May 13, 2009
Drawings And Details For The Proposed Development Of 2001 Market
The website for 2001 Market Street has filled out with drawings and details for a proposed mixed-use development to replace the shuttered S&C Ford dealership on Market at Dolores and 14th. As proposed, 80 condos (50% two-bedrooms or more) over a 30,000 square foot Whole Foods Market with outdoor seating at the corner of Market and Dolores.
Conditional use permits will be required for demolition of the existing buildings, for the grocery (over 5,000 square feet and a chain), and for a parking ratio of .75 spaces per unit. No variances are required, however, for the 85 foot height along Market/Dolores to 100 feet north of the 14th Street property line at which point the height drops to 40.
With approvals, and without delays, construction could start as early as fall 2010 with a Whole Foods opening in early 2012 and the condos soon thereafter (mid to late 2012).
∙ 2001 Market Street [2001marketsf.com]
∙ Whole Foods Green-Lighted In Noe (And As Proposed On Market) [SocketSite]
First Published: May 13, 2009 5:00 PM
Comments from "Plugged In" Readers
I hope this project goes forward, although in this market it is hard to expect much.
However, I just wanted to note that the project website is fantastic. I applaud the development team for creating a site that clearly communicates the project, the schedule, opportunities for community input, etc.
Note, the pic on SS is from Dolores/14th looking towards Market.
Posted by: curmudgeon at May 13, 2009 5:37 PM
i like the project but would have preferred that it be a few floors higher
Posted by: spencer at May 13, 2009 5:48 PM
Agreed, spencer. The problem with Upper Market is that it isn't nearly as wind-blown as Lower Market (Van Ness east), where the tall buildings help create a Venturi effect, making a casual stroll a walk on the wild side. Up, up, up, I say, steel and glass forever, neighborhood scale be damned!
Posted by: two beers at May 13, 2009 5:57 PM
What about the financial district? No Venturi effect there. And the buildings are twice as tall as Market/ Van Ness.
Thou shalt Think before thy speak.
Posted by: sf at May 13, 2009 6:10 PM
Trucks delivering produce to Whole Foods will unload along Dolores? It could be worse, but store operations will project quite a bit of noise at the new units and around that area. A loading bay would take up precious space, but might be a better way to manage deliveries.
It is still a huge improvement as proposed. The light wells and green roofs look especially good.
Posted by: Mole Man at May 13, 2009 7:47 PM
The FiDi is more than a mile down and the wind often has had the time to dissipate. Sometimes you get the big wind in the Fidi but much less often than up Market.
The best way to experience the wind tunnel effect is to cycle up Market. You've got a couple of critical areas like around Fox Plaza or Van Ness where you're either getting the wind full force ahead or big gusts come from the North. Do that between 4:30 and 6PM most summer for maximum effect. The wind will be mild mid-block and then it'll throw you into traffic at the crossings until the next concrete wall.
Posted by: San FronziScheme at May 13, 2009 9:04 PM
Wind effects are a part of any EIR now. Because of Fox Plaza. They would be a part of this building if it were 30 stories high or in its current version.
Posted by: anon at May 13, 2009 9:09 PM
@Mole Man The presentations I've seen have the commercial entrance for the Whole Foods deliveries along 14th St and will be in an off-street loading dock underneath the residential units there. Not that it on being on 14th won't cause some traffic disruptions from the coming and goings, but at least 14th is 2 lanes going west-to-east there. And whether you love it or hate it, I do think the developers have done a good job here in engaging the neighborhood associations (at least DTNA and EVPA).
Posted by: LibertyHillDweller at May 13, 2009 9:13 PM
The green roof is nice but this is really cool:
"Common area landscaping to include vegetable and flower gardens for resident use."
Posted by: Anna at May 13, 2009 9:26 PM
Its a great development proposal for the area, with Whole Foods and the residential component. The design is clearly an attempt to please the local neighborhood groups, preservasiontists etc. More of the same..............bays and stucco. Are we doomed? Why can't we look at what some other cities have done in the US and around the world? Imitating a 100+ years old style is not progressive.
Posted by: sfnerd at May 13, 2009 9:28 PM
If it weren't for Fox Plaza we might actually have cool stuff in this city but everybody's too afraid.
Posted by: sf at May 13, 2009 10:20 PM
This will bring life to a dead corner. Major plus for the neighborhood and it makes total sense to put housing next to the Market Street transit corridor.
Posted by: empnor at May 13, 2009 10:41 PM
“Flow-through” residential units are passively ventilated and maximize solar access for residents
I wonder how they plan on "flow-through" with what appears to be the pretty standard central-hallway plan for the tower.
Posted by: BobN at May 13, 2009 10:49 PM
I hope this actually gets built. The Whole Foods is very controversial and many neighborhood residents question the need for two large supermarkets across the street from each other. There's also concern about the effect that Whole Foods will have on smaller neighborhood markets (e.g. Golden Produce.)
Personally, I'm in favor, but I can understand the sentiments against. The multiple supermarket argument gets even stronger when you add in the fact that Trader Joe's is considering the former Tower Records space down the street.
Posted by: Dave at May 14, 2009 12:31 AM
What's wrong with multiple grocery stores close together? I like choice.
Posted by: anon at May 14, 2009 1:30 AM
Didn't Whole Foods just report a loss? I'll be surprised if this happens. Discount outlets are thriving in this economy -- $9 a pound grapes, not so much.
Posted by: livinintheloin at May 14, 2009 8:13 AM
What's wrong with multiple grocery stores close together? I like choice.
The Market st. Safeway is a block away, and you want this development to have two groceries? Can you see why they might not?
Posted by: anonn at May 14, 2009 8:28 AM
Two grocery stores across the street from each other means choice and price wars! Great ready to save money!
Posted by: Mark at May 14, 2009 9:06 AM
Perfect plan... Whole Foods and Trader Joe's move into the neighborhood and Safeway gives up the ghost. Then we have a big new site to develop as something other than suburban strip mall fronted with a massive parking lot. I look forward to growing old in the neighborhood when most of the gas stations and suburban-era developments are replaced with projects like this. (I mean really, did we need 6 gas stations in area?)
Posted by: area_resident at May 14, 2009 9:23 AM
"The parking will comply with the zoning requirements and will seek a conditional use for the residential parking in order to achieve a ratio of .75 spaces per residential unit."
Does that mean I can only park 3/4 of my car there?
Posted by: jlasf at May 14, 2009 9:31 AM
No jlasf, it means that if you were to actually buy a place there, you would have the choice of also buying a parking spot. Or you might prefer to not own a car, use ZipCar, etc.
Posted by: area_resident at May 14, 2009 9:39 AM
"Give up the ghost"? When is that Safeway and its large parking lot not packed with people? Newsflash, large parking lots are convenient for grocey shopping. Two groceries in the same vicinity as a very busy supermarket is a terrible idea.
Posted by: anonn at May 14, 2009 9:58 AM
Price wars between Trader Joe's and Whole Foods?
I think their prices are set by their corporate headquarters.
Posted by: San FronziScheme at May 14, 2009 10:20 AM
I think Trader Joes, Whole Foods, and regular supermarkets are 3 quite different sub-markets.
They can all coexist nearby... at least I've seen them all coexist close to each other in other cities w/o a problem
besides: let "the market" figure it out. if one of them can't compete, it will close. No harm in letting them TRY to open a store there.
unfortunately for the Safeway haters, I personally doubt that Safeway would close down if Whole Foods/Trader Joes opened nearby, although I'm willing to be proven wrong (by having all three open nearby).
as someone said above... competition=good for the consumer.
Posted by: ex SF-er at May 14, 2009 10:42 AM
Who here has ever seen a WF and a TJs in the same shopping plaza?
No one? No one? Bueller?
OK. Now who here has seen a WF and a TJs in the same shopping plaza, one block from a Safeway?
Please folks. I realize this is the Interwebs and all. But "I like to just say stuff off the top of my head" gets old sometimes, surely.
Posted by: anonn at May 14, 2009 10:46 AM
Who here has ever seen a WF and a TJs in the same shopping plaza? No one? No one? Bueller?
There's a TJs and Whole Paycheck right across the street from each other in San Rafael (TJ is 337 3rd street and WF is 340 3rd street). TJs is much busier than WF at all times. No Safeway right there, though.
Posted by: LMRiM at May 14, 2009 11:00 AM
anonn - you've seriously never seen a Safeway, Whole Foods, and Trader Joe's near one another? Try going out to the burbs sometime. Go up to San Rafael and take the 4th St exit. Turn right. Just down the road you'll find a Whole Foods directly across the street from a Trader Joe's, which is directly across the street from a United Markets (local store about the size of the Marina Safeway).
The difference? The Safeway on Market St is one of Safeway's highest grossing stores anywhere, telling me that maybe, just maybe it's operating somewhere near capacity. Whole Foods and Safeway will both THRIVE at this location. No need to worry about one going under (though it would be nice to get rid of that ridiculous giant parking lot and build something with proper underground parking and street fronting buildings).
What else would you have the developer put here? What would the "community" approve of?
Posted by: anon at May 14, 2009 11:04 AM
1. Good multiuse.
2. Hit the height sweet spot in terms of keeping things on a human scale: 4 - 7 stories.
3. Lively pedestrian zone.
4.Light wells, green roof and open space: now that's how you handle your business...
5. Only .75 parking spots per unit: great; cars are over rated anyway :).
6. Nice facade variation along length of the project...
Posted by: Vancouver Jones at May 14, 2009 11:06 AM
OMG, you mean anonn just tossed out some comment off the top of his head, crowed about it, and then it turns out to have been completely baseless? As I have often pointed out, at least he is predictable.
Posted by: Joe at May 14, 2009 11:11 AM
Really now, Joe, what's your point? It sure looks like "bash anonn, and nothing else to add" -- as usual. It isn't like you offer up any thought.
All these guys offered up was suburbia. My point stands. You're pretty funny man. You love me.
Posted by: anonn at May 14, 2009 11:28 AM
I'd be more worried at a Trader Joe's opening near a Safeway than a Whole Foods. TJ's is very adapted to SF's population: educated folks who actually look at labels. Safeway would lose a big chunk of their revenue right away if only for the price.
With Whole Foods, I don't know. With the Boomer's bubble money vanishing, I don't see how they can still think about expanding. But then again, I am not Whole Foods material. I like my money and it takes a big effort from me to part from it.
Posted by: San FronziScheme at May 14, 2009 11:30 AM
anonn, so you're looking for a San Francisco-only example? Well then, yes you're right, no TJ's, WF's, and another grocery store occupy the same corner. Doesn't it tell you something that the stores WANT to occupy the same corner? (even with Whole Foods putting in a store in the Haight and in Noe, both of which are not that far away).
I currently shop at the TJ's on Masonic, the Safeway on Geary, and the Whole Foods on Franklin. They don't really overlap all that much on things that I view each for. I would love to buy a place within walking distance of all three.
Posted by: anon at May 14, 2009 11:34 AM
Safeway is just fine, you just need to be careful what you're buying and buy when things are on sale. Sale prices can't be beat, that's for sure. Many millionaires I know in Tiburon buy most of their groceries at the Safeway in Corte Madera (a little nicer than the one in Mill Valley), especially the ones who earned the money themselves.
Posted by: LMRiM at May 14, 2009 11:40 AM
This is terrible new for Golden Produce and their new awesome meat market!
Posted by: Mr T at May 14, 2009 11:40 AM
I hear you. I often find Safeway's sale prices similar to TJ's regular prices (they never do sales).
It all depends how much you value your time. Combing through the fliers and rushing 5 times a month to stock up on just discounted groceries is a pretty dull pass time;)
Posted by: San FronziScheme at May 14, 2009 11:54 AM
Thanks for the information about the loading dock. In my experience that becomes the hot button for any kind of grocery store in an urban area.
As far as competition goes, none of these stores have much in common. Safeway is a traditional supermarket that aims for price competition through volume and choice profusion, Whole Foods is a specialty retailer with a strong focus on prepared meals, and Trader Joes is a retail outlier freak that only ever has shelf space for about a third of the items that a traditional supermarkets carry and operates with a wide variety of other nontraditional sources, products, and business practices.
Posted by: Mole Man at May 14, 2009 11:55 AM
Who here has ever seen a WF and a TJs in the same shopping plaza?
I've seen them pretty close to each other (within just a very few blocks) although I can't think of any in the same exact center off the top of my head.
but then again, who would have thought Starbucks would put 3-4 starbucks on the same corner? And I've seen that all over the place.
I have no idea if that micro market in SF can withstand a Whole Foods, TJ's and Safeway all in the same area. but it doesn't matter. I see no reason why we can't let those 3 entities decide for themselves.
Posted by: ex SF-er at May 14, 2009 12:55 PM
Gosh. I really hope I'm alive to see this. I will be if these dates are accurate. This will be such a wonderful addition to the neighborhood without question.
Posted by: Ryan at May 14, 2009 1:21 PM
But, but it will block views of the Mint!
(Sorry, someone had to say it)
Posted by: BobN at May 14, 2009 1:33 PM
I live right near there and I think this looks like a good project. I'd most likely always shop at Golden Produce over Whole Paycheck, and the additional grocery trucks on my 14th St. bike route would be slightly annoying, but of all the things that could get built at that site this looks pretty decent. It's a fantastic neighborhood, especially since you don't have to own a car to get around, and I welcome the additional housing supply.
Posted by: Jane at May 14, 2009 1:38 PM
I wish people would stop whining and harping about bay windows. It doesnt mean we are replicating the past by using them in new construction. They are an important architectural element in many ways; to give additional floor area to living units, to enliven the facade, and to create more views. There are many ways to interpret a bay window in modernist language.
Stucco is not necessarily a bad exterior material; it's cost effective and can add color and texture to a bland facade. A better material would be cement board panels and siding.
I think this is a well designed project and look forward to it coming to this neighborhood.
Posted by: noearch at May 14, 2009 1:41 PM
I wonder what impact this will have on the homeless -- and the resulting smell of pee -- at 14th & Church.
Posted by: Buena Vista resident at May 14, 2009 2:14 PM
In a pretty small area where Potrero borders the Mission and Soma, there is a Safeway, a TJs, a Whole Foods AND a Costco. They all do very well. Each has a pretty distinct clientele (with some overlap, of course). And each has a much smaller number of residents within walking distance than the locales on Market St.
The overwhelming majority of shoppers drive to these four places. The only slight exception is during the workday lunch hour. If one store were to cannibalize another, it would have happened already as a 1/4 mile (btwn TJ's-Costco and Costco-Safeway), a 1/2 mile (btwn Safeway-TJs and Safeway-WF), or a 2/3 mile (btwn TJs-WFs) difference in driving distance and time is virtually negligible once one is already in the car.
If you were to put all four into the same plaza (in the general vicinity of where the stores are now) with the necessary parking, they would all undoubtedly survive if not thrive.
Posted by: nnona at May 14, 2009 3:05 PM
OK, nnona. Fair enough. They are all pretty nearby one another over there. Within four blocks anyway. I totally change my mind. This is an awesome idea. Everyone happy?
Posted by: anonn at May 14, 2009 3:21 PM
The Daly City shopping center at John Daly has a Safeway and a TJ's in the same building. One faces North one faces South. They are both very busy.
Posted by: saprky-b at May 14, 2009 3:35 PM
Posted by: kathleen at May 14, 2009 4:06 PM
A friend worked at that Safeway 7 years ago and at the time management was crowing to employees that their store was the highest grossing Safeway, period, and by a large margin.
My partner works at Whole Foods Franklin and that store is always in the top 5 grossing stores in the company. Only the NYC stores do better.
Golden Produce has thrived next to that Safeway because it's easier to get into and out of than Safeway. They may have to be smarter about their product mix or pricing but it's not a foregone conclusion a store their size is a goner.
This location has the highest density of mass transit outside of downtown. Every single MUNI light rail goes here plus a major cross-town route, the 22, and a neighborhood feeder, the 37. It's also close enough to 16th Street BART to draw commuters from that transit corridor, too.
Whole Foods in particular has been burned by bad choices like Oakland and Fresno (both stores are floundering) and they are completely re-thinking how they open new stores. The Noe Valley store is one of the first to be re-thought. The fact that they are still active in this development means they're confident the location is viable.
Posted by: Eric in SF at May 14, 2009 4:07 PM
^^^I have a friend that works for TJ's in LA, and he tells me that the Masonic location in SF is always flipping spots with the Manhattan stores as the highest grossing TJ's. Inventory turn in that store supposedly is every four days. The new location that just opened in Stonestown by SFSU shattered all kinds of sales records for a new store. If TJ's decides to build a location across from this Safeway and this Whole Foods, my guess is that it will do fine - they're pretty good about scouting locations (not too many fail and close - not sure if any have). SF in general (compared to the rest of the country) is severely under-grocered.
Posted by: anon at May 14, 2009 4:24 PM
Lucky me - I live two blocks from the Safeway. While I'm not a Whole Paycheck kind of gal, I'm sure that overpriced Safeway could use a little competition and it'll be nice to have another option.
I'd really love a TJ's to tighten up the price comeptition, but the DTNA hates the idea of one because of Geary's horrible traffic precedent and already nixed one on Sanchez/Market. Interesting to see if the DTNA opposes a Tower Records locale.
Posted by: LongTimeRenter at May 14, 2009 5:04 PM
I live near here too. The DTNA are not the worst NIMBYs in the city but still pretty bad. I was really pissed off when the TJ on Sanchez was nixed. TJ had a great plan for that spot. So now that lot has a vacant, unfinished Washington Mutual branch! How appropriate (for discussion on this site, anyway).
Posted by: Trip at May 14, 2009 5:16 PM
"Interesting to see if the DTNA opposes a Tower Records locale."
Is TJ's really considering this location or is this just rumor? The same problems with the Sanchez location are going to plague this location as well.
Posted by: 94114 at May 15, 2009 9:02 AM
"Whole Foods in particular has been burned by bad choices like Oakland and Fresno (both stores are floundering) and they are completely re-thinking how they open new stores. "
What's wrong with the Oakland locataion? It seems to be located in an area with enough density in to support the store. This is especially true with the re vitalization of the beautiful Uptown neighborhood.
Everytime I visit the store ther a lots of people walking to the store and the parking lot is full.
Posted by: vancouverJones at May 16, 2009 7:51 AM