December 22, 2009

Not So Lucky Number Eights (Maybe The Nines Will Be Better)

6521 California

Purchased for $562,000 in April 2004 but then "completely renovated [with] extensive high quality and designer touches throughout this charming house," 6521 California returned to the market just three months later asking $888,000. It closed escrow in August 2004 with an MLS reported sale price of $938,888.

According to public records the buyers of the house in 2004 financed the purchase with two variable rate loans totaling $938,850. And according to its latest listing, the "Sea Cliff" house is now bank owned and asking $799,900 (but subject to tenant rights).

Apparently $38 isn’t enough skin to keep a buyer in the game.

UPDATE: With respect to how the San Francisco Association of Realtors defines Sea Cliff:

SFAR Sea Cliff Map

∙ Listing: 6521 California (2/2 + 1/1) 1,474 sqft - $799,900 [MLS] [Map]
San Francisco Real Estate Districts: Maps And Neighborhoods [SocketSite]

First Published: December 22, 2009 10:00 AM

Comments from "Plugged In" Readers

What is the technical border between Seacliff and the Richmond? I ask because a friend of mine lives only a block or two east from here but says he lives in the Richmond.

Yet another unwarranted in-law though. I wonder how common these things really are. I still don't understand why rent control applies to these sorts of situations. One would think it would, again, as most SF policies do, have a tendency to decrease rental stock in the city.

This place was listed from October '08 to April with one price change. Anyone know what it was listed for? I may go check it out to see how "as-is" it really is.

Posted by: anon at December 22, 2009 10:40 AM

This is NOT Seacliff. It is on California St. which is clearly Richmond.

Posted by: waiting2nest at December 22, 2009 10:50 AM

Agreed on that. Feels like Richmond, looks like Richmond.

Plus, what's with the "8" fetish? Everyone by now should know salesmen will exploit your superstitions. It obviously didn't work for this property! I suggest a prospective buyer makes an offer of 181,818.18!

Posted by: agreed at December 22, 2009 10:57 AM

This is another bad one by the SFAR. California street is in Sea Cliff? No, it's not. This is just like Guerrero is in Noe Valley. Probably worse because Sea Cliff has gates. Weird.

Posted by: anonn at December 22, 2009 11:18 AM

Truly amazing that someone would have paid $900k+ for a glorified hut in Richmond.

Posted by: Amen Corner at December 22, 2009 11:19 AM

Sea Cliff has gates??? I ride my bike through there all the time and never go through any gates...

Posted by: J at December 22, 2009 11:21 AM

A friend of mine used to live close by to this place and would tell people he lived in "Outer Sea Cliff" as a joke.

Posted by: Fishchum at December 22, 2009 11:24 AM

Yeah, Sea Cliff has some neighborhood gates. I think they're actually on California:

http://www.sanfranciscodays.com/seacliff/

Posted by: anonn at December 22, 2009 11:28 AM

Maybe Guerrero can be Noe Valley Heights or something similarly absurd like Lower Pacific Heights. I propose we call this area Inland Sea Cliff, just for fun.

Posted by: anon at December 22, 2009 11:31 AM

It would seem that 8 is used to attract Chinese buyers.

"Eight (八; accounting 捌; pinyin bā) is considered a lucky number in Chinese culture because it sounds like the word meaning to generate wealth (發(T) 发(S); Pinyin: fā). Property with the number 8 may be valued greatly by Chinese. For example, a Hong Kong number plate with the number 8 was sold for $640,000.[3] The opening ceremony of the Summer Olympics in Beijing started at 8 seconds and 8 minutes past 8 pm (local time) on 8 August 2008.[4]"

Posted by: nottimhawko at December 22, 2009 11:32 AM

Does "tenants rights" mean a protected tenant is currently living in the home? And I agree with almost everyone else. This is Richmond not even lower Sea Cliff.

Posted by: Greg Scanlon at December 22, 2009 11:46 AM

Yeah, Sea Cliff has some neighborhood gates. I think they're actually on California:

http://www.sanfranciscodays.com/seacliff/

Ohhh, ok. But they don't close do they??? They would be totally pointless...

I guess if there is a "gate" at 30th and California, that could make California seem like a dividing line... Nonetheless, this place is 2 blocks from El Camino Del Mar and 3 blocks from Sea Cliff Ave...

Not that it means much to me, just making observations...

Posted by: J at December 22, 2009 11:52 AM

What is the technical border between Seacliff and the Richmond?

According to the San Francisco Association of Realtors, it's technically California between 27th and 32nd: San Francisco Real Estate Districts: Maps And Neighborhoods.

But this house is on the wrong side of the street (see link or map added above).

Posted by: SocketSite at December 22, 2009 12:00 PM

So according to SFAR, Bikram Yoga Sea Cliff isn't in Sea Cliff? Hmmm. The link that anonn sent suggests that 22nd and California could be a corner.

Posted by: anon at December 22, 2009 12:07 PM

"Does "tenants rights" mean a protected tenant is currently living in the home?."

No, it just means there's a tenant there. Not necessarily protected.

Posted by: R at December 22, 2009 12:14 PM

I don't think when you enter a listing on MLS you list the district. I think it takes it off the address. It's listed as seacliff (1F). When I look at the map, it looks like California is the dividing line is back from the street. BUT.. does it really matter? California St. looks like Richmond on both sides of the street here.

Posted by: Ryan at December 22, 2009 12:15 PM

If it was in L.A. County it would be referred to as "Sea Cliff Adjacent", or "Sea Cliff P.O.".

Posted by: deshard at December 22, 2009 2:49 PM

OK, non-natives, I've been trying but I just can't let this go. Richmond is a town across the bay, THE Richmond is a San Francisco neighborhood.

Sorry to be so pedantic (really! I tried not to resist I haven't the willpower), but it's like nails on a blackboard for locals. Kind of like "the 101" vs "101," in which case the proper usage has no "the".

Posted by: Scooter at December 22, 2009 2:53 PM

Are you the type of native who thinks "Frisco" is OK to say? Or do you find it repellant?

Posted by: anonn at December 22, 2009 2:55 PM

^^^
Argh. I tried TO resist. But apparently I am an idiot today.

Posted by: Scooter at December 22, 2009 2:55 PM

Not a fan of Frisco, anonn, but it doesn't give me hives. More the mark of a tourist than anything, I'd say.

Posted by: Scooter at December 22, 2009 2:57 PM

Or a Harley Rider. The local chapter of the Hell's Angels is the Frisco Chapter.

Posted by: NoeValleyJim at December 22, 2009 3:00 PM

Plenty of natives say it, they just aren't white. Herb Caen made all the white folks find it gauche.

Posted by: anonn at December 22, 2009 3:05 PM

You tell 'em Scooter.

ps. No native says Frisco. Natives abhore it. Including this one (born back when it was French Campus and still live in the Richmond).

Posted by: Ian at December 22, 2009 3:17 PM

I grew up a block away from here on the other side of California St, so I know the neighborhood well. With the exception of some of the corner homes on the north side of the street, California St is definitely the Richmond, regardless of what the SFAR says.

People love to bash the Richmond, but it's actually a very livable neighborhood, as long as one doesn't mind the gloomy weather and doesn't have to commute down to the peninsula and beyond.

The nearby open space is some of the best in the city, imo (Lincoln Park, Lands End, China Beach, The Presidio,...). And while not destination worthy, nearby Clement and Geary Streets offer many shops and services that serve the neighborhood pedestrians quite well. And finally, downtown commutes are a breeze thanks to 3 different bus routes, including express lines during rush hour.

Oh, and Frisco is a town in Texas.

Posted by: joh at December 22, 2009 3:31 PM

"Kind of like 'the 101' vs '101,' in which case the proper usage has no 'the'."

Proper usage? Sorry but there is no proper usage, just a regional difference in California about people refer to the freeways (or should I saw how people refer to freeways, which is proper?).

I believe it really comes down to the fact that in southern california the freeways have names that people actually use (or at least used to use) such as the Santa Monica Freeway, the San Diego Freeway, the Hollywood Freeway, the Harbor Freeway, the Pasadena Freeway, the Golden State Freeway, etc. Also Highway 1 is usually called PCH not 1, the 1 or Highway.

But numbers have replaced the old freeway names and the "the" is just a holdover from the old names. So now instead of saying "the Harbor Freeway" to refer to the southern section of I-110 they say "the 110".

As someone that has lived half his life in both locals, I refer to the freeways by the name the locals call them, so I would never say "the 80" just as I would never say just "110". And someone in the middle of the state "the 5" and "the 101" turn into "5" and "101". :)

Posted by: Rillion at December 22, 2009 3:41 PM

"ps. No native says Frisco. Natives abhore it. Including this one (born back when it was French Campus and still live in the Richmond)."

Just about any young person in SF (under 30) in the South and East neighborhoods uses Frisco with no irony.

Posted by: Zig at December 22, 2009 3:42 PM

argh, again we need to be able to edit our posts...

someone in the last sentance should be somewhere.

Posted by: Rillion at December 22, 2009 3:46 PM

Anonn and Zig are right on this one. Ian just doesn't get out of the Richmond much, and that's why he thinks the way we do things here are the way they're done. Who can blame him, it's lovely here.

Also, Rillion's explanation of "the" freeways is exactly on point.

Posted by: kthnxybe at December 22, 2009 3:51 PM

Rillion, you are exactly right on the freeway geographical divide, though even when we used to use freeway names here, which included "the" -- the Bayshore (101), the Nimitz (formerly 17, now 880), the Eastshore (80 north of the Bay Bridge) -- when we used numbers, we didn't include a "the". Odd local quirk, I suppose. In college it was the easiest way to tell quickly who was from Southern California and who was from Northern.

As for proper usage, I meant it in the local context, not grammatical, but I am clearly just expressing myself poorly today. More eggnog, anyone?

Posted by: Scooter at December 22, 2009 4:50 PM

"The" Richmond it is.

nottimhawko, thanks for the background. That was my idea behind the 181,818.18 price. 18 sounds like "is going to prosper".

In general I think you're better off leaving your beliefs at the door when doing business. Your beliefs are a weakness in the hands of a salesman.

Look at 888 7th (on King street), 888 Minnesota, 88 Townsend (on 2nd Street) or 88 King. They were numbered for the purpose of attracting Asian buyers.

Then again, this will create hidden opportunities: less competition for 444 Laurel!

Posted by: agreed at December 22, 2009 4:56 PM

The younger generations have totally ingrained the word "Frisco" into thier vocabulary. I don't think it's so bad. Times change, and I don't feel it should have a stigma attached to it whatsoever. Any Bay Area rap song released within the past 5 years should give an indication. Yes, it's ghetto - but it's here to stay.

Posted by: Frisco Frisco USA at December 22, 2009 5:43 PM

for old time coasties it's always been The Coast Highway, never PCH.
The Richmond
The River (Russian in the North, Colorado in the South)
The Lake (Tahoe)
The City (SF)

Posted by: buzzyzpop at December 22, 2009 5:48 PM

@ scooter 4:50pm

I remember being at a 10 kegger at UCSB where someone started singing the Pete Ellis Dodge theme song. We said "1095 West El Camino Real Sunnyvale." All the deep south folks said "Long Beach Freeway, Firestone Exit Southgate." Anyone over forty from California will answer that like Pavlov's dog and reveal where they are from.

Posted by: jtothed at December 22, 2009 7:25 PM

The stretch of Hwy 1 from Santa Monica to Oxnard is indeed known as PCH.

In LA, using freeway names still has utility, because the highway numbers don't always follow the names. The northwestern half of the Hollywood Fwy is the 170, while the southeastern half is the 101. The western half of the Ventura Fwy is the 101, while the eastern half is the 134.

Having split my life between LA and SF, I use "the" to refer to a freeway in Southern California, but omit the "the" when referring to a freeway up here. When in Rome (or Baghdad by the Bay)...

Posted by: Dan at December 22, 2009 8:01 PM

Personally I think the SFAR should just rename the whole Richmond district to Seacliff. That way home values in a good portion of the city will instantly increase. :)

Posted by: StockBoySF at December 22, 2009 8:24 PM

Saw this house in 2008 when it was up for rent: kitchen/family room right off the front door with 2 small bedrooms at the back. Downstairs unwarranted inlaw that extended into former garage space. Concrete backyard. The $4K + rental price tag seemed a tad high at the time....
Prospective landlord at the time mentioned that the group of houses on the block were of historical significance ( this house and adjacent ones used to house Presidio officers ?) and facades could not be changed.

Definitely "The Richmond"--rented a comparable sq ft place for much less nearby --Lincoln Park seems to block some of the fog in the high 20s avenues here.

Posted by: anono-ms. at December 22, 2009 10:48 PM

I know it's fun to bash SFAR, but they have it correct in this case. California is the dividing line right there. There is a "gate" at 28th as well.

[Editor’s Note: With respect to 6521 California, unfortunately that gate is on the other side of the street.]

Posted by: sparky-b at December 23, 2009 8:37 AM

Any Bay Area rap song released within the past 5 years should give an indication.

Any SF rapper in the last 15 years has been saying "Frisco."

Posted by: anonn at December 23, 2009 9:27 AM

[Editor’s Note: With respect to 6521 California, unfortunately that gate is on the other side of the street.]

Agreed. But as I said, the line is drawn down California street, which is correct. One side is Sea Cliff, on side is the Richmond.

I lived on this block as well. Funny that so many SS-ers lived right here or had friends that did.

Posted by: sparky-b at December 23, 2009 9:37 AM

"Any SF rapper in the last 15 years has been saying "Frisco.""

I beleive we have evidence of "frisco" being uttered in a rap song from 1994 here. This was when there were still black people in SF. Of course 4-tay wasn't from "real" San Francisco.

Judge for yourselves


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTgXuzvfcJc&feature=PlayList&p=D99981B43374021F&index=4

Posted by: Zig at December 23, 2009 10:27 AM

time to wikipedia, people. "frisco" and "the [freeway]" are documented as shibboleths, as well as the pronunciation of "nevada."

Posted by: EH at December 23, 2009 1:06 PM

[i]Just about any young person in SF (under 30) in the South and East neighborhoods uses Frisco with no irony. [/i]

As everyone around here knows, there are no native San Franciscans under the age of 30.

Posted by: joh at December 23, 2009 2:04 PM

I lived in a couple of different high-rises in Vancouver last year. The one built in the early 90s didn't have a 13th floor. The other, built with Hong Kong money circa 2000, didn't have a 4th floor, was the only property on that block, and had an address that ended in 88.

Posted by: joh at December 23, 2009 2:08 PM

Uh.... if the "gates" on California were actually gates and were closed, all the houses ON California would be outside Sea Cliff.

Posted by: BobN at December 23, 2009 10:57 PM

BobN,

the houses inside the gates with their side facing California would be in Sea Cliff, and that's how it is. North of California here have addresses in Sea Cliff.

Posted by: sparky-b at December 24, 2009 6:32 PM

Hey, does anyone know how you can obtain a hard copy of the real estate districts map. Do you have to be an agent/ realtor? It seems like you can never get a straight answer from an agent - even a friend wont give up their source. What gives?

Posted by: EsEf Gerard at December 29, 2009 2:16 PM

How about them apples?

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Francisco/66-Sea-Cliff-Ave-94121/home/604530

[Editor's Note: Comments with respect to 66 Sea Cliff Avenue have been moved to: What’s The Story Morning Glory For 66 Sea Cliff Avenue? Cheers.]

Posted by: anon at January 14, 2010 2:32 PM

The list price for 6521 California has just been reduced to $639,900. Once again, purchased for $938,888 in August 2004.

Posted by: SocketSite at May 26, 2010 4:56 PM

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