November 4, 2008
The Unofficial One Rincon Hill Floor Plan Challenge: Ryan Responds
Reader Ryan responds to our (unofficial) One Rincon Hill penthouse floor plan challenge:
A little tweak…Done very quickly but you get the idea. Also like [another reader] mentioned plumbing fixtures such as toilets are extremely difficult to play with. Sometimes impossible in highrises. Showers and sinks however are a little easier to add as you'll notice by my layout. Also I didn't cheat. No removal of any column or support.
Unfortunately a couple of code issues quickly caught our eye (think exits), but we applaud the effort, never said it would be easy, and thank you for plugging in. Feel free critique. Of course if you think you could do better...
First Published: November 4, 2008 10:30 AM
Comments from "Plugged In" Readers
One Rincon Hill I hear is negotiating big time.
I didn't actually know you could move bathrooms. Wouldn't the HOA try to stop that?
Posted by: jessep at November 4, 2008 11:08 AM
I want to disclose a few things before the heat turns up on me:
1. I am not an architect nor do imply I have any experience in designing floor-plans.
2. I am not a plumber and have no idea how bathrooms work, where they can be placed, etc.
3. I am not a inspector for the city, so I don't know if anything I put in there would be up to code or not.
What I do know is I was looking at the pervious post where SS showed the four floor plans before they were separated. I overlapped that onto the big open one in the program I used, and what I noticed is that the sales offices floor plan had bathrooms in TOTALLY different spots than the 4 separate PH's so maybe there is something I don't know in regards to toilet placement?
I only added one new bathroom and just added on to one of the powder-rooms for the bedrooms.
Maybe a plumbing expert can chime in because I would love to know what you can and cannot do in a high rise!
Posted by: Ryan at November 4, 2008 11:54 AM
Ryan, putting the technical issues (of which I know nothing) aside, your re-design is far superior to the ORH design!
Posted by: Trip at November 4, 2008 12:00 PM
ok, cool Ryan.
but seriously, if you're none of those professions, do tell us..what are you then?
Posted by: noearch at November 4, 2008 12:01 PM
Whoa! what a goofy plan. theatre is across the unit on the other side of the kitchen. put the formal dining where the family room is, the family room where the formal living room is and the formal living room where the dining room was. bedroom 2 should switch places with the home theater. Better living thru the logical way people live.
Posted by: suzyq at November 4, 2008 12:01 PM
it seems the large solid inner core makes it very un-ideal to combine all the units to make one super-unit; it seems like a chore to get from one point to another; with stuff blocking the walkway. 2 or 4 units is more practical.
Posted by: condoshopper at November 4, 2008 12:21 PM
Is that coin-operated laundry? Thanks but no thanks.
Seriously though, I like the creativity. I'll take the unit. Who do I call?
Posted by: Binnings Team at November 4, 2008 12:28 PM
I love the cognitive dissonance of a wine "cellar" that is 600 feet above the street and features a million dollar view. (both Ryan's and the 1RH office design) Couldn't the wine cellar be moved to the inner core ? My viognier doesn't need a view of the Bay Bridge (nor the morning sunlight)
I think architects should reserve the term "cellar" for something that is below ground level. Above that "wine storage" should suffice.
I like Ryan's design better. Regarding moving the plumbing, I've got a hunch that the waste pipes are between the concrete floor and the ceiling of the unit below. So do plumbing repairs/changes mean that the plumbers have to go through your downstairs neighbor's unit ?
Posted by: The Milkshake of Despair at November 4, 2008 12:51 PM
... just noticed that Ryan's design labels the room as simply "WINE" and its only the official 1RH design that designates this as a lofty "cellar"
+1 to Ryan for accuracy
Posted by: The Milkshake of Despair at November 4, 2008 12:55 PM
I like the new design. The only thing I would change is a connecting doorway between the master suite and bedroom 2. Helps reduce the amount of walking required to get to/from the kitchen and family room. Also would be convenient if the owners have a baby and want the baby's room to be close.
Posted by: Jaywards at November 4, 2008 1:03 PM
i think it rocks - well played Ryan. Just find a spot for the pool table "club" room and you're in business.
Posted by: lolcat_94123 at November 4, 2008 1:04 PM
The office needs to be on the other side of the library for best views during work hours.
Regarding practical constraints, there are some important considerations:
* Approaching fifty stories or so it becomes impossible to make use of trivial plumbing designs with one big pipe. In order to avoid problematic high pressures both supply and drain pipes must be buffered somehow. Solving this problem adds to the cost, but also adds flexibility. I have no specific knowledge of the plumbing in ORH.
* Because this is a penthhouse, there is great flexibility in venting the plumbing out the of the roof. That is a bigger factor than most other aspects of plumbing and adds to flexibility.
* At this price level difficult engineering problems can be made to go away.
Posted by: Mole Man at November 4, 2008 1:23 PM
I'd love to see an architect's take on this. I'm looking at you noearch. ;)
Posted by: location at November 4, 2008 1:31 PM
send me a retainer fee and I'll take on the design.
Posted by: noearch at November 4, 2008 1:58 PM
Retainer fee? What does architecture have to do with orthodontia? Waka Waka Waka.
Fair enough, I hate when people ask me to do my job for free too.
Posted by: location at November 4, 2008 2:04 PM
"I hate when people ask me to do my job for free too."
Just be glad you're not in computer technology. Everyone seems to think that all CS types know how to solve any esoteric software problem.
"Don't worry, my niece knows computers and she can figure out how to attach a photo to your spreadsheet". Never mind that the niece in question is working on quantum physics or data mining. Obviously she knows how to move a photo from PhotoPhuckup 4.3 into Apple docs 3.4 running on OSX.
How often are doctors or lawyers asked to fix stuff for free ? Happens all the time to nerds though.
Posted by: The Milkshake of Despair at November 4, 2008 2:38 PM
then, for gods sake: Just say NO.
Posted by: noearch at November 4, 2008 2:43 PM
Ryan - pretty good effort. One issue I noticed is that it's a bit of a hike, through a number of different rooms, to get to the master suite. That said, it's not a bad placement for it, waking up to some amazing sunrises.
In terms of the kitchen, feasibility aside, I think it may be better placed where bedroom 2 is, allowing one to have a huge living/dining area/piano facing the city and Golden Gate bridge. That may also create 'better' access to the master suite. I'd have bedroom 2 where the formal living area now is and switch the library/office with the home theatre, allowing the office to take in water views to the south. Just my 2 cents worth.
Kudos on drawing up some innovative plans nonetheless.
Posted by: Recent ORH buyer at November 4, 2008 2:50 PM
Ryan - you addressed most of the issues that I had with the first plan. Now this is an impressive unit! The other plan was obviously just an effort to squeeze a lot of rooms around an elevator/ stair core.
In your plan all of the bedrooms are ensuite, and the bedroom off the kitchen could easily double as a maid's room (at this price point it is likely one will be employed).
Also, now it is not necessary to pass through the kitchen to get to the dining room. Is there a way to the home theater without walking through the library?
Can't tell from you plan; is there a glass wall between the tub in the master bath and the sitting room? Would be nice to sit in the tub and still enjoy the view. Can't figure out how to get that feature from the shower.
Great work Ryan!
Posted by: TCatch at November 4, 2008 3:31 PM
1. Cellar or not, the "WINE" room should not have windows.
2. The left is north, right? The theater should not have windows, and in case the windows are not avoidable, it should be on the north or east side. No matter what kind of window treatment you have, the south lighting will mean you won't watch TV during the day.
3. For the kids who watched a little bit TV, to get back to his/her room (BR2), he has to go around the whole unit? Pretty back arrangement.
4. In general, I do not like bedrooms on the east side, because the morning sun would come in when I want to sleep in.
5. In general, all bedrooms should be grouped together, so the parents can be close to the kids. The exception is the guest bedroom. This plan has only 3 bedrooms, I say they should be together.
6. It needs a maid's room.
Posted by: John at November 4, 2008 9:56 PM
How often are doctors or lawyers asked to fix stuff for free ? Happens all the time to nerds though.
Ha! I get asked to do free stuff every day 50x a day. Neighbors, friends, you name it. even worse: you have to do stuff for free WHILE AT WORK!
I would guess that 10-20% of my day is spent on "free" things at work. and i get medical questions about 2x per day almost every day
I can't count how many times people will come for an issue (like their asthma) and then do an "oh by the way" and talk about a completely different person!
-neighbor calls me. "Hey my kid just hit his head, do you think we need to go in?"
-other neighbor. "I have sinus infections all the time but no insurance, would you mind just prescribing me some XXX to clear it up"
-or "Hey, can you get me Viagra!"
-or "my doctor did this to me, was that right? what should I do next? what are the side effects of this medicine? what else could tehy have done?"
"patient x called and wants to talk about autism and vaccines" (phone calls are free for you right? it's because we don't charge for them.)
"can you fill out these 1000 forms for me so that I can get social security or Workman's comp". (free again)
or what is typical:
family comes in and they're all ill. ONE of them is on my schedule. they say "hey, can you just look in my other kid's ears quick while we're here?" (again, free).
"we're here for a physical, but I brought in 500 things to talk about that aren't part of a physical like I hurt my ankle 10 years ago and I think I might have allergies and have questions about toxic mold and so on" (you may not know this, but when I do a physical PLUS something else it is pretty much near-free.)
long story short: just do the darn work noearch!!!! I promise that I at least will not steal your design and charge someone $100k for it
Posted by: ex SF-er at November 5, 2008 8:40 AM
"How often are doctors or lawyers asked to fix stuff for free ? Happens all the time to nerds though."
Yep, I'm also asked to (and do) dispense free legal advice a couple times a week. Clients call with "a quick question" on a matter we're not handling, so it gets unbilled. Friends, neighbors, family have a question about landlord/tenant issues, DBI and Planning Commission problems, doctor botched a procedure and I need to know whether I should sue (that's just a fun jab at ex SF-er, but I do get that question about twice a year). I actually love getting a chance to show off (but always give loads of caveats as the rules are very strict against lawyers regarding the formation of an attorney-client relationship).
Posted by: Trip at November 5, 2008 10:23 AM
Needless to say, when the fire broke out the 200 yard dash from the master to the fire stair would be exciting. All kidding aside, the awkwardness of the original plan is largely due to the need maintain exit access.
Posted by: RUN! at November 5, 2008 2:06 PM
no disrespect to Ryan, but this is an amateur approach to a very complex problem. Code issues and exiting is a big concern. needs to be addressed.
and, no. I'm not going to attempt to design a floor plan. There is no real client, no real program and no real information as to structural columns, mechanical columns and plumbing and electrical limitations. I wouldn't pretend for a minute that this full floor would be used for a typical family, parents and couple of kids. doesnt make sense. so the traditional layout is a non issue.
Ryans plan is good for fun and comment.
Posted by: noearch at November 5, 2008 5:14 PM
Darn... I thought my peer pressure would work... oh well. there goes my early retirement plan!
Posted by: ex SF-er at November 6, 2008 5:48 AM
will you guys quit asking no arc for free advice?
its fine for professionals like md's and jd's but not for something as precious as floorplan musings from an architect.
don't you know how busy and important architects are???
Posted by: paco at November 6, 2008 7:12 AM
Frankly, if you're paying $14 million for a penthouse and locating the plumbing's a problem, buy the next floor down, too, and run hoses.
But more seriously, why can't the elevator lobby and those hallways be part of the home? No one else is sharing the core at this level.
Posted by: BobN at November 6, 2008 11:29 PM