April 30, 2010
45 Rosewood Awakens From Its Slumber
The sale of 45 Rosewood ("A dream home!") closed escrow today with a reported contract price of $1,551,000 ($443 per square foot). At 7 percent "Over Asking!" an official "26 days on the market" and just $38,000 (2 percent) under its year 2006 sale price, the sale might be seen (and sold) as a rather bullish sign.
That being said, do keep in mind the stats won’t mention the house was remodeled twice since its year 2006 sale (most recently to add a new bath). And the reports won’t reflect the fact that the house was first listed for sale a year ago (albeit without that new bath).
∙ Can You Be More Specific On The Kind Of Dream? (45 Rosewood Drive) [SocketSite]
∙ 45 Rosewood Returns, Has The Dream As Well? [SocketSite]
First Published: April 30, 2010 1:30 PM
Comments from "Plugged In" Readers
do keep in mind that the stats wont reflect that only people on socketsite who were never going to buy the house care enough to pore over the details of statistics that dont matter to most people...but only do it for the sake of pulling the shroud of LIES away from the real estate agents that perpetuate them!!!!
the house is worth what the house is worth to the person whose buying it. you think they give two shites what the previous people in a different market paid for it?
ps: whats with the starkist tuna ad. not like i wouldnt take their money, but...weird.
Posted by: anon$random at April 30, 2010 2:28 PM
"...statistics that dont matter to most people..."
The editor's point with these stats distorting tactics is to cast doubt on their accuracy. I've been coached by my agent before on offering price with guidance like "offers at 15% below asking aren't being accepted.". Perhaps the industry stats agree with this assertion, but as examples like this show that the stats are being manipulated to make it look less like a buyer's market.
I've received similar coaching regarding DOM : "Better get your offer in soon !"
Don't you think it is a good idea that the buying public is informed about the reality behind the stats used for guidance ?
And of course none of this subtle deception pertains to the superstar hero RE agents who post here, all of whom would have advised their clients on the real situation despite what the MLS database says. Odd though that all of the agents who post on SS have high integrity but I've had the bad fortune of selecting an agents who don't know or disclose the real situation.
I must be really unlucky.
Posted by: The Milkshake of Despair at April 30, 2010 2:55 PM
the stats wont reflect that only people on socketsite who were never going to buy the house care enough to pore over the details of statistics that dont matter to most peopleI stopped subscribing to Car&Driver my freshman year of college, but during high school I read each issue from cover to cover, even though I was "never going to buy" a Testarossa. If, however, for some reason I was in the market for a $100k car today, you can bet that I'd pick up the latest copy, perhaps even go to the library and peruse back issues.
Similarly, since Socketsite is on the, like, Internet, someone considering making an offer for a house like this can do a simple google search, or bing search or what have you, and get a hit like the socketsite post of March of 2009, and revise the offer they submit after gleaning the information contained in it.
Posted by: Brahma (incensed renter) at April 30, 2010 3:07 PM
While it is fun to read SS, I don't see how knowing the previous price would have any impact on the buyer's offer.
Knowing the sales price of similar properties around the area during the last 3 to 6 months would help dramatically, and that's what Zillow is for.
But knowing how much or how little the previous owner paid? No, I would have zero interest in that.
It is like..... sure, you would get Car and Driver (and Motor Trend and maybe consumer reports) if you are in the market for a car. Would you be interested in manufacturer's cost to make the car?
I would be interested the pricing for similar vehicles from other brands (easily searchable on the net) and what others have paid for the particular model I am interested in (a little more work, but still can find on the net).
Posted by: John at April 30, 2010 3:27 PM
All information (seller's purchase price, mortgage balance, impending divorce, etc) is useful in determining how motivated a seller is to make a deal. It's amazing how much personal information listing brokers casually leak out about a seller's financial situation ("It's shame, they have to sell, they just lost their jobs"). Not pretty but that's the way of the world.
Posted by: anon at April 30, 2010 3:36 PM
"Would you be interested in manufacturer's cost to make the car?"
Sure, why not? One of the key things for figuring out what to pay for a car is invoice price less dealer holdbacks, and then a secondary issue is incentives. All of these numbers have a logical relation to the manufacturer's cost of production (even if that means modest profits on a Honda Fit vs. massive profits on a Cadillac Escalade).
Knowing the prior sales price is valuable too. It provides information and context about the house you're considering buying. I'm not sure why less information rather than more information would ever be better when making large purchases.
Posted by: corntrollio at April 30, 2010 3:44 PM
anon at 3:36 sounds more reasonable. But corntrollio, you are just making up reasons.
To 3:36, yes and no.
It is like invoice price in buying a car. You may feel more comfortable knowing the invoice price, but it won't help you a bit with negotiation. Some popular cars are sold higher than invoice. Some are sold BELOW invoice. The key is still demand and supply. A way more useful number is what OTHERS pay for the car. And without knowing the invoice price, you can still negotiate the best deal by simply using email and have the dealers fight against each other.
Buying a RE is no different. If there is only one property you want and you won't settle for anything else, then just maybe those info is useful....however, if you won't settle for anything else, you are very likely to overpay anyway no matter how much you know about the seller.
The comparison between similar units are way more useful. So the key is to see a lot of properties and compare among them.
And you will never know how those "factors" may impact their expectations.
A divorced couple may do fire sale, but also may want as much as possible to lessen the financial impact on both parties.
If the purchase price was low, the seller may be fine to wait for a while for the best offer, or maybe want to sell quickly so he can have a vacation somewhere.
If the purchase price was higher than the listing, the seller may be willing to sell low to "cut the loss", or may want to wait to "recoup the loss".
This kind of info is as useless as the car seller's info (how much he paid initially, how much is the loan balance, whether he has impending divorce) when buying a car.
I am not saying SS is not fun to read. Personally, it is part of knowing the market in general sense.
Posted by: John at April 30, 2010 4:36 PM
actually in car buying, a number that has become very significant for buyers during the recent era of available information is the dealer invoice price. buyer advocates encourage people find out what this price is and offer accordingly.
Posted by: condoshopper at April 30, 2010 4:58 PM
oh, it's already been addressed.
Posted by: condoshopper at April 30, 2010 4:59 PM
Yo, SF woods, forest hill, monterey heights and west portal are in strong demand. These houses are not sitting on the market long and this is not early 2009 anymore. many people with cash are sitting on the sidelines and any half decent remodeled place is going fast.
Posted by: sunset hobo at April 30, 2010 6:09 PM
"You may feel more comfortable knowing the invoice price, but it won't help you a bit with negotiation."
Clearly you have been overpaying for cars. :) No doubt Plymouth Prowlers were selling above MSRP briefly, but most cars are commodities. If I don't like one dealer, I go to the next one, who often sells me the same damn car for a different price. (I've done this before -- I went to a dealer who was stonewalling me and saying he couldn't move on price from MSRP, then went to a second dealer across town who gave me the price I asked for the exact same car, and the car came from a third dealer)
Housing is essentially a commodity for most people too, although realtors try to do their best to call it a "home" so that it sounds like something more. Maybe you're just saying that some people irrationally fall in love with a house and are willing to overpay for it, but that doesn't negate the fact that they are paying above-market for it. And that doesn't mean all people are like that.
Knowing where you have leverage is ALWAYS an important part of negotiation. The divorced couple example is a good example of where you have negotiating leverage, as is a situation where the owner is moving to another city for work, as is a house sitting on the market for 6 months, and as are any number of other things.
"This kind of info is as useless as the car seller's info (how much he paid initially, how much is the loan balance, whether he has impending divorce) when buying a car."
Anyway, you're just saying you're happy with incomplete information. Good for you. I'm not happy with incomplete information, and I agree to disagree.
Posted by: corntrollio at April 30, 2010 6:10 PM
Hey Satchel, how is Florida treating you? If this house doesn't bring him out of the woodwork, nothing will.
Posted by: NoeValleyJim at May 1, 2010 12:44 AM
Hey Satchel, how is Florida treating you? If this house doesn't bring him out of the woodwork, nothing will
that would be a hoot -- and too true!
Posted by: Geo at May 9, 2010 7:42 AM