested in how much money people make, I make about $500k per year, only putting down $250k.

  67. Posted by Anonymous

    Anon at 11:21 AM, what floors were you looking at where you didn’t find anything for less than $1000/SqFt at Infinity? I’m trying to see what’s the highest floors I can get for less than $1000/SqFt. Thanks.

  68. Posted by Anonymous

    amused – Those are definitely two camps, but it’s shortsighted and inflammatory to suggest they’re the only two. I’m currently renting and think there’s a very good chance that housing will depreciate over the next couple of years, but I’m still actively looking for a place to buy and call home for the next 5-10 years, and I honestly hope the market doesn’t come “crashing down”. You must remember how grim the city felt after the dot-com bust. It’ll be much worse and affect many more if local housing should tank.

  69. Posted by Anonymous

    In response to “Anon at 11:21 AM,”
    I was looking around the 30th floor at the Infinity. The floorplan I liked (north facing unit with wall to wall terrace was $1.8m for less than 1300 sq ft. The regular corner units were around $1000 per sq ft, but I couldn’t deal with the curved living/dining space because unlike many other people, I actually have a big dining table that I think should fit into a $1.3m condo. That said, if the Millenium is really under $1000 per sq ft, I’d buy there.

  70. Posted by Anonymous

    If I may try to help out Dude a bit, I think he was responding to posts that were trying to justify the high cost of housing in San Francisco by claiming that these steep prices were really a “Bargain” when compared to “similar” world class cities such as New York, London and Hong Kong. This is of course nonsense, as we are nowhere near the size or economic diversity of those cities. I do not want S.F. to come “crashing down” either, but I would like the people of this city to travel a little bit more to see that the world does not revolve around our city. Dude’s comment about L.A. being NYC of the West and we are more like Boston is correct.

  71. Posted by SF Living

    FYI regarding Millenium, the construction is going very, very slow compared to Infinity and 1Rincon.
    As a comparison, both Infinity and Millenium started construction around 12/05. Infinity has topped off at 37 stories, Millenium is only at 12 stories! Don’t know what the hold up is, but they’re moving at a snails pace.
    This website has them opening sales in 08 and finishing in mid 09. More than a year behind Infinity and 1Rincon. Strange….
    http://southofmarkethomes.wordpress.com/tag/millenium-tower/
    [Editor’s Note: Our last update and readers’ comments on the Millennium tower: Millennium Tower San Francisco (301 Mission): Interest List]

  72. Posted by Anonymous

    Speaking of Infinity, I reserved a corner unit on an upper floor(28+) for $1000/SqFt. It has nice pano bay and city views that won’t be blocked. Jokes aside, is this a good deal??
    I feel pretty good about it given the high floor, corner unit, and nice views. Just little concern about the weakening market…

  73. Posted by Anna

    I feel pretty good about it given the high floor, corner unit, and nice views. Just little concern about the weakening market…
    If you like it, can afford it, and plan on living in it for the next 5-10 years then feel good about it and don’t sweat it. If not…

  74. Posted by I-info

    Here were some prices back in August:
    Building B (tower)
    9F – $1.16M
    10F -$1.1M
    12F – $1.2M
    17F – $1.35M
    34F – $1.980
    6G – $1.22
    17H – $1.35 (same floorplan as 6G)
    8G – $1.275
    16D -$1.32
    6C – $1.44
    Building C (Main Treetop)
    4E -$960K
    6E – $1.12M
    8B – $1.53M
    Building A (Spear Treetop)
    7D – $1.7M
    3B – $1.2M (same floorplan as the 4-6D)
    I suspected they’ve lowered some of the prices since August. Anyone know?

  75. Posted by Anonymous

    “If you like it, can afford it, and plan on living in it for the next 5-10 years then feel good about it and don’t sweat it. If not…”
    Thanks, I feel pretty good about it though I may only hold it 2-3 years instead of 5-10. But that 2-3 years starts in early 08, so by 2010 or 2011, who knows maybe the market stablizes and starts a slow but steady recovery…

  76. Posted by Anonymous

    I-info, thanks for the information. Since most of the tower units were in the teen floors or lower, were most of the upper units already reserved? Any pricing on the upper floors?
    I believe some of the lower floors may have been lowered, but the uppers floor prices held steady.

  77. Posted by noname

    @9:30 Seems like you have this down pretty well.
    PR firm?

  78. Posted by I-Info

    I didn’t look much into the higher floors, so don’t know pricing for those.
    What do folks think of the treetops (value, layout, ease/difficulty of resale), particularly the 2 and 3 bedrooms?

  79. Posted by Anonymous

    Looking at some of the midrise floorplans, on the 3rd floor:
    3A-2bd Bedrooms are on the opposite ends and there’s a den for an office which is nice. The second bedroom doesn’t seem to have a window though, which is strange. I wouldn’t pick this one…
    3B-2bd have the best floorplan. At almost 1400sqft, there’s a large den and long hallways that really isolates the living room/kitchen areas from the bedrooms. And there’s large pano windows in every room.
    On the 7th and 8th floor, the A and B 3bd units have x-tra large terraces and spacious living/dining areas. I would go with these if I had a choice…

  80. Posted by Anonymous

    If you do not mind me joining in, the 7th and 8th floor A and B 3bds are fabulous. I had not noticed those units before myself and the large terraces could be very nice. I still think Infinity has some of the most interesting floorplans of all of the tower projects. I was orginally interested in “The Californian” myself, but I guess that is a no-go so I am thinking about Infinity also, but would only need a 2bd.

  81. Posted by just me

    The terrace space alone on the B units on the 7-8 floor look to be 800-1000 square feet. That’s almost like having your own little backyard. With land and construction cost in SF so expensive now, it’s rare to see such large terraces in downtown developments these days… I say these units are a keeper.

  82. Posted by Infinity Treetop Buyer

    I was quoted these prices in August and recently inquired again. These prices are still holding.
    Building C (Main Treetop)
    4E -$960K
    6E – $1.12M
    8B – $1.53M

  83. Posted by Anonymous

    Infinity Treetop Buyer, any prices on the towers?
    Thanks

  84. Posted by tony

    Any updates on recent prices and what % is sold ??

  85. Posted by Random

    I don’t know the exact unit names but here are some quotes I got between the end of February and mid-March for Corner Units only.
    North Corner:
    4: 1,110,000
    5: Sold
    6: 1,130,000
    7: 1,140,000
    8: Sold
    9: Sold
    10: Sold
    South Corner:
    4: 985,000
    5: Sold
    6: Sold
    7: Sold
    8: Sold
    10: 1,060,000
    18: 1,250,000
    21: 1,250,000
    32: 1,390,000 Price Increase in Week 1 of March: 1,525,000 SOLD
    33: 1,535,000
    37: 1,900,000
    East Corner (Facing Courtyard):
    3: Sold
    4: Sold
    5: 1,240,000
    6: 1,250,000
    7: Sold
    8: 1,280,000 Lower Ceilings than 5,6,7, etc. plans
    9: 1,050,000
    10: 1,090,000
    11: Sold
    12: 1,190,000
    13: Sold
    14: 1,210,000
    15: Sold
    16: Sold
    17: Sold
    18: Sold
    19: Sold
    20: 1,280,000 Unit Smaller than Other Floors
    21: Sold
    22: Sold
    23: 1,450,000
    24: 1,530,000
    25: Sold
    26: Sold
    27: 1,680,000
    West Corner (Folsom/Main):
    Everything Sold except for:
    11th 1,220,000
    12: 1,250,000
    14: 1,260,000
    24th: 2,175,000
    *11: 1,220,000
    *12: 1,250,000
    *13: Sold
    *14: 1,260,000
    *15: Sold
    * May have been confused with price quotes for North Corner

  86. Posted by Random

    I think a couple of units, especially on the Folsom/Main corners have already sold since I last updated the list (03.12.07). And there was a price increase last Monday, 03.26.07, 1% on a few one bedrooms and 2% on a few 2 bedrooms.

  87. Posted by Joey

    Random, do you have pricing for the middle 2 bedroom units in the tower? Or any pricing on the midrises? Thanks.

  88. Posted by anonymous

    Does anyone know how many one bedroom units or studios are still available at the Infinity?

  89. Posted by anonymous

    There’s a really neat floorplan for a 1,000 square foot one bedroom on floor 3 in the tower. It’s the only one of it’s kind. I imagine it’s already sold.

  90. Posted by Recent Infinity Buyer

    We recently reserved a 2br 1310 sq ft unit in the B(tower bldg) – a south corner (F) unit. I’m curious if there are other recent purchasers and the price paid. We’re in th $1.075 range. There doesn’t seem to be much inventory left. I’m curious is prices will start to rise a bit.

  91. Posted by ventlessdryerfan

    Recent Infinity Buyer,
    Congrats on your purchase! That’s so exciting. Do you have any idea of your move-in date?

  92. Posted by anon

    I thought Infinity had dryers that vented to the outside? Curious about your “handle”. (Ventless dryer fan).

  93. Posted by ventlessdryerfan

    My handle was chosen in response to all the negative comments on this site about ventless dryers. I have no idea whether the Infinity has ventless dryers or not.

  94. Posted by anon

    I believe Infinity has traditional dryers that vent to the outside, while the infamous One Rincon has not made any allowances for vented dryers. Don’t ventless dryers still exhaust air into the unit, not from the part where the clothes are bumbling around, but from the rear heating and condensation units that exhaust moisture into the living space?

  95. Posted by lee

    I’m pretty sure the Infinity has ventless dryers as well. They’re not horrible, they do what they advertise, which is dry clothes.

  96. Posted by curious123

    The Infinity says it is 75% sold out. And most of the high floors are gone. Does anyone know if “sold out” means really sold out, or could some of those folks back up now that the mortgage market has become more difficult. Just wondering if I’ve missed my chance at one of the high floor, northeast facing units.

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