October 31, 2008
We’ll Give You The Jump Once Again: 3119 Harrison On The Market
As we wrote ten months ago:
Okay, we’re giving you the big jump on this one (as in “[c]onstruction is due to start by Spring 2008…[and] both houses will go on the market as the project gets closer to completion”). From the developers behind 1438-1446 Jackson Street comes 3119 Harrison, two contemporary [3,000] square foot homes on a currently (relatively) empty lot…Rough plans (and a few more renderings) available online. Details in a year (assuming it gets built).
And as we write today with the scoop: They're now on the market (but not yet done). Each home will sport four bedrooms, three bathrooms, and three parking spaces with studio space underneath. Asking $2,700,000 each with occupancy expected in May (2009).
And if you were lucky enough to see 1440 Jackson (the kitchen from #2 pictured above), expect similar high-end modern finishes (Bulthaup, WET, Bonelli, etc.) throughout.
∙ Coming (Not So) Soon To An Empty Lot (3119 Harrison) Next Year [SocketSite]
Coming Soon Three Quarters In Contract: 1440 Jackson Street [SocketSite]
∙ Dawson&Clinton General Contractors [dawson-clinton.com]
First Published: October 31, 2008 3:00 PM
Comments from "Plugged In" Readers
Sure the Castro can't support $900 a foot, but Bernal can no problem.
[Editor's Note: The reference: The Almost Infamous 76 Caselli Closes Escrow For $679 Per Square (but two very different products).]
Posted by: sparky-the-bear at October 31, 2008 3:35 PM
not to mention it's half a block from Cesar Chavez
Posted by: anon at October 31, 2008 3:48 PM
If it doesn't sell, they'll just rent them out for $14,062.50 a month.
Posted by: Jimmy (Bitter Renter) at October 31, 2008 3:51 PM
Ha ha Ha! I am loving the rents today... calculated to the penny.
Posted by: chuckie at October 31, 2008 3:58 PM
Sure it will be a nice place, sure there was a lot of effort in the design and sure no expenses will be spared in the construction.
But in this location? Come one!
The bubble bursts and it starts with these "up and coming" areas (meaning "I will have to settle for less but I am still happy I am overpaying like the big guys").
I'll venture into a final price: 1.3M each? 450/sf is what I'd pay for this area. And even more than a Million bucks would be a stretch to live below the shopping cart line.
Posted by: San FronziScheme at October 31, 2008 4:09 PM
Will sell for less than the Craig Steely house on Mullen, IMHO.
Posted by: wayne at October 31, 2008 4:41 PM
How much longer until the trend of kitchens looking like a science research lab is passe? The use of the wood is interesting however.
As for the price (!), it seems that the part of the city with the most insane prices is Bernal-Noe-Potrero, STILL. I guess I am an "old-timer", but I still don't get paying Beverly Hills prices to live in what were working class neighborhoods.
I can see why the Marais in Paris went from working class to what it is today (a great desirable neighborhood), the location, architecture, and proximity to the best shops, museums and restaurants in Paris made it worth moving to. Where is the great architecture, museums and urban magnificence of Bernal Eureka or even Noe Valley?
Posted by: anonconfused at October 31, 2008 5:00 PM
I'm using this contractor, Dawson-Clinton for my roof-deck hot-tub, landscaping, and kitchen.
Does anyone have any good/bad experience with their work?
Posted by: jessep at October 31, 2008 5:53 PM
I'll admit, I'm a transplant and while I know my way around town I'm no where near as well versed about the neighborhoods and streets as most on this site, I'm sure. Still, when a beautiful property comes up and the consensus is "really!? x.x million for that 'hood!?" I'm often thinking to myself "if I had x.x I'd take it!"
This would be the first time ever I've thought "really!? 2.7 million for that 'hood!?" Am I becoming one of you, or this place just that far off the mark?
Posted by: anon at October 31, 2008 7:14 PM
do you people have any idea how bad that neighborhood is?
It's right off Cesar Chavez; traffic nightmare to 101, smog, noise.
Day workers hanging on Chavez looking for work..or drugs..
One block from a section 8 housing project; drug dealers, gangs and street shootings.
who the hell would buy here? let alone build here?
Posted by: noearch at October 31, 2008 7:26 PM
I disagree with it being that bad. I don't think anything is worth that dollar over there but come on. "Traffic nightmare to 101", and this is different than Noe Valley (the southern commute jacked up the prices) how exactly? Shootings, day labor; the distant to Noe Valley from Cesar Chavez is how far (not counting, of course, that C.Chavez runs through Noe)?
Posted by: sparky-the-bear at October 31, 2008 8:17 PM
then you go over there and hang out for a few hours. it's a sad neighborhood in many ways. The Greening of Chavez may help, coming soon.
It may in fact be only about 1.5 miles from NV, but it's light years away in attitude, life style, and income. I do hope it improves, but it may take a long time.
Posted by: noearch at October 31, 2008 8:39 PM
Ah, but this neighborhood has improved...remember what this neighborhood was 20 years ago? I do. It's "light years away in attitude" from what it was then. As far as being "light years" in "attitude" from NV...ahh, now we're looking through the eyes of the beholder, and who knows what someone is willing to spend...it's always astonishing to me. I totally agree that this house will never go for over $2M. For the size, the $/sf should be far, far lower. But if mortgages are available to the right buyer, this just might be their ticket at, hmmm, maybe $1.5M? That's my guess.
Posted by: BernalDweller at October 31, 2008 10:36 PM
The Tenderloin is how far from Pacific Heights? Aren't the practically the same neighborhood?
Posted by: NoeValleyJim at October 31, 2008 10:46 PM
Wow, Bernal is getting pricey.
PSA: Vote David Chiu for District 3 Supervisor!
Posted by: jessep at October 31, 2008 11:01 PM
Group Nob Hill in there too.
Posted by: jessep at October 31, 2008 11:03 PM
as a biker that lives up the street, commuting down Harrison to SOMA will be awesome for that tres chic tech geek warrior; or jumping in the Lambo' down CC to the valley...oh yeah.
as a parent who takes their kid + dog to Precita nearly daily, living a block off the park would be pretty awesome too.
BUT - that block is shyte. The sideshows from section*8 across CC will be dis-quieting at the least. Gotta move up the hill for a bit more security from MS-13 BS.
I might also add, i recently reviewed the Arcadia press historical tome on BH and it was duly noted how the Precita creek ran down what is now CC but was buried earlier in the 20th century. Nice historical fact, but after watching and talking to the Irish workmen onsite for the initial dig, one realizes that this site is exactly on the lowest spot where waters accumulate. The tractors were half-buried under mud and it took 'em weeks to get that mess close to what should be a foundation. Mr. workman was so bold as to say the soils engineer hadn't a clue. So, somebody's gonna eat that little snafu. Enjoy mr. & mrs. close to everything!
Posted by: mrg at October 31, 2008 11:26 PM
mrg, check out the creeks under Noe Valley.
noearch, I do spend time there. My sister lives there. Walks her kid at that park. Also, how is it From Harrison,Folsom,Mission,Val.,Guerrero, Dolores is 1.5 Miles.
Posted by: sparky-the-bear at November 1, 2008 8:47 AM
STB, give it up! This is a horrible location to pay 2.7 million, and whether it is 2 miles from Noe Valley does not help the fact that it is where it is. Why don't you step right up and take one of these fine homes?
The idea of building residences at this price in this location is so 2005. Affordable 1bd units would do much better.
Posted by: anon2 at November 1, 2008 10:06 AM
C'mon you guys, that has been the formula for the last 5 years. Find a very sub par location (think One Rincon, or Esprit Park), put up an absolutely gorgeous home (Esprit Park), or just sell the view (One Rincon) and then watch the yuppies fall all over themselves to get at it at whatever preposterous price you want to list it, and hope they are too star struck or dreaming of real estate riches to realize that Location, Location, Location matters, or at least will matter when there isn't a credit bubble.
Will it work now, at that location for that price? It isn't even working any more at Esprit Park or One Rincon, so I doubt it. But they only need to sell two of them! And if they have to cut the price in half, I bet they still make money, so who cares! When you buy a crappy lot in a bad location, you really don't have to worry about the sell price.
Posted by: tipster at November 1, 2008 10:30 AM
anon2, give what up. Read the first post on this thread, that is me mocking this price. I don't hate the nieghborhood, I'm not going to give that up. I think this is way over priced, but I disagreed with the comment "do you people have any idea how bad that neighborhood is?" and "it's a sad neighborhood in many ways."
I was making a comparison of this hood to Noe. And in cased you've missed it, ever since I first started posting on this site I have been saying that Noe is way over priced. So to be clear Noe is way overpriced, and this is no Noe Valley.
Posted by: sparky-the-bear at November 1, 2008 10:43 AM
This location is 0.7 miles from Noe Valley.
Posted by: Dan at November 1, 2008 10:45 AM
As a gauge of the merits of the neighborhood, I noticed that Google StreetView does not cover that portion of Harrison.
Go look at what other portions of SF are not covered and you can get an idea of the residential-worthiness of 3119 Harrison.
Posted by: asiagoSF at November 1, 2008 11:03 AM
I just drove past this lot on my way to my house on Mullen (not the Steely house). The lot is very close to Chavez unfortunately but the park is also right there and lots of houses are being fixed up and people planting more trees. I love the Precita Park area but then I am up the hill a little.
Posted by: bob at November 1, 2008 1:42 PM
I am confused. Are some saying the neighborhood is worth 2.7 million? If not, what is the point? Sure everywhere is "worth" some price, but what should the psf be at this location, even if it is a nice DWELL design? There are parks, views, and charming streets throughout the city, why spend 2.7 million here?!
Posted by: anoncurious at November 1, 2008 2:40 PM
I love the look of that kitchen. It's all the rage now to have no overhead cabinets in kitchens and it gives them a fabulously clean, streamlined look. But talk about having to downsize on all your crockery, pots and pans, food and so on. Only a pure minimalist could live with so little storage.
Posted by: TKT at November 1, 2008 5:18 PM
these prices could EASILY come down 40% for this place. I played softball at the park down the street and was very concerned that i may be shot rounding 2nd base.
Why anyone would pay multiple million dollars to live in the ghetto is beyond me.
Posted by: spencer at November 1, 2008 7:15 PM
This location is 0.7 miles from Noe Valley.
Dan, you are correct. But it is more than a mile from the Noe Valley that people want to walk to: either the good blocks of Church or 24th between Diamond and Dolores.
You're not gonna push your baby stroller all the way up Cesar Chavez on Saturday morning are you? You might maybe walk up Mission to good plain vanilla Safeway or you'll just take your car like everybody else... Of course you can drive straight to 24th, but that's a bit sad to escape to another nabe, and not worth paying 2.7M for that. People move to BH precisely not to pay ridiculous NV prices and still have something decent.
On the other hand, I have seen pretty nice and quiet blocks with well kept houses on parallel streets between 25th and Precita. It's a residential neighborhood that deserves better than the Cesar Chavez stigma, but where it is going is debatable.
I can understand why you'd want to have this kind of building even in this area, though. Try and get something like that in more pretentious neighborhoods. You'll have every neighbor accusing you of desecrating the classicity of their dollhouse rows. Not much creative freedom there. Close to CC, I assume many will welcome anything new as a way to better their area.
But 2.7M to be in this Avant Garde? That's pushing it a bit far.
Posted by: San FronziScheme at November 1, 2008 11:04 PM
Hmm, let's see, crappy street, crappy area, crappy buildings, combined with eye-rollingly overdone "dwell-ish" architecture, in my favorite hue, tones of tan. I predict they'll go for around 2mil give or take a 100k each.
Posted by: Jake at November 2, 2008 10:01 AM
OPINION: The design is ugly. In 10 years it's going to look like the 80s minimalist boxy apartment building design. In fact this looks like simply an updated version of that.
Posted by: sf at November 2, 2008 9:29 PM
The new architectural fad for stained wood siding on contemporary homes is troubling in that it will be a maintenance nightmare for the owners. (I know!) Plan on having to pressure wash, strip and re-stain and seal the wood every 3 years.
Posted by: Justin at November 3, 2008 3:48 AM
agree with Justin
good reason people buy fiberglass sailboats
maybe the next fad should be brass fittings all over the outside in SF
then one could obsess on keeping the brasswork
Posted by: irreverent at November 3, 2008 10:21 AM
Are we sure this isn't 2.7M for both units? Even that would be a terrific comp for neighbors. Two point seven each is absurd, with no views, within sight of the CC projects, just off CC, south of Precita, and across from a busy school.
Posted by: fluj at November 4, 2008 8:54 AM
I think that must be the case, $2.7M is for both. That would be $1.35M each for 3000 ft. I still don't see that for a condo in Bernal.
[Editor's Note: Nope. Initial asking is $2.7M each.]
Posted by: sparky-the-bear at November 4, 2008 8:57 AM
the problem w/this project is that it is a high end development for a street section of mission/bernal that is compromised. i looked at a 2 unit bldg < 100 feet away from this a few years back, and i didn't like: a) proximity to cesear chavez b) bird's eye view of the (improved) projects c) next door to a noisy elementary school.
as for the desireability of being close to precita park, it's close but no cigar. precita park is nice, but this is on the wrong end of it- the ass side, if you will.
so i brought further up on precita ave, cross is shotwell, and my tenants love that spot.
these guys must think it 2006 all over again- that subterean construction they are doing over there looks heluva expensive...they may get $1.6 per unit if they are lucky. 2.7 no way, no how in this market. i hate to say it, but if these guys need north of $900/sq ft, they are going to get their ass handed to them. shit, makes me feel slightly better about my f*cked-up development, which i hope is not a slow motion film of a train wreck!
Posted by: 44yo hipster at November 5, 2008 8:45 AM
Yeah, stained wood sidings might not be the best for a coastal city depending on moisture levels and sun exposure. The time when houses look their best is when they are new or when someone is shelling real dough to redo them (resale, renovation). In between it's the fight against time and weather. Better make things easier from the start.
Anyone has suggestions on sidings that will look good for a long time?
Posted by: San FronziScheme at November 5, 2008 9:22 AM
"Yeah, stained wood sidings might not be the best for a coastal city depending on moisture levels and sun exposure."
This reminds me of Sci-Fi jumpsuit syndrome.
Whenever a new Sci-fi show is started they need to decide what the characters will wear. So they say to themselves, "Well, we want the show to look futuristic so what DON'T people wear today. Jumpsuits! Yah! Nobody wears jumpsuits so let's do that!" Then in short order they discover WHY no one wears jumpsuits today. Only a tiny minority can look good in them.
I suspect we're seeing a similar effect with today developers. "Hey! Let's do something innovative with the siding! Well, what DON'T people use for siding today? I got it! Stained wood!" Without bothering to think through WHY people don't use stained wood for siding.
Posted by: diemos at November 5, 2008 9:40 AM
i live very, very close to that location. i don't care how fabulous the building is, if i was going to spend that kind of money i would get the hell out of this neighborhood. it's 1/2 block off army and is across the street from an elementary school.
the housing across army is no longer the projects that used to be there, but it's almost as bad.
i can only imagine the kind of jackasses that will move in. the outside is hideous.
Posted by: rightttt at January 24, 2009 3:24 PM