You’ve seen the HOK design for a tower at 535 Mission, construction of which was suspended soon after the lot was cleared (now surrounded by a chain link fence).
And while it’s an academic exercise, a rather polite reader wonders what the neighborhood really needs on the site.
Hi, my name is Alec and I am an architecture major from North Dakota State University. My team and I are currently designing a project on [the 535 Mission] site for our fourth year High Rise Design Project.
I have a question for the numerous people who frequent this area. What social functions (cultural, commercial, dining, entertainment, residential, etc. etc) would you like to see incorporated into the area? What is missing and what needs to be improved on?
Any responses would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
We know you have some opinions and insight, let’s use them for some good.
∙ Approved For Residential, But Building Commercial (535 Mission) [SocketSite]
∙ 535 Mission Street: From Office To Residential To Office To Suspended [SocketSite]
∙ 535 Mission Update: Parking Lot Closed And About To Break Ground? [SocketSite]
that lot definitely needs a retail or restaurant tenant. there is a lot of foot traffic, but i tend to prefer the other side of the street.
walking down from the transbay terminal, this empty lot is like the capstone of a depressing city block: a run down ATM, parking entrance, depressing asian snack shop. however, on the other side of the alley the rest of the block consists of the salt house (bustling trendy restaurant) and posh new office towers. a busy tenant of some sort would really make it more lively and less dreary, and would be a nicer transition from the transbay, instead of this dead zone to be avoided now.
Alec,
That block is dead after 6pm on weekdays and especially dead on weekends, save for a few restaurants/night clubs a few blocks down. You need something really big to draw people down that way, or have something available for the workers/students from GGU during the day…probably a food court or some restaurants. I’m not sure that block has any “cultural”, or “entertaining” significance…it’s just where all the bankers work =/
@soma
The Tea Garden isn’t bad…the food is quite good…it’s only depressing because it’s open at the weirdest hours
I think it could use an upscale grocery store at the ground level. The area has experienced significantly more residents over the past few years with multiple condo developments. However, the nearest major grocery store is about a mile in any direction. This would greatly benefit the area.
I hear Don Fisher needs a spot to house some art … if SFMOMA can’t make the room, maybe the bottom few floors here with offices above? Granted, it is a bit west of the Yerba Buena arts district … but still close to the central hub of the Bay Area’s multi-modal transit systems (Transbay, BART, ferry boats).
How about a bicycle parking set up with showers and lockers – though I’m encouraging that more on the NE corner of Howard and 2nd Street.
I’m not sure a grocery would work too well here … seems like Folsom Street on one of the redevelopment agency blocks would be a more central location for a grocery.
Although there’s talk of setting up an amphitheatre in the City Park of the Transbay Transit Center with seating for 2,500 or so, maybe a new Fox Theatre like spot? the Rincon Hill neighborhood has the transit access, but there’s no real destinations other than the Ferry Building on Saturday mornings for the farmers market in the area when office workers go home in the weekday evenings or anytime on the weekends.
Incorporate an outdoor movie theater or video art installation that could be viewed from the adjacent rooftop park to the east. Close the alley due west and open a ground floor cafe (Ritual, Farm:Table, Fourbarrel, etc) with late hours, outdoor seating, a small stage, and adorn it with unique lighting and foliage.
Or just put up another homeless shelter. That’s what’ll be there soon anyway.
What about going low to mid-rise on the site? A relatable structure with lots of green space around it.
I was talking with neighborhood group folks recently – all of us unhappy with the high-rises once planned for the area and this block itself -and some suggested new initiative campaigns to downzone a lot of this area. And maybe to stop the Planning Department from extending expiring permits for high-rises as they’ve done in a couple of cases.
That would force the issue.
In any case I’d like to see a low to mid-rise proposal for the block.
Perhaps an open green, fresh grass available for everyone finding the need to “poo and pee”, then supply those holders for poop baggies like in the doggy parks. That way folks don’t need to go right in front of my SOMA door step. Alternatively we can have a one car parking lot for Chris “I-80” Daly when he drives down from Fairfield so he always has a parking space in the City.
@Gil Neighborhood groups living in a high-rise neighborhood unhappy with high-rises? How does that work?
Create a green space, garden park. Ban dogs. Police for transients.
Translation of Gil’s post:
I was talking with a group of residents with views that are soon to be blocked by the proposed highrises, and we think what is best for the area is…blah blah blah…expiring permits shouldn’t be renewed…blah blah blah…downzone…etc.
That’s it, Gil. If the city won’t listen to you, put it in some kid’s school project! That should help your cause!
Basketball Courts!!!
I used to work across the street – i think an outdoor cafe/after work drinks spot would be perfect. Something with a lot of outdoor seating – i think it could be accomplished with temporary structures and landscaping
Like most of what gets built in SF, it should be over-sized and out of scale with its neighbors, take no account of its environs, consist of empty office space and over-priced vacant 1BR condos, and provide no human services. A complete waste of space and a drain on the tax rolls. Whatta city!
“@Gil Neighborhood groups living in a high-rise neighborhood unhappy with high-rises? How does that work?”
For the record, I live West of Twin Peaks and so do the folks I was talking with.
“Like most of what gets built in SF, it should be over-sized and out of scale with its neighbors, take no account of its environs, consist of empty office space and over-priced vacant 1BR condos, and provide no human services. A complete waste of space and a drain on the tax rolls. Whatta city!”
I agree. This is what the neighborhood group folks and I were talking about.
TPTB are trying to pull this in the Van ness/Market area. Massively tall buildings out of scale and windswept, uninviting streetscapes.
Thankfully the downturn has put a hold on plans to Manhattanize the Van Ness/Market area.
But to really stop this for good a new neighborhood effort to downzone SOMA, Market/Van Ness and other areas is what is needed.
Gil – so you were talking with a bunch of neighbors who live west of Twin Peaks about a neighborhood different from yours that’s clear across town?
I’m speechless. Some people in this town are unbelievable.
Alec,
Thanks for the question. You’re getting a taste of how contentious development and architecture is in urban environments with some of these responses.
Regarding the neighborhood, it really shuts down after commute hours though that will change with the new Transbay Terminal if and when it ever gets built. People do tend to go to this neighborhood in the evening for good food and there are some nice restaurants but they aren’t really close together. I would suggest a mixed use project with an office and/or apartment/condo componet with a restaurant or 3 on the ground or lower floors. Also look at incorporating an automated parking system due to the small site. http://www.salthousesf.com/
One of my favorites restaurants is right across the alley from your site.
http://www.salthousesf.com/
Good drinks, food, fun and hip atmosphere. Restaurants like to be near each other. Look at Belden Lane in San Francisco as reference.
Good luck and have fun.
I wonder if Twin Peaks would be nearly as exciting of a view without all of those skyscrapers? I highly doubt it. Maybe someone who is looking for a home in the hills with a view of low rise buildings should consider San Jose or Hayward if you enjoy the bay.
How about the San Fricago Spire…
http://www.thechicagospire.com/
I cannot believe they can even afford the monthly fees to keep the Chicago Spire website active! That project is dead. If you go to Chicago it is just a large hole in the ground.
I work around the corner. Every huge tower going up results in the demo of numerous small buildings. Small buildings have interesting lunch options, big buidings have swanky expensive stuff and starbucks. Anything to inrease lunch option diversity in a small area would be great. For example 2nd street between Market and Howard has a cluster of small buildings with small restaurant tenants. Similar for Front between California and Sacramento. Instead of another useless sculpture garden with no food like 555 mission, perhaps there could be 3-4 outdoor stalls for farmer’s market type tenants – guaranteed that would attract a crowd. Your lunch radius in downtown SF is about 3 blocks so from that point the ferry building is too far and the crocker galleria farmer’s market is too far. Another concern – mind the sunshine and the wind. Outdoor seating without good sun exposure is not useful that often in san francisco. Finding ways to protect people from wind instead of funneling wind between towers would make any outdoor space more valuable.
Ian – I was thinking the same thing. We need more variety (read: not high-end) in our lunch options around here. There are some, but we can definitely use more options between say Subway and Salt House.
Basically, to answer the original question, I don’t have anything specific to recommend. Just gear it toward the 9-5 work crowd and GGU. Those are the groups that frequent this area.
As others have pointed out, simple outdoor greenspace isn’t going to work due to sun (lack of) and wind (excess of).
Build an open-air roofed arcade-type market structure, and let small retailers and food vendors populate it. I’d love to see something like the San Lorenzo market (Firenze) or Ben Thanh Market (Saigon). We already have some street food happening in SF (in spite of our local government), so let’s encourage it.
Problems to solve:
how does one do an open-sided structure without allowing the wind to howl through? (maybe have to do walls on the upwind side(s)).
needs to be closed up when not open for business.
A municipal swimming pool would be nice…
Alec, I think if you pick up on two themes previous posters brought up, not only would you ace your project, but you’d be doing better than a lot of architectural firms that actually end up building here…
1) Address the SF weather (sun, wind, chill, fog). Really understand the behavior of this site and its nano climate. The weather in SF can be dramatically different (+- 10/15 degrees F) from block to block). There are interesting architectural and design options to address this and make it an inviting refuge year-round, versus a cold, windy, desolate place like so many of the thoughtless “public spaces” in this town. And don’t settle for the glass-enclosed courtyard with the lame coffee stand that closes to the public at 5PM. We have a lot of those already.
2) Design to encourage many small diverse retail options, versus some single large boring corporate option. SF’s identity is about individualism and we detest uniform, bland, corporate retail offerings that have bulldozed the rest of the country. Think about how to create space that actively discourages tenants like Starbucks, and encourages a small local dessert bakery or artisan coffee house.
And I can’t not comment on the perpetual “high rise” versus “low rise” circus, God help me…
I find it hilarious that “high-rise = bad” and “low-rise = good” is repeated so often like a mantra. This assumption is ridiculous on its face. “Downzoning” as a tool is identically flawed since it’s a tool that changes heights, not neighborhood quality. Only people who labor under the completely invalid assumption that height is correlated with neighborhood quality can seriously treat “downzoning” as anything worth talking about.
And like BayAreaBum and Fishchum, I’m absolutely flabbergasted that a “west of Twin Peaks” resident feels they need to be actively involved in reconstructing a neighborhood that is so different from their Nixon-era suburban tracts with postage stamp lawns that it might as well be on Mars.
Maybe we should have all the straight young single Marina fraternity and sorority types redesign the Castro? Or a coalition of South Bay commuters that crash in SOMA condos on weekdays work on “upzoning” Twin Peaks? Or a selection of Chinese Tongs determine how to bulldoze and rebuilt Hunter’s Point — or at least demand that an architecture student’s football stadium project should not be a football stadium project at all, but should be a study of options for a low-rise Pearl Tea market?
This site never ceases to amaze and entertain me.
mini golf is a need, but it could also work well as a down-zoned rooftop mini golf course.
Perhaps an open green, fresh grass available for everyone finding the need to “poo and pee”, then supply those holders for poop baggies like in the doggy parks. That way folks don’t need to go right in front of my SOMA door step. Alternatively we can have a one car parking lot for Chris “I-80” Daly when he drives down from Fairfield so he always has a parking space in the City.
sparky-b, I remember being downtown around Kate O’briens and went past a building in a taxi and I saw a mini golf course indoors at street level. Either I was really drunk, or it was just a temporary set-up and it’s gone now. Looked like a lot of fun, though. I also recall seeing some liquor brand as a sponsor.
The creation of a sweet mini-golf course in the city is on my to do list. Maybe I should talk to the Metreon.
A nicely designed public urinal would be a good addition to that block.
Upscale grocery store with good takeout options and maybe a place to eat. Yes, public restrooms would be a very good idea.
First, get rid of all the hobos.
I agree that the retail spaces at the bottom of the high-rises need to be shrunk down … many small shops instead of one big Roy’s or Gordon Biersch. 2nd Street is a great example … and I believe 3 new restaurants are opening in the near future on 2nd.
Pee and Putt at the Metreon! Brilliant!
Socket Site gets a 10% cut!
I’m so glad it’s getting to be the time of year when I abandon the bitter queens who inhabit San Francisco and can’t even try to help a kid with his college project without sarcasm and rancor.
The lot is properly and appropriately zoned for a highrise but it needs street-level retail. A night time entertainment venue would help the area but fitting it into the footprint and uses for the rest of the building will be problematic. Don’t forget that it is adjacent to what will be the TransBay Terminal so perhaps something related to that? Frankly, it could even be a good spot for a hotel since it’s right next to what may become the terminus of the high speed rail line.
Thank you to everyone who has taken interest in this subject! The amount of responses we’ve received went well above and beyond anything we expected. Your input is greatly important to us and will play a direct roll in the project. We hope to continue to hear more of your opinions and insight on the topic. Thanks again.
Alec J.
NDSU Architecture
Fishchum,
That indoor mini-golf course was put on by Glenfiddich a few years ago when the corner retail space now occupied by New Resource Bank was vacant at 405 Howard. It was actually a great concept. Try out some scotch, putt around a bit while drinking scotch, repeat!
As far as Gil goes, let’s state the obvious – our population is only increasing. I’d rather go up than out. I’d rather keep the green sites we now have in the suburbs rather than sprawling out, thank you.
hotel. we can always use more hotel rooms.
Soma – Thanks you!!! My wife was convinced that I’d been dreaming when I woke up and asked out loud “Did I really drive by a scotch-sponsored indoor mini-golf course in downtown SF last night?”