Purchased new for $665,000 in the year 2000, 246 2nd Street #806 is back on the market in 2010 asking $658,000. See silly rabbits (or perhaps “bears”), prices really haven’t fallen that much at all. And bank-owned sales are obviously irrelevant when it comes to comps.
∙ Listing: 246 2nd Street #806 (2/2) 1,101 sqft – $658,000 [MLS]
∙ Another Non-Comp Comp Closes At 246 2nd Street (#1003) [SocketSite]
How about the first resale of a ONE bedroom condo at 1234 Howard? That price stayed about even within a much shorter time span. Whatever that means…
^it means prices fell, then rose, then fell.
I chuckled at the word choice plus the juxtaposition of this thread in between a house on Divis @ Fell for ~1.4M and a 2 br 1.5ba condo in the Mission for 860K. What would those two have sold for in 2000?
housing was not cheap in 2000 but i didn’t know condo’s back then commanded this kind of price, as i was not in the market at that time. but of course, there were plenty who could buy this buy this with cash by just cashing out their stock portfolios or options, if they chose to.
I was curious about the hypothetical question I posed, so I went back and looked at it. The 25 5-M 2 br 1 1/2 ba condos sold in 2000 averaged $448 a foot. The top six or seven were all on 15th street too. Only two of those broke 800K, barely, and they were 200 feet larger than 1954. I think 1954 15th gets about 700K in 2000.
I don’t have time to look at the Divis property. But I’d guess it would have struggled to see 900K back in 2000, without a garage, and remembering what Divis and Fell was back then as compared to now.
Actually, I looked at a unit on the 9th floor that was slightly larger than this one back in 2000 for (if I recall correctly) $725,000. Ironically, it seemed too far away from downtown back then so I decided against it. (Also it was pretty clear that in all likelihood views from the unit I was interested in would be blocked by future construction.) I think the location is great but pricing is probably suffering because there are no real amenities in the building. Similarly sized units around the corner at SF BLU are going for around 100K more so it depends on how much you value moving into brand new construction.
Comparing this ugly and standard condo to the radical design of 1234 Howard seems like a mistake. This is a bunch of generic square footage at a location that is desirable largely because of the short distance to downtown, while 1234 Howard is aggressively styled and is situated in an area that is closer to Civic Center and the social problems that surround it than it is to downtown. Generic units near jobs will always sell faster than fashion outliers in transitional areas. Always.
Guess the listing agent reads socketsite, since they just rose the listing price to $679K…
I live at 246 2nd in a unit with the mirror image floor plan to this one. This unit is on the front left corner as you face the building. The view across 2nd is mostly blocked by Courtyard Marriot. The main view is down 2nd toward the ball park as the picture in the listing shows. The HOA is currently negotiating some construction defect claim settlements as our 10-year window is about to close. The associated legal filings have created some issues with mortgage availability, which has resulted in prices being depressed (nothing remotely similar to the Beacon, thank God). Property Shark does not work very well for this building, so I’m not sure who the owner is. The developer retained a large number of units after construction and has been selling them off one-by-one for about a year now.
I can not believe the HOA fees are that high for a building with no amenities. I like the building and I like the location, but those fees are as high as the Bridgeview and approaching that of the Met, yet those buildings have a gym and pool. There are many buildings with amenities similar to that of 246 2nd, yet the fees are lower. The only exception being Blu, but at least they have all those windows to wash!
And can someone explain to me why they would increase the list price after only 1 day on the market?
The fees are high because the building isn’t large enough to support all the life-safety stuff you need to build now days. Phone lines in the elevators, backup generators, alarm systems, etc.
These things need to maintained. With only 92 units the economy scale works against it. The Met/Infinity, etc have many more units.
I will say this once again: HOA Dues / Amenities is not the entire equation. Factor in % of reserve actually funded. This is a significant part of where your dues should be going. If you’re paying the pool boy now, instead of saving up to replaster the pool and replace the filtration equipment that is not prudent management. 246 2nd may be amenity poor, but the building is well maintained and the reserve is funded at a very high percentage. I can speak only anecdotally, but many of the amenity rich buildings referenced as being great HOA values have their reserves funded at sub 50% levels.
@OneEyedMan: I can understand that it may be well funded, but there are many similar sized well-funded buildings. For example, The Lansing, 310 Townsend, 199 New Montgomery, are to name a few with good reserves and with active properties on the market.
@OneEyedMan: My apologies, the HOA fees were changed when the price changed. The original price was $658K with HOA fees of $670, and when the price was changed to $679k, the HOA fees were changed to $579, which is much more reasonable.
“Guess the listing agent reads socketsite, since they just rose the listing price to $679K.”
The listing agent is also the owner. He bought it back in 2000.
I saw the unit today and have a couple of comments and questions.
First, the unit is a mess inside. There is problem with the flooring to which the owner/agent will put a claim into his homeowners insurance (from 2 separate leakage issues – the 1st being from the garbage disposal, the 2nd from the dishwasher, both which resulted in the floor cabinetry being ruined in the kitchen). Additionally, the unit was very poorly kept by the tenants (it has been rented since it was bought in 2000). The grouting in the bathrooms, carpet, etc., will all have to replaced (in addition to the kitchen flooring problem). Then there was the little things like the inside of the kitchen cabinets were wallpapered – yes wallpapered!
Second, the windows in the bedroom and the sliding door to the balcony both have “chicken wire”, which means that its a property line window, and those windows could at some point be blocked/closed by the building next door.
Third, everything in the apartment felt cheap, basic, and overly worn – from the GE appliance package (there was also an issue with the stove at some point), To the cabinets, to the fixtures (bath and lighting), etc. There were things like the cable TV outlets were rigged making it all appear sloppy.
Next, it lists the unit as having central electric heat, which is fine, but that is only the kitchen/living room. Both the bedrooms have electric baseboard heat – very unsightly. Also the microwave fan does not vent out, it vents back into the apartment.
So all in all, needs work. The unit has been treated poorly, and it shows. The most worrisome issue is the property line potential issues (maybe OneEyedMan can comment).
PS: The parking space also has the added hassle of being next to a pole.
PPS: Any word on why One Hawthorne is stalled?
Second, the windows in the bedroom and the sliding door to the balcony both have “chicken wire”, which means that its a property line window, and those windows could at some point be blocked/closed by the building next door.
Is that true? I used to live there (on the other side of the building) and the door to balcony had chicken wire, but the other windows along the same side didn’t. I always assumed it was a safety requirement.
It definitely is true that there was chicken wire on the door to the balcony and one window in the bedroom. I am almost positive its for the property line (not 100% sure). I dont know why you would have the chicken wire only on some of the windows if its a safety requirement, and I haven’t seen any other buildings where chicken wire was considered to be a safety features (i.e. why don’t all buildings have chicken wire in their windows).
As a separate note, how did you like living there? Do you know why One Hawthorne is stalled?
Buildings without a certain set-back from the property line require a 3-hour rated protection of openings or window sprinklers, regardless of whether there is a building there or not. If you look at picture #5 closely you can see the sprinkler heads in the corner windows. The balcony door and some bedroom windows have rated glass instead of the sprinkler heads.
I didn’t get a chance to stick my head into the unit at the open house. It amazes me how re-litters frequently ignore their standard advice on preparing a property to sell when it’s not OP money. Standard advice would have been to have the floor and appliance repairs made, and the unit “freshened up” as much as financially possible prior to an open house.
There was an issue long ago with the flexible connections between the angle stops and the plumbing fixtures leaking. All owners were required to replace these hoses with the steel braided style. Sounds like this guy just signed the form that said he had the connections replaced and did not actually have the work done.
The standard light and plumbing fixtures are indeed cheap. The first thing I did was replace the kitchen sink and faucet, which went a long way toward improving the appearance of the entire kitchen. I also took down that nasty flourescent fixture in the kitchen and put in a nice halogen fixture. Our baths will receive the same treatment soon.
There is no central heat in the units. The LR has a wall heater with a remote stat. The bedrooms have baseboard heaters. The baths have a heater/fan/light combo. We have never had any of the heaters in our unit on.
The microwave venting is what we consider the absolute worst thing about our home. The fixtures and appliances we can change. This short-sighted developer decision we have to live with.
The garage is a little tight – but it’s not stackers!
@OneEyedMan: Thanks for the info. I always thought that chicken wire meant it was a property line.
The guy who owns this is also a realtor, and it has been rented out since it was purchased in 2000.
He also mentioned some pending litigation, any idea on that story (and how it may impact the HOA fees). Speaking of HOA fees, I looked at the fees that were assessed to 1003 (same floorplan but mirrored and on a higher floor), and it was significantly lower than these fees. He said there was also stuff in the past like a water heater breaking on the roof, impacting 3 or 4 units, and that some balconies created a water issue with the garage.
Finally, any idea on the parking situation? He said the spaces weren’t deeded.
Very interesting, does anyone know if the building next door can build up? It is a historic building, even though I am not so sure what it is. If you can find that out, you can find out if the chicken wire is for safety reasons or if it is a property line type thing.
^^^ Sometimes non-historic additions to historic buildings are approved. The Ritz-Carlton added several floors for example.
Any idea on whether they will do it?
Anyone know if this place has earthquake insurance? Which of the big buildings in the city has earthquake insurance?
A 2/2 is asking for $3,600/month rent in this building. I’m not sure of the unit. If someone can swoop in at this price, and rent it out at $3,595/month, I think it would be parity to owning.
I heard this building is in litigation, and that owners may be assessed between $25k-$40k per unit. Any idea on what’s happening there?
I’m not going to even try to summarize (it looks ‘extensive’), but here’s the link to the lawsuit.
The lawsuit was filed because the 10 year statute of limitations on construction defect litigation was due to expire. The HOA’s counsel is working on negotiating a settlement and not going to litigation. As is typical in construction defect cases, you throw as much against the wall as possible so you can negotiate some of it away and still get enough to fix the major problems. Biggest issues are with water intrusion – the same as every high rise condo in the City. Have you seen the Met lately? Big fix underway there. HOA has “borrowed” from the reserve fund to pay attornies and independant test agencies and engineering firms to assess the repairs required and estimate their costs. Until the negotiation/litigation has run it’s course we don’t know what funds will be available for repairs. At that time the HOA will determine what to fix with the funds available. There has been no talk of a special assessment. If we get $0 and want to repair everything ourselves it may very well be $30K per unit. However, that possibility is remote.
OneEyedMan, great insight! Do you know if parking is deeded in this building? Also, if you have the same floor plan, do your windows also have the chicken-wire? You are correct in noticing the chicken wire in the bedroom, but the window in that room opens, suggesting that its not for fire safety reasons (they would be fixed, and not openable).
I should know, but do not, if the parking is assigned or deeded. I am on the opposite side of the building from the listed unit. I have reinforcing in the glass in the door to the balcony. The adjacent window has a sprinkler head. The MBR also has reinforced glass in an operable window. It is rated, it has the Warnock Hersey tag on it.
When you say ‘reinforcing’ glass, do you mean the kind with the chicken wire? One last question, how do the storage lockers work, are there additional fees?
Chiken wire = yes. Storage lockers(3′ x 3′ x 5′ cages) were installed several years after the building opened and were offered for sale to residents. The story is fewer people bought them than expected, and they were then discounted quite a bit. We rent one from another resident that bought extras after they were discounted for $50 mo. There is an annual HOA fee that is about $35 per locker.
Thanks for the info. You are wise like Buddha when it comes to this property.
What’s up with this place, I heard the litigation is going to trial? Does that mean that assessments are on the way?
Any idea on what’s up with this place. The unit #806 has been in contract for a while, was it a short sale?
Looks like this thread was never updated. Per PropertyShark, #806 closed last May with a purchase price of $650K. Recently relisted and now asking $738K. Doesn’t look like any major remodeling has taken place from the pictures. Have Soma condo prices gone up 14% over the last year? We’re about to find out.
400 Beale, sold in 2000, 2010 and 2011 for virtually the same price.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Francisco/400-Beale-St-94105/unit-1205/home/1125894
Not up 14%