April 1, 2010
Le Grand Notice De Default For Le Petit Trianon (3800 Washington)
As we wrote about 3800 Washington in 2007:
Le Petit Trianon (3800 Washington) closed escrow last week. And while the contract price was not disclosed, according to a plugged-in tipster it was well over the reduced asking price of $19,500,000 (but ended up including the empty lot next door/behind as well).
Subsequent tax records suggest a total purchase price of $20,000,000 (damn our tipsters are good). And now as another plugged-in reader notes (with a bit of added color), a Notice of Default (NOD) has been filed on Le Petit Trianon with a reported loan balance of $9,178,178 on the 17,895 square foot home.
And sorry, no April fools.
∙ There’s Little That's Little About The Big Sale Of Le Petit Trianon [SocketSite]
∙ 651 Days On The Market And
Counting Sold? [SocketSite]
Little Lot Off The Top At The Top [SocketSite]
First Published: April 1, 2010 6:00 AM
Comments from "Plugged In" Readers
Proof positive that the recent 13.5M sale doesn't sell for 20M in 2007?
Posted by: anonn at March 31, 2010 4:59 PM
Minor had big plans for this house... Too bad.
It needs major, major work...
Posted by: sleepiguy at March 31, 2010 5:05 PM
why not??...this Trianon property requires $20 million of work just to become habitable plus it has no view and is across the street from a school.
Thus, if the purchase of Trianon was $20 million, just add another $20 million to it for updating to become habitable and the "real" purchase price was/is $40 million
the recent $13.5 million transaction requires no work to become habitable which argues that during 2005/2006 it would have likely sold close to or more than $20 million. I believe 2006 is around the time the Trianon sold for a "real" price of ~$40 million.
see, you need to consider the condition of the property when you consider the sale prices of these properties. The recent $13.5 million sale property requires NO work for it to become habitable.
I think there was something unusual about the $12 million 2849 Pacific property transaction. Even Zillow attached an asterisk on it because the $12 million did not with market characteristics.
Posted by: awakeandalert at March 31, 2010 5:21 PM
20M of work? And what of the lot?
Posted by: anonn at March 31, 2010 5:43 PM
No point in arguing over the hypothetical sale price of the 2342 Broadway. Especially not with someone who has 3 posts on the entire history of socketsite both with the sole intention of propagating an outlandish $20M peak price of a really nice house (e.g., not a mansion / estate) property like Le Petit Trianon. Probably the new owner.
Posted by: eddy at March 31, 2010 6:10 PM
Don't forget that two homes on Vallejo almost directly below 2342 sold for 12/12.4 in 07. Both were complete gut remodels and a bit larger than the Broadway home, but had pretty much the same jaw dropping views. It's hard to argue that block of Broadway was ever worth 40% more.
Posted by: sleepiguy at March 31, 2010 6:44 PM
I did not realize there was a connection between knowledge and the number of posts a person makes on socketsite, but no worries. It's a purportedly free country, so you are free to state your opinion which you do often.
My only point is that the market, including this niche market of zips 94118, 94115 and 94123, is not even close to its prior peak and will not reach that point for many many years and will likely encounter further headwinds/weakness in the Fall as the monetary stimulus unwinds and its unwinding negattively effects the capital markets.
have a nice day
Posted by: awakeandalert at April 1, 2010 6:28 AM
interesting article about the alleged owner. i especially like this:
"His career shows something of a Midas touch, although he just says, It's better to be lucky than smart."
Posted by: resp at April 1, 2010 6:58 AM
I read the piece. Says he is 38yo, hired Jeff Bezos in '89 when he worked for MER....WTF.
Reporter needs to check the facts a bit closer.
Ahh well, it's SF Gate. This does not happen on Socketsite.
Posted by: jon at April 1, 2010 7:51 AM
About the location, don't grand mansions prefer to live in neighborhoods along with other grand mansions?
Posted by: jon at April 1, 2010 7:54 AM
His 205 acre Virginia "Farm" went into foreclosure last month. Must be a tough quarter for Billionaire's!!!
Posted by: Reg at April 1, 2010 8:18 AM
Now this is a grand mansion.
Posted by: eddy at April 1, 2010 8:22 AM
Posted by: The Bank at April 1, 2010 8:33 AM
The sfgate article was written in 2003, meaning he could have been 24 in '89 when he hired Bezos - that is entirely feasible.
Posted by: The Drizzler at April 1, 2010 8:33 AM
take a look inside. you will see that it is not all that "grand"
Posted by: awakeandalert at April 1, 2010 8:34 AM
imagine the staff needed to operate a place like this...
personal assistants (2)
Posted by: Joshua at April 1, 2010 8:46 AM
awakeandalert - I think that eddy's point has nothing to do with the knowledge of a poster but rather the poster's motives. We see from time to time "single issue" posters who pop up defending a certain property or neighborhood and then disappear after the thread dies down, never to be heard from again.
If you're not such a poster, then welcome to the party and we look forward to hearing from you in the future.
Posted by: The Milkshake of Despair at April 1, 2010 9:23 AM
I disagree. The referenced comment was an attempt to discount my post for the simple reason that I have not nor will I ever post as often as eddy/sleepiguy.
No problem though - it is what it is and the overall audience here will come to their own conclusions
Have a cool day
Posted by: awakeandalert at April 1, 2010 10:02 AM
What's with the $20 million in repairs. I did the slide show and it looks A-Ok from that. Also shows a view.
For $20 mil worth of fixing, should look like the Bourne house.
What's your interest in this?
Posted by: jon at April 1, 2010 10:04 AM
I'm confused, HM owned the place back in 2003, but sold it to somebody else in 2007, right?
Posted by: ex SF-er at April 1, 2010 10:14 AM
the website from when it was for sale is still live.
Posted by: hugh at April 1, 2010 10:15 AM
presumably you're talking to me. I have zero interest in this thing - just fascination
this property is much larger than Bourne; no comp there
1.have you ever been inside this property?
2.do you have any experience renovating properties?
3.renovating in excess of $5 million?
4.knowledge of historic commodity prices?
if answer to #1 is no, then nough said.
if answer to #2 is no, then nough said.
if answer to #3 is no, then nough said.
if answer to #4 is no, then nough said.
it's all just simple math + first hand knowledge
anecdote, if you have been inside property and seen kitchen and just one bathroom, you would never pay $20 million for this property w/out the intent to invest another $20 million into it to make it livable.
hope this helps
Posted by: awakeandalert at April 1, 2010 10:38 AM
awakeandalert - if this is simple math, then could you just simply share it ?
Posted by: The Milkshake of Despair at April 1, 2010 11:25 AM
notice no pics of the kitchen or bathrooms or bedrooms - the important stuff
this property requires substantial cap ex
Posted by: awakeandalert at April 1, 2010 11:27 AM
I sat thru the slideshow...again. Ceilings appear fine, no apparent cracks or water damage. Marble seems all intact. All the glass, stained and clear seems to be there. Paint on the doors and trim is good. Place is nice and clean....like a $20 mil property should look.
There are no pics of the kitchen or bathrooms.
There is a nice view from the terrace.
Are we looking at the same property, 3800 Washington?
I guess that is a school across the street.
You're not a troll are you?
Posted by: jon at April 1, 2010 11:36 AM
I've been in this house, I was there a few years ago for a charity event. It's a very taste-specific home. The entry way comes across as very cold and open, more like a museum than a private residence. It would be best suited for someone with a large art collection. And yes, the living spaces such as bedrooms all need updating. I saw the kitchen in the basement but not the one on the main floor. Again, lots of updating needed.
Posted by: Lori at April 1, 2010 11:37 AM
@The Milkshake of Despair
minimum $15 million for General Contracting alone or in the neighborhood of $1000/square foot.
$15 million does not include electrical, landscaping, audio, interior design to name several line items.
yes, we are looking at the same property. it clearly doesn't appear as though you have ever been inside property.
Posted by: awakeandalert at April 1, 2010 11:50 AM
FWIW I've been inside the property for a function. I don't recall the bathroom situation precisely, but i do remember that there was a smallish modern kitchen on the first floor, and a full, very unrenovated kitchen on the basement level (clearly the historic kitchen of the mansion). I'm presuming there's at least one bathroom per floor.
I am NO expert on high end renovations, but I'm guessing at a minimum you would want to add a whole bunch of ensuite bathrooms for the BR's, and modernize the kitchen. That's clearly a lot of work, partiularly considering the existing historic fabric. But 15 million worth? Yow. Again, I profess no expertise on the matter.
Posted by: curmudgeon at April 1, 2010 12:19 PM
You say manison, I say mausoleum.
Posted by: Sunset Guy at April 1, 2010 12:20 PM
I'm confused, HM owned the place back in 2003, but sold it to somebody else in 2007, right?
No, he actually owned a place in Sea Cliff proper; his ex-wife now owns that place.
His 205 acre Virginia "Farm" went into foreclosure last month.
According to this, he avoided foreclosure on the farm.
I recommend this Gawker summary for those of you keeping track at home. Real estate (among other things), could be his undoing...
Posted by: EBGuy at April 1, 2010 12:23 PM
sorry, that $15 million quote is from a simultaneous thread on this property.
Posted by: curmudgeon at April 1, 2010 12:24 PM
FWIW, here's what Halsey had to say in his Portfolio magazine interview: He’s already planning a $15 million makeover of the San Francisco property, which he finds “kind of offensive and ugly.” The mansion, which sits on one of the biggest lots in the city (rumored to be second only to the one owned by novelist Danielle Steel), “needs a lot of work to go from this grandiose monstrosity to a real house,” Minor says.
Posted by: EBGuy at April 1, 2010 12:47 PM
fwiw, aaa's motives are/were in fact being questioned as it related to the Broadway sale.
Le Petit Trianon current market value is unknown and is hard to comp. I'd venture to guess $12-18M in its current form. And if this place were to received the relative budget / treatment to return this home to the grand mansion that it is deserving I would say that this is probably one of the 15 to 20 homes that might command $30M+ for a truly one of a kind situation. The reality is that there is just no need for a home like this and there are few people in the world; maybe 500-1000 with the means and interest. I drove by this home today and it is really awe inspiring. Maybe we have 2011's Decorator Showcase property here and we can all get inside it so we can make a more accurate guess.
Posted by: eddy at April 1, 2010 12:50 PM
I didn't see that article. He is close on the "$15 million makeover", but it will likely take more cap ex that even $15M.
Posted by: awakeandalert at April 1, 2010 1:00 PM
AAA and EBguy are both correct about the proposed budget for this place.
Posted by: sleepiguy at April 1, 2010 1:09 PM
The 20 mil is to get it "habitable". Minor's 15 mil figure is to get it adjusted to his "discerning taste". There is a difference.
No, never set foot in the place.
Remind me not to hire you guys to do my remuddle work. I can't afford you.
Posted by: jon at April 1, 2010 1:29 PM
Posted by: awakeandalert at April 1, 2010 1:48 PM
I have always been fascinated by the adjacent home to the west of the driveway on Washington. Was it at one time part of this property and is now sold off, or is it the staff wing of the property?
Posted by: Morgan at April 1, 2010 3:13 PM
The guy is 38 like I am 28. Used to work for the great man. The "Midas Touch" ? Or smart + canny timing?
Posted by: anonn at April 1, 2010 3:26 PM
SF Gate had a piece on the property. Do a google search. Sold for $1.5 in 1982.
An inspection was made in 2002, the inspector found $125 was needed to pass. The price in 2004 was $29 million. Hard to see that now it needs a complete rebuild to make it even habitable and the figure is $20 million.
I think you boys need to put the pipe down. Go to bed and try to get some rest. Bidding construction jobs requires a clear head.
Posted by: luc at April 1, 2010 3:54 PM
The Editor should merge the two threads.
Posted by: Shza at April 1, 2010 4:05 PM
The Editor should merge the two threads.
Seeing as how all the posts from the 2007 thread are from 2010, I tend to agree.
Posted by: eddy at April 1, 2010 4:09 PM
@Morgan; when the Pankow family sold, they kept what was the guest house across the driveway.. although the garage for Petit is actually in that adjacent property.
I worked in this property then and the skylit, two story foyer and formal rooms on the main level are indeed 'grand', as are the ball room and catering kitchen in the basement. The two turn of the century (thats 1900) Bakarat crystal chandeliers are a treasure - quite literally. The "private areas" - beds and baths - were just sad by comparison.
All in all, one of SF's greatest homes... I'd love the chance to stage it again!!
Posted by: DZinerSF at April 1, 2010 8:05 PM
Last March SF Gate wrote: "Major come-down: Recently crowned by a business magazine as "The Baddest Boy in Silicon Valley," Halsey Minor is now in the running as the most sued. According to the private equity newsletter, PEHub, Minor, the brains behind Cnet and a multitude of other money-spinning tech ventures, faces $60 million in lawsuits, one of which suggests that he doesn't have the money to pay what he owes. That means Minor, currently proprietor of the San Francisco VC firm Minor Ventures, may have burned through close to $300 million on sundries such as mansions in San Francisco and Bel-Air, racehorses in Virginia, and a Gulfstream jet. Among those suing are Sotheby's and Christie's auction houses for nonpayment of $24 million worth of paintings, an Atlanta bank for $10.5 million worth of missed loan payments on an unfinished luxury hotel in Charlottesville, Va., and Merrill Lynch for an unpaid $25 million loan, plus the collateral - artwork - that Minor allegedly sold off."
Posted by: FormerAptBroker at April 2, 2010 9:34 AM
It's a mess of a place. Because it is scaled-down version of the original building, unless you are a midget everything is out of scale. Enormous upkeep and surprisingly little grand space inside. Good house for an outsize ego.
Posted by: Philip at April 2, 2010 2:15 PM
In more bad news for this place... There are posted notices all over it from DBI that the home is in some sort of non-complience for an abandoned building. Not sure what that means exactly.
Posted by: sleepiguy at April 26, 2010 8:47 PM
According to the SF Recorders website, the NODs (First Republic & Merrill Lynch) were canceled on April 7, 2010. Also, from Bloomberg:
A painting of a blue-eyed nurse by Richard Prince and an aluminum couch by Marc Newson were among the artworks sold by Halsey Minor that helped the CNET Networks Inc. founder raise $21.1 million to pay his creditors.
Posted by: EBGuy at May 14, 2010 11:47 AM
From the Bay Citizen:
Onetime Internet mogul Halsey Minor, who co-founded CNET and helped fund Salesforce.com to great success, has apparently shuttered his San Francisco-based tech incubator.
And things appear to not be going well for Minor back East:
A federal judge in New York has made the Virginia and Delaware assets of CNet Networks Inc. founder Halsey Minor fair game, in light of his failure to pay out a $6.6 million court award to Sotheby's Inc. for reneging on a deal to buy three paintings.
There was one bright spot on the horizon, though:
Internet entrepreneur Halsey Minor earned a victory in his tangled dispute with Christie's International on Friday when a San Francisco jury found that the auction house had waited too long to return some of Mr. Minor's art after failing to sell the art on his behalf.
The jury's verdict in U.S. District Court led Judge William Alsup to order Christie's to pay $8.57 million in damages to Mr. Minor, according to the court ruling.
Posted by: EBGuy at June 8, 2010 1:51 PM
too bad in America individuals do not receive the same treatment as banks like First Republic and Merrill Lynch and Bank America, to name just a few.
The Federal government and its vast enterprise, including the Federal Reserve, will bail out the Merrills and First Republics and Bank Americas of the world, but cut no slack for the individual human being that was the bedrock of America's founding 200+ years ago but must now incur great expense in his or her fight for righteousness.
Hopefully, Mr. Minor will continue to fight these large entities and win out in the end.
Posted by: awakeandalert at June 8, 2010 3:37 PM
Found this awesome picture post 1906 Quake of 3800 Washington.
Posted by: eddy at April 18, 2011 10:17 AM
Evidently, some of the neighbors think it resembles an abandoned building in its current state. An order of abatement lien was filed on March 23, 2011
Posted by: EBGuy at April 18, 2011 10:33 AM
$25M + $25M for the adjacent lot. Didn't see this one coming. Byzantium Brokerage Been Busy (alliteration for the win)
Posted by: eddy at May 25, 2012 2:19 PM
It is kind of amazing how many of the original tech millionaires are broke now.
Posted by: NoeValleyJim at March 23, 2013 1:17 AM