1532 Church Street
As we first reported when the tenant occupied single-family home at 1532 Church Street hit the market two months ago:

The list price and lack of interior photos for 1532 Church Street make a little more sense considering possession is subject to tenant rights and it’s currently rented for $1,154 per month. But at $699,000, the single-family Noe home is sure to generate a fair amount of interest and most likely an eviction notice soon after its sale.

Having closed escrow with a reported contract price of $730,000 last month, the Noe home has returned to the market emptied of its carpet and tenants and listed for $895,000.
Based on the quick turn, we’re guessing cash was likely the carrot but the threat of an eviction might still have been a stick.
∙ Listing: 1532 Church Street (2/1) 1,114 sqft – $895,000 [MLS]
Sure To Generate Interest (And Likely An Eviction Notice) [SocketSite]
Landlord or Owner Move In Evictions [sftu.org]
Playing By With House Rules To Effect An Eviction [SocketSite]

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Comments from “Plugged-In” Readers

  1. Posted by Drew

    I’m all for property rights, but this is just sleazy.

  2. Posted by Adam

    I don’t know about sleazy, but it certainly underscores that cash is king.

  3. Posted by ryan

    First, you cannot evict a tenant without cause in a pre 1980’s built building.
    Second, sleazy? Since they could not evict, don’t you think the tenant was justly compensated? Since you most likely don’t know, how can you jump to such conclusions, unless you are just plainly pushing tenant rights.

  4. Posted by Rillion

    Yeah I expect the tenant pocketed a nice chunk of money. There looks to be room for a profit here as long as it doesn’t linger on the market very long and force a reduction in price.

  5. Posted by joerealtor

    SFR are not subject to rent increase limitations of rent control per Costa Hawkins. Unless the tenant has been there a very long time. Prior to Costa Hawkins which I believe is approximately summer of 1996. 60 days notice for rent increase of more than 10%. So give notice rent will be $6000 per month and I am sure the tenant found another home.

  6. Posted by A.T.

    I don’t understand why the previous seller didn’t boot the tenant.

  7. Posted by anon$random

    guess the previous seller wasn’t “sleazy”
    personally, i think it’s sleazy for tenant’s to extort money from owner’s of buildings because they know they can under rent control.
    what this situation really shows, however, is one of the many ways smart people can make a lot of money if they know how to work the rent control system…which is also one of the many reasons we should get rid of it.

  8. Posted by Modernqueen

    Good price for a nice house on the J line.

  9. Posted by WIllow

    I am interested in whether the Noe Valley experts think the new sellers are going to get $895,000 for a 2/1 in need of upgrades on Church at Duncan? According to Zillow the lot size is 2000 SF.

  10. Posted by ryan

    Increasing the rent to $6000/month could be considered an “unlawful eviction”.

  11. Posted by A.T.

    ryan, I don’t think so. State law gives owners of SFRs and condos the absolute right to raise the rent once the lease term ends. That trumps any local ordinance. You can’t violate a local ordinance by exercising a state law right. If there has been a single case of a tenant successfully defeating a rent increase in these circumstances, I’d like to see it because I don’t believe it has ever happened.

  12. Posted by SF Dede

    @ WIllow:
    Yes, I think they will get their asking price if not more. I expect it will be under contract in 2 weeks.

  13. Posted by Brahma (incensed renter)

    ryan, why do you think the tenant couldn’t be evicted? An Ellis Act eviction could have been done and then, like A.T. says, the previous seller could have reaped the additional $165K and also avoided providing any cash inducements for the tenant to move.
    ‘course that woulnd’t work if the new buyer is looking for an “income property”.

  14. Posted by [anon.ed]

    The tenant claimed protected status and that takes a year. Ellis still takes 120 days even for non-senior and/or disabled. Looks like some sort of buyout from here.

  15. Posted by EBGuy

    Well, the flipper is definitely not afraid of hard cases. In another one of his buildings, he filed an unlawful detainer suit against a group of tenants that had an oral rental agreement, ‘on or about 1962.’ The suit alleged unpaid rent and also that the tenants no longer occupied the unit but that it remained in their possession. The lawsuit ended about six month later with a dismissal of entire action.

  16. Posted by EsEfGerard

    Protected tenant status is not applicable to SFRs. and it doesn’t look like they went the OMI route otherwise they would have to move in.
    I agree that some type of tenant buyout agreement must have been reached. something that would’ve been negotiated prior to the purchase of the property.
    As to why the previous owner didn’t boot the tenant (A.T.) – I donno, maybe they didn’t have the cash on hand to buyout the tenant.

  17. Posted by Modernqueen

    Yup, this will sell above asking. Just look around at Church St, all the people activity, new restaurants, shops, tons of people walking, biking, stroller moms, babies, new german cars.
    This is a hot neighborhood and getting hotter. And no, I’m not a real estate agent, just a homeowner.

  18. Posted by Willow

    “Yup, this will sell above asking. Just look around at Church St, all the people activity, new restaurants, shops, tons of people walking, biking, stroller moms, babies, new german cars.”
    Agree with everything except the restaurant scene in NV is pretty Ho-hum.
    Given the virtually non existent inventory at this price point I guess this SFH will definitely be in demand. It’s going to interesting…

  19. Posted by shza

    I seriously doubt this goes for above asking. $895k for a tiny 2/1 on a tiny lot that needs work and is right on the J line?
    Certainly not the best use of $895k in the city.
    I’ll say $799k.

  20. Posted by tipster

    Costa Hawkins only applied to new tenancies. Existing tenants were grandfathered in.
    If the tenant was there before 1996, rent control still applies to any property in SF built before 1979. You cannot raise the rent to whatever you want.
    Second, Costa Hawkins does not override eviction controls. Raise the rent to an above market price, and the tenant can sue for a “constructive eviction.”
    In all likelihood, the tenant was made an offer he couldn’t refuse.

  21. Posted by shza

    Why anyone would think babies and stroller moms would be a draw for or relevant to (other than as a negative) people in the market for a tiny 2/1 is also beyond me. This is not a “family home”; it seems the only market for this is dinks (and really I don’t know why you’d want to live in Noe at all if you were young and single — agree with Willow on the restaurant scene — but maybe that’s just me).

  22. Posted by shza

    ^^ meant childless, not single (though that too)

  23. Posted by ray stein

    Property owners are selling, not renting. and 1 of 12 properties sit empty, according to census data, in SF. Rent control encourages discrimination – against the handicapped, against the elderly, against anyone who might have even more rights and protections than the average renter. Who benefits? Those who have rent controlled apts, not those looking who can’t get a place or pay exhorbitant rents because of rent control. Who was rent control for? I remember it was for the working class, those who cleaned Sf hotel rooms, janitors, etc, those who otherwise would have to commute to service “us”. They are a small fraction of those in rent controlled apts. More likely it is college educated, and many with high paying jobs — both groups with lots of options. Wow, they might have to move to Oakland or someplace else with lower rents (and maybe even to where they commute to from their rent controlled sf apt, what a sin.

  24. Posted by A.T.

    tipster, good point that the tenant may have been pre-1996. But I do not buy the “constructive eviction” argument at all. State law gives you the absolute right to raise the rent on an SFR. That can’t be taken away by a local ordinance that is interpreted to mean “you can’t really raise the rent very much” because state laws supersede local laws.
    It’s a clever lawyerly argument, but it appears clearly wrong to me, which is why I posited that it had never actually succeeded.

  25. Posted by shza

    But isn’t constructive eviction a state common-law doctrine?
    I am a mere patent litigator; I don’t know these things.

  26. Posted by James

    Wow, whoever is flipping that building knows what they are doing or has cojones.
    I was involved (through no fault of my own except trusting a sleazy real estate agent) in flip similar to this. Long story short, the eviction wasn’t done properly and the tenant walked away with 300K after the SFTU got involved.
    I would not touch a building with renters in it in SF…

  27. Posted by Willow

    “Wow, whoever is flipping that building knows what they are doing or has cojones.
    I was involved (through no fault of my own except trusting a sleazy real estate agent) in flip similar to this. Long story short, the eviction wasn’t done properly and the tenant walked away with 300K after the SFTU got involved.
    I would not touch a building with renters in it in SF…”
    Very true. It’s not for the faint hearted. You need to be prepared for the process to take time and have lots of funds in reserve. I was stuck with difficult tenants for a property in Oakland who decided that paying rent was not in their interests and clearly wanted a big payout to go away. I got cold feet and walked, losing almost half of my 3% good faith deposit in addition to attorney fees. Lesson learned.

  28. Posted by Modernqueen

    Well, maybe some of you have not been to the Outer Church area, full of restaurants and cafe’s, always packed. I’m not referring to the restaurants on 24th.
    On Church, as an example you’ll find Eric’s chinese, Toast, Incanto, Pomelo, 2 sushi places, and La Ciccia at the end of Church on 30th. Great places, and a bustling part of Noe.
    As for the house, this has great potential for a young, well-to-do family; lower level to remodel, and one could add a second floor addition.
    Noe does have tons of “young and single” as well as families, retired couples, all kinds of people who absolutely LOVE the neighborhood. Ever seen how packed the Saturday farmers market is on 24th St?
    A lot of full house remodeling going on as well.
    Part of a thriving, changing neighborhood. All good.

  29. Posted by shza

    ^^^
    Every one of those sucks except Incanto.
    MQ, you obviously can’t be unbiased about Noe. Look at this place — it is an ugly, working-class shack. “Potential for a young, well-to-do family” indeed.

  30. Posted by DanRH

    If the downstairs room(s) are not included in the sq ft (seems like they are not but not sure), then I think this goes for over asking for sure. Maybe $1M.

  31. Posted by A.T.

    Modernqueen, from your restaurant taste, I’m betting you’re either much older or much younger than I am (i.e. under 30 or over 60)! Incanto is pretty good but the others you name are all very mediocre (although I’ve never been to the sushi places you don’t name).
    I agree with you that Noe is quite nice. But this is a shack – perhaps teardown/complete rebuild value in Noe is still very high.

  32. Posted by EBGuy

    I did get a kick out of a WSJ op-ed this past weekend. It referred to SF as a “bedroom community” as evidenced by the traffic leaving the City in the morning. I’m assuming this is the part of the trend that is helping buoy up Noe & Glen Park.

  33. Posted by Brahma (incensed renter)

    Everything I’ve read indicates that the premium for a non-tenant occupied home in S.F. is 20%. The seller here is asking for almost a 23% premium over what they paid – close enough.
    Nice work for having your money tied up for two or three months.
    Btw, I agree with shza that this place is a shack and only in S.F. would this place be considered suitable rental property, much less be considered a potential home for “a young, well-to-do family”.

  34. Posted by [anon.ed]

    La Ciccia sucks? Come on.

  35. Posted by ryan

    @Brahma & A.T. Sorry you are right about ellis and omi but… this encumbers the property. Generally it’s not done on SFD, rather the rent is increased to an uncomfortable amount (but not excessive) and such but all of these methods can take months. For such a quick action, I would guess the tenant had to be on board one way or another.

  36. Posted by NoeNeighbor

    La Ciccia is pretty good; and you are also easy walking to distance to some things on Mission (Blue Plate for example). Not a gourmet paradise, but plenty of good, interesting restaurants.
    $895K still strikes me as high for something that needs work and would cost a lot to expand.

  37. Posted by radar

    The house is nothing special as is but I have the same style home and took out the wall between the living room and kitchen/dining area and made one big space which is great for entertaining and living. Redid the kitchen and bath, added a room down to the garden and expanded with a second bath so fine for a small family or single.
    Re: Restuarants,… I have tried La Ciccia and Incanto twice to make sure I wasn’t hitting the restuarants on a bad night but I don’t get the fascination with either one of them. Totally mediocre for me. Tried one Sushi place as well but never went back.
    I do get take out at Erics though !

  38. Posted by Modernqueen

    Blue Plate is good too; solid comfort food, good wine list. La Ciccia has received some top ratings from Zagat.
    Incanto has an amazing serious wine cave and bar, and great food. I’ve been to one of their wine tasting dinners in the back and it was great. I’d love to understand how ones age indicates restaurant preference. Sounds pretty judgmental and rather narrow thinking to me.
    Toast is pretty good, always hard to get a table on Saturday am. Mission and 29th area is becoming a little gourmet ghetto, sort of. Good local mex places, Thai,Asian.

  39. Posted by EsEfGerard

    I think you guys are being a bit harsh in describing this this place as a “shack”. That place on Anderson in Bernal is what I consider a shack.
    This place may need a lot of work but it could be (although photos of the kitchen are conspicuously missing) inhabitable as is.
    I think it would behoove this guy to renovate this place and then sell it. It probably cost 50k to get the tenant out and even at 895k with RE fees his profit is shrinking fast.
    Eric’s is the worst Chinese food I ever had.

  40. Posted by Modernqueen

    And Eric’s is some of the BEST Chinese food I have ever had. It is busy most nites and packed on Friday and Saturday nites.

  41. Posted by shza

    With a name like Eric’s one would only expect the best and most authentic Chinese food.
    And the featured 1,100 square foot 2/1 manor is fit only for the most well-to-do families (and their cadre of servants).
    You’re just being needlessly provocative here.

  42. Posted by sparky-b

    I ate at Eric’s once and it was good. Some spicy pork dish. But Toast has the worst service ever, and the food is not any good. Plus Hungry Joe’s was so much better.

  43. Posted by EsEfGerard

    Try San Tung on Irving st and then get back to me.
    fyi- there’s no sweetnsour pork on the menu.

  44. Posted by Modernqueen

    Look boys and girls:
    I’m not a chef, I’m not a food critic. I eat out a lot, mostly Noe, Mission, Castro, Valencia.
    Always had great food at Eric’s, never had bad service at Toast. Doesn’t mean there are exceptions. All I know is that they are always busy and the food is delicious.
    Relax. Try it if you want. Stop being so damn provocative.

  45. Posted by sparky-b

    EsEfGerard,
    “24.SWEET & SOUR PORK”
    Why say a place does not have something on the menu that is in fact on the menu. odd.

  46. Posted by Denise

    A shack?
    You people are disgusting.

  47. Posted by inmycountry

    This property may offer some interesting options. The zoning is RH-2 (two units) and with fairly tall structures on each side (google map) going vertical without a lot of opposition may be possible. A major expansion or tear down might work here. The drawback, as others mentioned, is the lot size…only 2000 sq.ft.

  48. Posted by curmudgeon

    My friends and I call Eric’s “white people’s chinese food”. For what it is, it is great. But it is not authentic. But I still get take out from there….

  49. Posted by modernedwardian

    so i live in this neighborhood and renovated a duplex in 2009-10.
    with a smart addition – utilizing the ground floor and going up – this place is worth asking if not more.
    a younger family might live as is nicely for 1-2 years while seeing if their careers pan out, figuring out needs, and acquiring taste – without not lose a dime. and they’d be in the alvarado school catchment which is a draw.
    as for the restaurants, i find myself defending modernqueen (imagine). incanto and la ciccia may not be chowhound or twitter favorites but print media still recognize them as among the best in sf at what they do. toast is a diner with diner worthy food. personally i prefer alice’s or hot chilis to erics, for the salt content alone. yes they are “white chinese food”, but little in the us isn’t at this point. we certainly could use better choices out here but relative to most walking sf w/in a mile you’d be pressed to find more choices at reasonable price to quality ratios.
    and with the j church i can be at zuni, or frances, or delfina, or …. with very little effort.
    fyi @shza. women with strollers decide where men with incomes live and what doctors they see, an often how they dress and furnish homes and where the family vacations. their opinions matter a lot, epecially in a down economy. as for why young people live in noe, i’ll ask my tenants, in their 20’s and paying north of $4000 for their flat the next time we do dinner. i suspect it’s because they like the neighborhood vibe, the ease of restaurants, shopping, and services, the proximity to dolores park/glenpark canyon/bernal/the mission and the buses to high tech jobs in silicon valley.

  50. Posted by shza

    fyi @shza. women with strollers decide where men with incomes live and what doctors they see, an often how they dress and furnish homes and where the family vacations. their opinions matter a lot, epecially in a down economy.
    I have no idea why you’re directing that at me. My comment simply accepted that there are “women with strollers” in Noe — that is the main thing it’s famous for — and questioned why young people without strollers would view them as a draw/anything other than a negative. When I was in my 20s fresh out of school and making $150k, my friends and I all viewed Noe as a no-man’s land (women with stroller) and lived in Dolores Heights/Mission-west-of-Valencia. Much better walking options, restaurants, BART, bars, women, young people, etc.
    Maybe things have changed drastically in 7 years but I doubt it. The location of good restaurants and nightlife certainly hasn’t — that’s all still in the mission.
    And the notion that a tiny, run-down 2/1 directly on the j-line (hint: not quiet when you have kids who nap) would be a good option for a *1-2 year hold* for a family (or for anyone) is unbelievable. We’re not in 2006 anymore (that goes for “next time we do dinner” too).
    Ugh.

  51. Posted by Modernqueen

    Well, we all know what shza thinks of Noe Valley: pretty rigid and narrow definition of that land way out there.
    Lots of us love it. Some just like it. Prices are high, it’s walkable, safe, reasonably clean, lots of good places to eat.
    I also see plenty of dads with strollers too.
    What’s not to like?

  52. Posted by NoeValleyJim

    A young woman I work with was trying to decide on renting a place at 29th and Sanchez or 23rd and Valencia. We opened up the SF Crime maps and checked to see how many crimes happened within 200 ft of each place over the last month. The place in The Mission had 10X as many crimes. In spite of that, I recommended she live in The Mission while she was young and single.
    So even though it was a bit more expensive and smaller, she picked the place in Noe.

  53. Posted by sparky-b

    She made a bad choice. You should have pushed harder Jim. 23rd and Valencia is great.

  54. Posted by don't get it

    Why is everyone talking about mediocre restaurants?
    People squeezing their finances to be in near-$1M shacks aren’t going to be eating out–unless they take their Ramen bowls to the park.

  55. Posted by Dan

    The 200 ft around 23rd and Valencia stretches down towards Mission Street, encompassing people going and coming from 24th and Mission BART, as well as those going to Beretta and other popular restaraunts. So it must have 50 times the foot traffic of 29th and Sanchez. If it only has 10 times the crime, one’s odds might be better at 23rd and Valencia.
    If one is coming home late at night on transit, the walk from the J Church to 29th and Sanchez might feel a little safer than the walk from 24th and Mission BART, but overall I would say that you won’t live longer at 29th and Sanchez (vs 23rd and Valencia), it will just seem longer.

  56. Posted by middleclassjoe

    Goodness you people are judgmental, projecting your 20-something personas on everyone else. Can’t you abide by the fact that people have different preferences? Some like urban action, some like cozy residential, some like sketchy edge areas. When I moved here as a 20-something in the early 90’s lots of people said I should rent “where the action is”, primarily the Mission, the Haight, and yes, even Noe valley. But I chose to rent in the then-unknown enclave of Glen Park. Why? It had the right combination of price, safety, relative quiet, access to nature (I could see hawks flying over Glen Canyon from my window), access to transit, and decent-enough neighborhood retail. All the “action” of the city was within close reach, and I took advantage of it, but that doesn’t mean I wanted to live in the middle of it.
    So I could totally see why someone – even a young person!! – would choose to live here, close to everything but still in a relatively calm pocket of the city. It’s not like they are choosing Daly City or Pacifica (which have their own attraction, I’m sure).

  57. Posted by Modernqueen

    for the record: Eric’s is highly rated, with Michelin recommendations for 4 years now, Zagat rated highly, and tons of plus reviews on Yelp, Best of the Bay, etc.
    Calling it “white peoples chinese food” is just stupid.
    When I’m there with friends or family, normally about 1/3 of the place is packed with Asians.

  58. Posted by curmudgeon

    Modernqueen…I said I like Erics…I think it’s yummy. But it is white people’s chinese food. Not only for the food itself, but also for the ambiance. Ever had a tortilla to wrap mu shu pork anywhere else? 1/3 Asian? Sorry, but I’ve never seen that, and it doesn’t make much demographic sense….Noe Valley is is 76% white according to the Census. But I’ll do a count next time I go in to pick up take out… :-)

  59. Posted by James

    Sorry MQ, but if “Eric’s is some of the BEST Chinese food I have ever had” then you haven’t had much real Chinese food.

  60. Posted by Modernqueen

    ok

  61. Posted by sfrenegade

    “incanto and la ciccia may not be chowhound or twitter favorites”
    Actually, I’m pretty certain Incanto is a Chowhound favorite. La Ciccia, not sure.
    “and with the j church i can be at zuni”
    Now if you want to talk about overrated (although also a Chowhound favorite)…
    That said, Noe’s not really the neighborhood that comes to mind for good restaurants. The 24th St NIMBY ordinance doesn’t help either.
    Also, I’m pretty sure Eric’s wasn’t on any of the 2009-2012 Michelin Bib Gourmand lists, and yes, it’s best described as Americanized Chinese food. Nothing wrong with that (sometimes certain Americanized Chinese food is good, and sometimes there’s an authentic Chinese dish I just don’t like), but it is what it is.

  62. Posted by steve

    Kids, kids! Stop with the squabbling or there will be no desert.

  63. Posted by Modernqueen

    Desert?………..or dessert?
    So, sfren: tell me. You mean there’s really a neighborhood that “comes to mind” for good restaurants?
    Who knew?

  64. Posted by [anon.ed]

    “The 24th St NIMBY ordinance doesn’t help either”
    No. Bevan Dufty sponsored an ordinance that lifted that a year and a half ago. It passed and things have changed quite a bit already.
    http://noevalleysf.blogspot.com/2010/01/update-planning-commission-allows-more.html

  65. Posted by Modernqueen

    Just got back from a nice dinner at Pomelo, on Church near 30th.
    Place was packed; good food, good wine list. Another plus for the outer Church neighborhood.

  66. Posted by Bernie Hill

    @Modernqueen, yes, there are neighborhoods that come to mind for good food. The Mission, for one.
    [And no, I don’t live there (any more – that was my 20s), now I either slum it with the Bernal food scene, or schlep down the hill for something great.

  67. Posted by NoeValleyJim

    I like the neighborhood and appreciate the fact that there is a huge diversity of food choices within a few blocks: Chinese, Thai, Cambodian, Mexican, Nicaraguan, Italian, Japanese, California Cuisine, Indian, Southern style and yes, a few diners.
    Yelp lists 33 restaurants within 4 blocks of this place and that is a pretty nice selection.
    But if you compare it to some placelike 24th and Mission, where there are 138 restaurants within 4 blocks, many of them destination places, there is really no comparison.
    But The Mission is very close, either a short J or bicycle ride or a relatively short walk and you can have all of what it has to offer without having to live in the middle of the noise, the crime and the loud drunks at all hours of the day and night.

  68. Posted by nnona

    “When I moved here as a 20-something in the early 90’s lots of people said I should rent “where the action is”, primarily the Mission, the Haight, and yes, even Noe valley. But I chose to rent in the then-unknown enclave of Glen Park.”
    I find it extremely hard to believe that “lots of people” would have advised you to rent in the Mission or Noe for “the action” in those days.
    In the early 90s, the only “action” for a middle class 20-something in the Mission would have been scoring some heroin or a skanky hooker. Of course that kind of “action” would have appealed to only a tiny sliver of said demographic. The overwhelming majority of middle class 20-somethings were deathly afraid to even go get a burrito after dark (and for some even in daylight) in the Mission in those days.
    In Noe Valley a generation ago, the “action” for a middle class 20-something was pretty much limited to the Rat and Raven. And if my memory serves me right, I’m not even sure that 20-somethings had even started patronizing the place en masse yet in the early 90s.
    The rest of 24th St. and NV was a veritable ghost town at night, with the exception of a few Irish places that catered to an entirely different demographic.
    The Haight, though, did have a lot of “action” back then for young people. Cheap happy hours and food, some live music, a bustling open-air market for buds and doses, hell there was even a bowling alley that was fun when one was drunk/high/tripping.
    Besides the Haight, the “action” for 20-somethings was in places like the Triangle, North Beach, Lower Haight, and the Castro (depending on one’s sexual preferences of course).
    Glen Park was not “unknown” in those days, it had a lot of downtown commuter residents due to cheap rents/home prices plus BART. Though it is true that it has gentrified a lot since then.

  69. Posted by sparky-b

    nnona,
    Maybe not the early 90’s but by the MID-90’s the mission was a destination, and the only marginal place in Noe was still the Rat and Raven.

  70. Posted by REpornaddict

    Every one of those sucks except Incanto
    Anyone who thinks La Ciccia sucks knows very little, or nothing about food, imho..

  71. Posted by Modernqueen

    Thoughts:
    I’m wondering what the importance of “comparing” neighborhoods to other neighborhoods, with regards to selection and type of restaurants. What’s the point?
    Isn’t it more important to just have so many great choices in SF?
    More thoughts: When someone (an adult) chooses to use the word “sucks” to describe a restaurant, then their opinion is worth zero.

  72. Posted by guest

    MQ so true. Seems most have forgotten the genesis of “sucks” and just how vulgar that is

  73. Posted by sfrenegade

    So, sfren: tell me. You mean there’s really a neighborhood that “comes to mind” for good restaurants?
    Sure thing, noearch, the Mission comes to mind for one thing.
    Maybe you should stick to telling us to get permits…

  74. Posted by Modernqueen

    @guest: exactly. It’s the way 12 year olds talk to each other all the time. vulgar and immature.

  75. Posted by 47yo hipster

    Boy this sure is an entertaining thread. Sure everyone has their own opinion, but I think the knocks against noe are valid.
    I lived in noe from 94-2003, and really started to hate the place when the dot com/RE boom hit in the late 90’s. It went from a somewhat diverse, yet real, middle class hood to a precious and annoying soccer mom-I-have-arrived destination. In the meantime the mission kept its diversity, arts/culinary scene, and got safer as well. (for the record, the mission was a lot of fun in the early 90’s too, and plenty went there for restaurants, cafes, etc.)
    Best thing about noe for me: selling my condo to some anxious yuppies for a premium several years ago. The multi bidding and getting the “we love your place” personal letters was a lot of fun! Used the proceeds to buy a home I really like in the mission, and leverage into several rental units as well. Now I’m living off the income stream generated by my mission based rental projects, walking to new lunch places every day, and playing around on the iPad in the sunny back yard. Glad that noe condo went from purchase price (tic) $160k to (yuppy destination condo) for $705k. Thanks soccer mom!
    As for the restaurants in noe, indeed they mostly do suck now. Savor in the mid 90’s was kinda cool. Now? Total crap. Toast? Don’t even getting me started. By stroke of bad luck I recently suffered at Henry’s Hunan. Total crap. Really. But i suppose Alice’s is ok for white peoples Chinese (plus the ladies there are really nice- even remembered me from the good old days :)

  76. Posted by Bernie Hill

    Wait – did I miss something? Modernqueen = noearch? I love this website!

  77. Posted by Modernqueen

    Oh Dear hipster: I agree, this thread is entertaining. Usually is.
    So, let me get this right: You went from hating Noe, til you sold your tic for a nice profit to someone willing to pay the price. What’s the problem? Everyone got what they wanted.
    And so you bought a house in the Mission, and then got some rental units. Good. But, let’s not forget that YOU also helped gentrify the Mission, just as the “annoying” soccer moms and dad’s have done to Noe. Nothing really wrong with that, except when you trash others for doing what you did with your good fortune.
    Gentrifying neighborhoods are good for the city, all areas, all ‘hoods. It’s called change. It’s a good thing. It’s an essential part of our economic system.
    As for restaurants, well, you do realize all of the roach kitchens that exist in the Mission, don’t you? But, then again, all of us well to do people are loving the new Valencia St, and packing the trendy new restaurants that can be pricey.
    What I really hate is how hard it is any more over there to find a parking spot for my BMW.

  78. Posted by REpornaddict

    The Mission has some god awful restaurnats to,don’t forget.
    Just within one coin toss on 24th/Mission you have McDonalds and the Chinese Food/Donuts place.
    Far worse than anything Noe has to offer, hands down..!!!
    Agee Toast is bad (or at best bland) though!

  79. Posted by The Milkshake of Despair

    “Wait – did I miss something? Modernqueen = noearch?”
    Yup. Though my proprietary linguogrammatik text analyzer and soft serve yogurt machine didn’t ring the “exact match” bell, it did blurp out a kiwi / vanilla bean swirl which is as good for confirmation in my book (and delicious to boot)
    Both noearch and Modernqueen:
    – are major Noe boosters
    – live in Noe
    – critique architectural design, favoring the modern
    – espouse that buyers will pay top dollar for good design even though other factors indicate lower value.
    – instantly respond to the accusation of being uptight with something like “You’re the one who’s uptight!”
    – mock posters who use slang as being immature
    – have a good command of English grammar
    – drive a Beemer even to places within easy walking distance.
    – enjoy watching reruns of Gilligan’s Island
    OK, I just made up the last one. But this kiwi/vanilla swirl cone sure is tasty.

  80. Posted by bettyliscious

    What y’all talkin about?
    Is noearch really modernqueen?
    Is flug really anon.ed? Will sparky-b ever get his contractor’s licence?
    Why does sfrenegade hate architects? Will noevalleyjim ever have lunch with noearch?
    When will the milkshakeofdespair ever shut up?
    Stay tuned at 4 for “As the real estate world turns”.

  81. Posted by sparky-b

    Hold the phone I have my license.

  82. Posted by bettyliscious

    Laughed so hard I just spilled my rum and coke with sparks answer.

  83. Posted by Rillion

    Yeah but do you have your licence? And if you do, can you tell me what a licence is?
    ***
    This thread is great. I think the mission and the noe backers should fight it out in a cage match in dolares park.

  84. Posted by BernalDweller

    Or even Dolores Park, although the irony of “dolares” park is not lost on me. LOL.

  85. Posted by sfrenegade

    Why does sfrenegade hate architects?
    Since when do I hate architects? I like architects just fine, although some of the modernists like Saitowitz can go jump off a cliff. :)
    It’s more that I didn’t appreciate the attitude from noearch/modernqueen that the architect’s preferences should rule over the client’s preferences and that the only way to get good results is to have the architect managing the building process.
    First of all, the client is paying. Second of all, you don’t always want your architect to manage the building process, and even the link that noearch sent me that described hiring an architect explicitly stated that a client can hire an architect for any or all of the listed services at the client’s option — the client’s option, to repeat myself.
    Also, I once pointed out that noearch at first hated Dwell-style architecture, but now professes to love it. I asked why the change, and this offended noearch greatly. I think we also disagreed on the economic substance of property tax once, and he also took that personally, even though it was a reasonable topic of debate.
    - instantly respond to the accusation of being uptight with something like “You’re the one who’s uptight!”
    Ding ding ding. Yes, that was quite obvious.
    This thread is great. I think the mission and the noe backers should fight it out in a cage match in dolares park.
    There are plenty of problems with the Mission. However, it has some great restaurants these days.

  86. Posted by bettyliscious

    or we could have a cage match with shots at the Royal Cuckoo bar where Valencia runs into Mission.
    perfect name for a bar to settle this nonsense.

  87. Posted by curmudgeon

    Is Noe v. Mission the new One Rincon v.Infinity?
    If so, I think it’s a much more interesting discussion. Mission rocks, y’all.

  88. Posted by James

    “Mission rocks, y’all.”
    Yep. Although it has its issues (kind of grimy in places and parking) it has hands-down the best restaurants scene in the city.
    Nowhere else is even close.

  89. Posted by bettyliscious

    All I can say is sfren: honey, y’all have no sense of humor whatsoever.
    “ding, ding, ding”..what? are we on some kinda damn game show or what?

  90. Posted by 47yo hipster

    Mod queen- I never complained about the gentrification in noe. Only in the type of people who tended to do it: mostly precious/annoying soccer moms and robot/generic yuppie types. I’m all for improving the mission, but at least there is a diversity of people here, and the gentrifiers are the usually less annoying hipster/tech workers (who happen to appreciate great coffee to boot!) I mean Martha bros? C’mon now.

  91. Posted by Legacy Dude

    I’m a Soma dweller, so no dog in this fight. But the ayes have it: for eating and drinking the Mission crushes Noe Valley, no contest.

  92. Posted by REpornaddict

    “the gentrifiers are the usually less annoying hipsters”
    wow. thats a matter of opinion!!! In fact, I consider most Mission hipsters to be more robotlike, generic and slavelike in their tastes and preferences than the Noe yuppie you berate!
    And If Noe soccer moms are precious, Mission hipsters are pretentious!!!
    Anyway, I thought it was Mission vs Marina? That made more sense,let the two most annoying neighbourhoods slug it out betweem them!!!

  93. Posted by tc_sf

    If Incanto exemplifies the Noe scene I’d think that Mission Chinese Food exemplifies the Mission scene. Grimy area, hipsters, but the “book” is much better then you’d think from seeing its “cover”.

  94. Posted by 47yo hipster

    RE porn- you missed my main point: that the mission has a diversity of people. Noe much less so. That’s why I like it (hipster vs yuppie is matter of opinion.)

  95. Posted by REpornaddict

    47yo hipster – yup. Mission is more diverse.No arguments there.
    But you also did state pretty much as fact that hipsters are less annoying than the Noe types, which I would totally disagree with, but can see that it’s a matter of opinion. But with your username (which I hope is ironic btw!) can see you’d be biased on this!!

  96. Posted by Modernqueen

    Well,we all know that San Franciscans are among THE most opinionated, annoying people around. And we got plenty of them right here.
    I really never thought this would turn into a Mission vs. Noe pissing contest. Doesn’t have to be that way. They are both unique and different hoods. Both have some awesome restaurants and both have some real rat-holes.
    But seriously, hands down we all know that “hipsters” are THE most annoying, self-entitled lemmings to enter SF since the yuppies. Have you seen the lines at Tartine and Bi-rite ice-cream lately? and 3/4 of them are staring blankly into their smart phones updating their damn status or surfing for porn.
    If the discussion is about diversity, that can be another long thread, I’m sure. One could go round and round ’bout that. I was on Mission yesterday to meet a friend for a burrito. The whole damn street was mostly Hispanic, and I’m caucasian. So what? It’s a largely hispanic neighborhood and that’s fine. What the obsession with “diversity”?. The whole city is “diverse”.
    Walking on 24th today in Noe headed to the post office, the street was full of asians, hispanic moms and nannys, white guys, all kinds of folks. Again? so what? diverse or not, Noe and Mission are great neighborhoods.
    Now, let’s talk about the Marina if ya wanna talk about not diverse. Again, so what? Some of you need to get out more, and back off with the diversity obsession. It’s annoying.
    btw: 47yohipster, you are too old to think of yourself as a hipster.

  97. Posted by curmudgeon

    ^Actually, hipster is a state of mind. And I’ve seen plenty of guys in their 40’s sporting braces and bowties and cute little hats recently. OK..so maybe that’s just an indication that the hipster “look” is already a cliche. NEXT!

  98. Posted by 47yo hipster

    Heaven forbid! My namesake is purely ironic. Wait, irony is a hipster trait. Dooh!

  99. Posted by Modernqueen

    No, irony is hardly a hipster trait. However, pretending to be ironic is.

  100. Posted by 47yo Hispanic

    Great comments. I’ll just add: I used to be in the Mission back when it was great (94-2003). Man those were the times. Great cutlure, great (and fairly priced) restaurants, wonderful hard-working people.
    But then I really started to hate it when all these alternative types started coming in left and right, making it a lot less diverse. Now all we seem to have are fancy coffee shops. Oh, can I try that $5.50 scoop of ice cream? Heck no, give me plain chocolate.
    What the heck is a mixologist? Just give me a damn drink, bartender.
    Best thing about Noe for me: selling my condo to some 43yo alternative goatee wearing ‘hipster’ who wanted some ‘diversity’. Getting the ‘I really want to know your culture’ bs letters was terrific. He got his hipster-pad (wtf?), I took my money, and bought 2 rentals out in Visitacion Valley. Now as he crows about diversity, I sit back and enjoy my good culture over here.
    As for restaurants in Mission? It all went to heck when I saw some place charging $10 for two donuts.

  101. Posted by 47yo Hispanic

    Best thing about MISSION for me… :)

  102. Posted by 47yo hipster

    ^ you’re a f*cking troll.

  103. Posted by Modernqueen

    So, maybe, just maybe 47yo hipster, you realize your earlier rant about selling in Noe just made you like more like a fool…
    than you really are.
    I think 47yo hispanic just put you in your place.
    Play nice hipster and stop being so mean.

  104. Posted by REPornaddict

    47yo Hispanic..great post! (other than the noe/mission mix up!)
    And, like all the best posts here, funny because it contained more than a hint of truth. If you hand out stereotypes on one hood but cant handle them thrown back at you about your own hood – without resorting to insults – serious sense of humor malfunction I think.
    Kudos.

  105. Posted by 47yo hipster

    No….what I wrote was A) true wrt where I brought and sold and B) my personal opinion on noe vs mission residents. 47 yo “fake-spanic” post was ridiculous and fiction- I.e. a troll.
    And mod queen, we all know you’re noearch in drag. And a sore loser as well. But go on defending yourself. Whatever.

  106. Posted by 47yo Hispanic

    @47yo hipster: ah, c’mon! was joking around…lighten up, Francis.
    point being: great that you cashed in and you are having a great time in your new hood. totally understand why you did move as Noe changed and you didn’t like it. completely understandable and to each his own. but no need to bash those coming in (or leaving) a hood, as chances are then other folks could bash you/me/etc. Just wait till 87yoIrishDude starts bashing about how great Visitacion Valley was in the 30’s before 47yo Hispanic showed up.
    Change in all these ‘hoods is part of what makes SF and all cities fun to be around.

  107. Posted by 47yo hipster

    Ok Ok, I admit, I was being a smug prick ;) it’s fun being willfully hypocritical sometimes, criticizing noe valley yuppies, while at the same time benefiting greatly from their existence. Me bad boy sometimes.
    For the record, I agree that many neighborhood changes make the city a lively place to live.
    Wasn’t Francis some Asian chick who was around here a few years ago investing in SF condos? I liked her.

  108. Posted by sparky-b

    47yoh,
    I left the Mission around the time you came in, so you didn’t gentrify it you just took another white dudes spot. Hope that will let you sleep better at night, as I am sure this thread has been haunting you.

  109. Posted by NoeValleyJim

    A friend of mine bought a big SFH in The Mission near 22nd and Harrison and has been living there for about 10 years. He has two kids, aged six and three and he and his wife have enough money now that they are moving to Noe. He is probably going to do better on the appreciation if he sells his old place than you even did 47 y.o. hipster.
    He is kind of bummed to be leaving but his wife is sick of having to chase the homeless and drunks out of her back yard. And then there is stuff like this:
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/28/BANB1LNL41.DTL
    He is actually buying a place across the street from me and doing an addition, so that they have enough space for the Au Pair. I am pretty jazzed to have more friends on the block.
    Now of course my wife has started bugging me about adding space to our place :)

  110. Posted by Rillion

    Okay, we all had a good chuckle over mission v. noe, now let’s all make up and start bashing the marina, that neighborhood really deserves the hate!

  111. Posted by 47yo hipster

    Sparks- thanks for the guilt free swap, but I think I’ll survive this ordeal (life is hard.)
    NVJ- Between noe and the mish I did just fine (no more workie-workie for me, remember?)
    Rillion- now that makes sense!
    Peace out

  112. Posted by RenterAgain

    Just catching up on this funny thread.
    I live on a block in Noe that has more of the old school Noe types––friendly longtimers who bought or inherited their houses way before the run up and renters in non-fancy apartments, some with kids/dogs, some without. I like that I can walk to all the great restaurants in the Mission (both trendy and not) and then come home and not hear gunshots or find human deposits on my doorstep. (Dog deposits are another story.) And yeah, Toast is greasy and gives me a stomachache, but La Boulange is fine for a Saturday breakfast if you don’t mind being surrounded by toddlers. I don’t have kids, but I don’t mind having them around.
    I’ve already lived in edgy neighborhoods, both when I was a poor grad student and later when I was part of the double income gentrifiers. I don’t feel the need to do it again now that I’m almost as old as 47 yo hipster. Agree with middleclassjoe that it’s ridiculous to think that everyone has the same needs and desires for a neighborhood.
    As for the house (back to the OT, imagine!), I could live there. I went to the open house––it’s plain, but hardly a “shack”. I’d rather start with the original kitchen/bath than deal with someone else’s crappy remodel. It’s big enough for a non-high-maintenance couple and the small plus room downstairs gives a bit of extra breathing room.

  113. Posted by SocketSite

    After two weeks on the market, the list price for 1532 Church Street has been reduced $6,000, now asking $889,000.

  114. Posted by sparky-b

    $875K

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