66 Sea Cliff Avenue
This is as close to “cherry picking” as we’ll come. Or more accurately, it’s a recently closed “apples to apples” sale in Sea Cliff that we didn’t point out prior to its sale but a plugged-in reader noticed and an outcome that actually caught us a little by surprise. Perhaps there’s a story of which we don’t know and you can set the record straight.
Anyway, the sale of 66 Sea Cliff closed escrow last week with a reported contract price of $1,850,000. Originally listed for $2,448,000 in September of 2009, last asking $2,148,000 (as of November), and purchased for $2,525,000 in April 2004. Call it a nearly six year hold for the single-family home and 27 percent drop in value.
The property is part of the rather real Sea Cliff community. And as a plugged-in reader notes, “6 lots away from 120 Sea Cliff Ave, the Sharon StonePhil Bronstein $8M to $16M Cash Flip to William R Hearst III whose Grandma built the original house (or something like that).”
Editor’s Note: Related comments have been moved from Not So Lucky Number Eights (Maybe The Nines Will Be Better).
∙ Ex-Listing: 66 Sea Cliff Avenue (3/2.5) – $2,448,000 [66seacliff.com]
Not So Lucky Number Eights (Maybe The Nines Will Be Better) [SocketSite]
Big House, Big Views, Big Dreams, And Big News…It’s In Contract [SocketSite]

71 thoughts on “What’s The Story Morning Glory For 66 Sea Cliff Avenue?”
  1. Wow, that’s a huge drop on 66 Sea Cliff in just under 6 years. Any explanation other than bubbliness?
    $2.525M sale in April 2004.
    $1.85M sale closed today, for a 27% drop.
    Even bigger if you consider the real drop — inflation adjusted, that 2004 sale would be almost $2.9M (36% drop).

  2. ^^^ 66 Sea Cliff is an apple. 27% under its 2004 price, and 12% under early
    2002.
    No squawks from the usual SF real estate boosters on here trying to dismiss
    the latest sale, which is a boatload more than 5-10% off? No “busy street”,
    “it’s a condo”, “foggy”, “not the Real SF”, “flawed property”, “there’s a
    gas station nearby”…. No “circa 1998 HGTV remodel” or “it has ‘flow’
    problems”. No “quick sale” dismissals (it was listed for more than 4
    months, starting at $2,448,000 in September 2009). Not even a “no one knows
    the backstory here” or the classic “he overpaid”.
    Just silence.
    The seller no doubt thought he did everything right. SFH, prime area, prime
    block within that area. Loans shows he put 30% down in 2004 – SEVEN HUNDRED
    AND FIFTY-SEVEN THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED CLAMS. After 6 years he had lost it
    all to the SF real estate bubble.
    Every last dime.

  3. Retaining wall, south slope, distressed sale, …
    Seriously, a 700K loss + ~130K commission is a lot. Add to this the financing cost: probably 6500K+ in monthly interest payments, 2.5K in property taxes. Add and deduct the usual things and we’re coming to a total north of 1.4M spent.
    In 6 years.

  4. Wow. 66 Seacliff looks like a beautiful home, completely redone, with views and a yard.
    Whoever bought it ignored the boosters and people saying prices were going up, and realized that prices are headed firmly DOWN and that people are wisely staying away from buying. That buyer bargained hard, knowing any competition was a complete bluff.
    http://www.66seacliff.com/
    (Turn off the music in the upper right)

  5. I earlier posted another property a stone’s throw away that showed quite a different result, 345 El Camino. Nobody said anything about that one either. But this is a big loss. No question about it. I don’t know the backstory, but it’s a stark loss.

  6. For 345 El Camino, it is definitely not an apple according to description, but looks like it actually sold above asking. Congrats to the seller!
    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Francisco/345-El-Camino-Del-Mar-94121/home/606291
    Asking was $2.049M, and sale was $2.192M. Previous sale, $1.21M in 1998 (almost $1.6M in 2009 dollars). The claim is $200K on work, which is probably lowballing it.
    The new owner has 3 permits for almost $100K of claimed work, one of which is some random repairs ($12K), one of which appears to be seismic work ($40K), and the last of which appears to be for remodeling ($43K for some reconfiguring, lights, windows, doors, electrical, plumbing).

  7. It certainly looked like an apple from the old listing and the photos. Point taken about 1998 versus 2004. Man, maybe that wasn’t the one I was thinking of. If I have time later I’ll check back.

  8. 66 Sea Cliff is 6 lots away from 120 Sea Cliff Ave, the Sharon Stone\Phil Bronstein $8M to $16M Cash Flip to William R Hearst III whose Grandma built the original house (or something like that).
    Cute little house with expansion potential to fully capture the Magnificient Sea Cliff Views.

  9. I saw this online and loved it, saw it in person and hated it. Hard to explain why — just has kind of a darkness that does not translate online. But, I think this just shows the danger of overpricing in this market (not to metion overpaying in 2005, which is another story). If it had originally been priced at say $2.1, it probably would have moved quicker, and sold for more that what it ultimately went for.
    It actually also fell out of escrow twice, I assume at prices higher than what it ultimately sold for.

  10. To be honest, this sale looks odd. But some of you might be surprised to learn that savvy people are capable of making good buys from time to time.

  11. One other point — at least a 4th of the so-called square footage is actually a dreary windowless converted garage/basement that they are trying to pawn off as a “family room”, notwithstanding the corkboard walls and the pipes that run along the walls (and I think there make have been a few floor to ceiling pipe “columns” in the middle of the room to boot).

  12. I’m just going to stand back and laugh at the photoshopping and wide angle lens used to make this shack look like an actual house.

  13. 66 Sea Cliff also sold in 2002, for $2.1mil.
    So, not only did the 2004 buyer overpay, but so did the 2002 buyer. Silly Sea Cliff buyers! Couldn’t even figure out the comps, with 100’s of k’s in downpayments riding on it. At least the 2002 buyer found a sucker to buy it.

  14. That’s a new one:
    As somebody who is actively looking for a house in this price range, I will gladly pay $2.1 million for a house that is not bleak like this one way. But some, like this, are just dreary on the inside, nothwithstanding a high square footage and good location. For this one, you could not have sold it to me at any price, even $1.8 million. And apparently I was not the only one who felt this way.
    I am not surprised that the other comparable Sea Cliff property sold for over asking at several hundred thousand dollars more — it was much nicer!

  15. One other point — if you all are right and this really does mean that the SF single family home market in prime areas is crashing, I am one lucky girl! Thanks for making my day — I think I’ll go out and buy a house in Presidio Heights or Pacific Heights for 2 million! Oh wait, hmm, there aren’t any listed for that, or even for 3 million . . .

  16. “overpaid” “darkenss (sic) to it” — dismissed.
    Yawn… Not biting.
    Buyers are now looking at what they are buying. It’s not Location, location, location like the good all days. That’s a good thing.

  17. Agreed. And all the realtors who didn’t talk appreciation, appreciation, appreciation are looking pretty good in their clients eyes these days too.

  18. J,
    You are right. I was wrong, there are actually 3 crappy looking places (2 of which are closer to 3 million than 2 million), and then 1 on California and 1 on Sacramento.
    Nice try — if you are not already a real estate agent, you should consider becoming one!

  19. Agreed that the basement is hideous. Especially if it’s being included in square footage. The ceiling light looks like it belongs in a parking garage and it is completely unacceptable to have any pipes showing. It looks like they didn’t finish off their to do list when they got to the lower level.

  20. A self-described fixer for close to 3 million (one of the MLS listings posted by J)
    would certainly meet my definition of both “dark” and “crappy”. In fact, it is apparently so dark and crappy that they chose not to show any pictures of the interior online

  21. When someone says something doesn’t exist, proving them wrong 5 times is usually good enough to get the point across…
    There were no qualifications to “there aren’t any listed for that”.
    It is clear that someone is just pulling random falsehoods out of some unknown dark hole.

  22. J,
    As I say, I hope you are right, so that some day soon my 2+ million can actually allow me to buy a nice house in a nice part of District 7.
    If you think that I can do that currently, then I don’t think I am the one pulling random falsehoods out of some unknown dark hole. . .

  23. How can you call 2319 Washington crappy or dark?
    “Stylish remodeled home in the heart of Pacific Hts, within walking distance of Alta Plaza Park and Lafayette Park, close to Fillmore Street shops and restaurants. Fantastic 3 or 4 bedroom home with an amazing roof garden and lovely terrace. Elegant living room, dining room, plus bright family room and kitchen with an enormous skylight. The kitchen is completely remodeled as are the luxurious bathrooms, office, sitting room, two fireplaces. Perfect nanny suite, storage and two car parking.”
    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Francisco/2319-Washington-St-94115/home/930552

  24. Anna,
    I agree with you that it was the 2nd nicest of the 5 listed. However, given that it has sat on the market for close to 90 days even in the face of one price reduction, I apparently am not the only one who is not tempted by it, notwithstanding the price.
    Again, I am so excited though that there is all of this great affordable real estate out there in prime areas. What a buyer’s market, I can hardly decide which great deal to snap up!

  25. “I can hardly decide which great deal to snap up!”
    Then you should get to work placing an offer quickly as that decision may become even harder as the year rolls out.

  26. Milkshake,
    Do you think that maybe if I wait long enough I will even be able afford a fixer-upper with a view?!

  27. I saw 66 in person and it was a very nice home and staged well. Very un-SF from a motif but a nice home. It was about 2100+ sq ft and that didn’t include the garage/basement that has a lot of potential (another 1000sqft). There was plenty of light and openness but they did use some camera angles to get the rooms to look bigger online. Still, it was a great little house with ocean views from 2 bedrooms and a peek at the GGB. And it’s a 2min walk to Baker Beach.
    And J., those PH listings all have major issues. The small sacramento is a joke, California home is a gut job, as is 2150 Sac, 2921 is ok, but has issues — probably will sell for 2.3 but need 300-400k), and the Washington house was a 2 family and has no flow. But there have been a smattering of $2M homes in PH over the last year. They all sold in 72 hours and most needed a little TLC.
    At ~850/ sq ft. in an 1000/sq ft neighborhood I’d say the buyer got a very good deal. I’d be curious to understand how this got from $2.4 to $1.85 so quickly. The prior 2 sales sold for over asking and closed in less than 45 days so this home is obviously desirable to certain people. Not sure if this is the new market or not, anytime a home closes this much below its last asking price it’s usually a sign of seller fatigue or seller distress. I think this home could be flipped in the spring for more than this price and a little tiddying up. Congrat’s to the buyers!

  28. Roxxie:
    I am also confused by your statements. Perhaps it is because your definition of “nice” is different than ours?
    2319 may have some problems (clearly it has a small lot) but the place certainly isn’t a dump, nor is it in a bad location, nor is it dark.
    I’ve seen worse places in SF list for $2.5M.
    the fact that it’s sitting doesn’t prove that it has problems, it may only mean that the market is very slow right now (it’s January, hardly a brisk market on ANY year).

  29. This may be a smaller home on a GREAT block in Seacliff..next to significant “mansion” type residences.
    Great potential here at the lower level; 1000 sf of essentially raw space..this level opens onto the rear spacious yard…potential for a family room, home office, laundry room and storage…ceilings are low and could be increased by lowering the slab to achieve 8′-0″..
    kitchen has great lite and views to yard..could be updated..baths need updating, but good layouts..
    This is a real winner in terms of added value by remodeling…

  30. ex SF-er,
    I am an actual buyer versus a hypotheical one, which maybe means that I am using different criteria, who knows ? 2319 Washington will appeal to someone in time, and I certainly don’t mean to suggest that it is an actual dump.
    I just think that until there are more than a handful of houses in PH under 3 million. most of which have issues (and literally one under 2 million), I will have a hard time believing that the market is dropping as much as some on this website believe (and again, as a buyer, I actually stand to benefit if prices continue to drop, so I hope that I am wrong!)

  31. Ok, its not 6 lots away from Stone’s house…even though they are big lots there are more like 15 away. Second this house is sitting on a land locked parcel, no view …you could be anywhere usa. But you are in SeaCliff…relatively safe and secure from District 6 Daly problems.

  32. I saw this home and was shocked that the owner spent so much money when he bought it in 2004. This is a perfect example of the type of exuberance the former buyers felt during the housing bubble…gotta buy, gotta buy or I will miss out!!!!
    This home is set in front of a bigger home–it feels like it really should the guest cottage of the other home. That was strike number one. Strike number two was the basement/garage being marketed as being more than just a basement/garage.
    This home sold for what it is really worth. This is not about the housing market crapping out. It is about the true value of a home.

  33. Roxxie:
    Makes sense.
    A few thoughts: the market will likely never fall as far as some people have claimed here on SS, and will fall far further than others have claimed. and this will be a neighborhood by neighborhood type of thing.
    There are still prime areas of San Diego that saw barely any drop and they are 2 years further into their downturn compared to SF. So some areas will hold up better than others.
    That said, despite many howls to the contrary, I still see very little that would suggest that we are anywhere near the end of this current RE downturn nationwide and in SF. We have years left of downturn.
    I think this apple is very intriguing, and it does give some interesting information. However, sales numbers in Dec/Jan are usually low, and thus you must wonder why this seller didn’t wait until the post-Superbowl surge like most sellers. were they distressed?
    IMO now is a very risky time to be buying real estate. there are many macroeconomic headwinds against housing as an asset class in 2010 and 2011. However risky doesn’t mean that one will lose their pants only that the probability of losing is higher… in general the higher the risk, the higher the reward if you guess right and the higher the pain if you guess wrong. Just like Buffet’s risky investment in Goldman Sachs during the financial crisis… he made a boat load. But the Middle Easterners made an equally risky bet on Citi and failed miserably.

  34. It’s Land Locked,
    Please look again, it is 6 lots away from 120 Sea Cliff Avenue. Look it up on MapJack and count the Blue Dots. 120 and 66 are practically in the same picture.
    It is not Land Locked when it is right on Sea Cliff Ave. Nobody said this house is Waterfront or had direct Beach access, however, as Eddy posted, it is a 2 min walk to the Beach through secluded Sea Cliff steps.
    When I mentioned expansion potential, I was thinking about an extention of the home that would include some form of pentroom that could fully capture the breath taking views enjoyed by homes a few doors away.
    Please consider that 120 Sea Cliff sold for $16M Cash and 66 Sea Cliff sold for $1.85M probably with financing.

  35. There are still prime areas of San Diego that saw barely any drop and they are 2 years further into their downturn compared to SF. So some areas will hold up better than others
    It’s still so jarring to me to see this said. How is it not something different, then? Countrywide was doling out the same loans in San Diego that they were here.

  36. From an East Coast lens, nearly two million clams are a lot to pay for a house that sounds as though it’s far from perfect. Was this house was worth it even in the good old days? I understand about location, location, location (I owned in NYC for seven years) and I’m familiar with Sea Cliff, but SF real estate is somewhat demented.

  37. Ex SF-er wrote:
    > There are still prime areas of San Diego that saw barely any
    > drop and they are 2 years further into their downturn
    > compared to SF. So some areas will hold up better than others
    I have good friends that work in Real Estate and live in Point Loma, La Jolla and Del Mar that I e-mail about real estate on a regular basis. I don’t know what you mean by “barely any drop” but even the “best areas” of San Diego County have dropped a lot more than the “best areas” of San Mateo and San Francisco Counties.
    P.S. to Roxxie in addition to being an “actual buyer versus a hypotheical one” you wouldn’t happen to also be a Realtor ®? I’ve never met an “actual buyer” (that was not also a Realtor ® get so upset when someone posted links to homes under $3mm…

  38. Comparing SF real estate to the east coast is ridiculous. We already know it’s expensive here. San Francisco is expensive, period. That’s part of our cachet, that’s part of our uniqueness..and no, I’m not saying parts of the east coast are not unique..For SF this house is not expensive. Look at the neighborhood again. It’s pretty nice. this is a prime street.
    Yes, there are views. I’ve been in the house. You can see a large part of the ocean and the Marin Headlands from one of the rear bedrooms. You can also see one of the towers of the GG bridge. Those are called views.

  39. “I have good friends that work in Real Estate and live in Point Loma, La Jolla and Del Mar that I e-mail about real estate on a regular basis. I don’t know what you mean by “barely any drop” but even the “best areas” of San Diego County have dropped a lot more than the “best areas” of San Mateo and San Francisco Counties.”
    That’s my impression as well for Point Loma, La Jolla, and Del Mar.

  40. “San Francisco is expensive, period. That’s part of our cachet, that’s part of our uniqueness”
    Someone apparently has never heard of this small island that’s half the size of SF with twice the number of people called “Manhattan.”
    In comparison, SF probably has a lot more SFRs with yards, its rent control works differently, it has Prop 13 (and 58), and has the Board of Supervisors, planning department, and “historic” preservation groups working overtime to keep values high artificially by preventing building in general as well as densification.

  41. “San Francisco is expensive, period. That’s part of our cachet, that’s part of our uniqueness”
    Really? When talking about other cities it is important to find a neighborhood that is similar. Sea Cliff is very nice so why not compare it to Pacific Pallisades, Brentwood or Winnetka & Lincoln Park? Does San Francisco seem so expensive then? Not to me. I actually think San Francisco is no more expensive than affluent districts of any other top 7 American urban areas.

  42. @ anon: you just like to argue, period.
    I never mentioned Manhattan, nor made the comparison. there is no comparison. they are two very different great cities.
    I maintain that we are “expensive” by the nature of our livability, walkability, lack of density, lifestyle, (mostly) great weather, character, attraction to lots of intellectual….and in general because people WANT to live here. market demand determines price.

  43. anon94123, don’t forget the People’s Republic of Santa Monica. Or Beverly Hills. Or Palos Verdes (cf. Sea Cliff). Or any number of other places in LA. And those are places with better schools than SF. Of course, you have to include Peninsula/South Bay locales when doing the comparo too, which improves the schools per $$ count.
    But continue with the odd provincialism about SF, please.

  44. Noearch, you lost me when you listed “attraction to lots of intellectual…. “. San Francisco may have “character”, but I never heard it described as an “intellectual” city before.
    You as an architect must admit, that the walkability is no different between Noe Valley and somone living in Santa Monica off of Montana Avenue or some other neighborhood nearby. As Tehrangeles Dweller mentioned, it is surprising how many other cities have walkable hoods, and my short list includes NYC, Boston, Philly, Chicago, Portland, Seattle, and many parts of Los Angeles including Larchmont Village, Silverlake, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, etc. Why do San Franciscans think they are the only city with walkable neighborhoods with corner coffeehouses, bookstores and cafes?

  45. “You can see a large part of the ocean and the Marin Headlands from one of the rear bedrooms. You can also see one of the towers of the GG bridge. Those are called views.”
    a view from a back bedroom is nice, but not very useful. Most people don’t spend much of their waking life in the bedroom. Even then the curtains are usually left drawn during the fleeting moments of preparing for the day or reading for bed.
    Such a bedroom would be put to better use as an office where the curtains need not be drawn. An advantage if you work from home though most buyers will be traveling to their employer’s site during the day.

  46. seriously milkshake……you have a very poetic way of finding negative with any comments here..I didn’t realize that views had to be “useful.thanks for correcting me. I’m so glad that “most buyers” will be traveling to their site..
    wtf??

  47. Can someone please explain who wants to live in a neighborhood full of almost dead people? I mean seriously – what is the point? This neighborhood is a retirement community. Someone please sell me on the virtues – I am lost.

  48. “Can someone please explain who wants to live in a neighborhood full of almost dead people? I mean seriously – what is the point? This neighborhood is a retirement community”
    Tell THAT to Robin Williams.

  49. Anon wrote:
    > Can someone please explain who wants to live in a
    > neighborhood full of almost dead people?
    Since it is usually so foggy out there you won’t be able to tell how old your neighbors are…
    Then MsDoubtfire wrote:
    > Tell THAT to Robin Williams.
    I’ve met Robin Williams and he is a nice guy, but since he has a history of heart problems in his family (his brother who started Toad Hollow Vineyards died a few years back) and has admitted a lot of problems over the years with drugs and alcohol he is on my “almost dead people” list…

  50. As a resident living there we have quite the nice community out here with lots of families and it has a very social element to it. More so than when I lived in Pacific Heights where we lived for 5 years and only rarely spoke to our neighbors. Sea Cliff is very much a neighborhood and most the homes are “lived in” and less trophy than outer broadway. The fog is over-exaggerated here too compared to Richmond / Sunset. Those areas are socked in and Sea Cliff usually burns off quickly. But it there is certainly more fog here than in Noe.
    We toured this home and it was delightful. Welcome!

  51. Why is it that whenever somebody says something nice about the place they live some assdork has to term it provincial and frame it in some sort of So Cal Norcal rivalry way? Buzz off with that tired garbage already. So cal is fine. So is norcal. Sheesh.

  52. noearch – Yes, the “usefulness” of a view is a big factor, at least for me. The best place for a view is in a living area like a living room or even a kitchen. Surely as someone who wrangles with floorplans you must realize this.
    I’ll give you an extreme case if you’re still unclear on the concept. I’ve toured a couple of homes that had a stunning view from the window in the bathroom but nowhere else. It would be hard to extract much enjoyment from that view especially since you have to be standing to see over the window sill.

  53. I think the view point is clear here and we’re dealing with semantics. But I’d rather have A view from the bathroom than no view. There was a similar discussion on the Bourne Mansion and it’s views. Its view weren’t the best, but it has views nonetheless.

  54. “It would be hard to extract much enjoyment from that view especially since you have to be standing to see over the window sill.”
    A view that requires you to either sh*t or get off the pot?

  55. Saw this home. The kitchen was small and barely had any room for eating in. In general, felt like a guest cottage (a nice guest cottage)–or a cramped home. With re: to the basement/garage, it was terrible–cold, with indoor/outdoor carpeting laid down, pipes running all over, and an unhooked washer + dryer there NEXT TO a desk that was supposed to represent a makeshift office/work area? Did not make sense as there was also game room suggestion with something like a dart board there. Very weird and unappealing–but MOST importantly, what they hoped to gain with (suggested) living sq footage, they ERASED for garage space!! So, that leaves parking outdoors at the end of the driveway for any owners. NOT ideal in Sea Cliff where the salt air, no matter how much or little fog is out, is very real and corrosive. Granted, street parking not an issue in the neighborhood (everyone else has at least one garage)–but who wants to schlep groceries in the rain AND up stairs to the kitchen (esp. after the rain we’ve had of late!). Could bypass the “work/laundry/game-room” stairs and go through the front entrance on the side (a few steps there) and drip all over the Foyer.
    Wonderful neighborhood. Suboptimal home.
    P.S. I remember there was a “for rent” sign out for awhile before it went on the market. I guess they tried to made lemonade–but ended up offering an apple (to some people’s taste).

  56. Moch, you are totally clueless; this home is probably one of the best buys on SS in a LONG time. Period. Home is absolutely beautiful!

  57. Well, slamyou [not very nice!], I’ve been thinking abt your post, and even though I thought the home was a bit dark and the spaces small (the downstairs strange), it IS a home–and after looking at recent condo prices on the site, you’re right–for a free-standing home SFD, with yard and in a safe, nice neighborhood, not bad. Not bad at all. OK–pretty darn good.

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