September 30, 2008
A Listed Infinity Resale (301 Main #4B) And Reader’s Report On Sales
As a number of readers and tipsters have noted alike, 301 Main Street #4B (a lower floor two-bedroom resale in The Infinity) has hit the MLS and open house parade.
According to one tipster the asking price of $1,499,000 ($826/sqft) is “more than the current owner paid,” but unfortunately that’s a claim that we can’t confirm (readers?).
We can confirm, however, that $20,000 in Design Center credit was being offered “on most unsold homes in Phase 1” to all those attending an Infinity sales event last week (“must be in contract by 10/15/08”).
And from a plugged-in reader who attended said event: “They were still quoting 85-90% of units in contract or sold, which doesn't seem to have changed much in the last 10 months or so.” (Actually, 20% ten months ago.)
UPDATE: From a plugged-in tipster (and not the sales office): "[A]sking price for 4B was $1.25m when we were initially looking at it."
∙ Listing: 301 Main Street #4B (2+/2.5) - $1,499,000 [MLS]
∙ Infinity Update: Construction, Tower Two, And Possibly Even Sales [SocketSite]
First Published: September 30, 2008 5:30 AM
Comments from "Plugged In" Readers
Man that's one ugly kitchen.
So, incentives. And units still available.
I suppose we can conclude from this that they're not busting down the doors at the infinity. It seems that both of our SOMA poster children are having some problems with absorbtion.
The next stage in the progression is price cuts followed by howls of betrayal from early contract closers.
Posted by: diemos at September 30, 2008 7:00 AM
I'm an owner and toured the other day under cover. They are already cutting prices by 10% and are not shy about telling you they may cut more, just make an offer. This particular unit is a really nice layout and there are some great water views from the balcony that the builder didn't expect people to get so they were not factored into the price.
I put down 5%, so at this point I look at this place as a rental that I will walk away from when ready to move. I've got plenty of cash and don't need good credit over the next 7 years. Still a bit of a bummer to be underwater so far in a brand new building.
Posted by: tom at September 30, 2008 7:46 AM
What about the no resale clause in the contract. Would this mean that they are hurting so bad that the Infinity rejected their option to repurchase? Not good.
Posted by: anon at September 30, 2008 7:52 AM
We walked away months ago, for non-financial reasons.
Disabled buyers: please be very, very careful.
Posted by: goodbyeinfinity at September 30, 2008 7:58 AM
The Infinity developer has the first right of refusal when it comes to resales, during the prescribed period of time. The goal is to prevent resales from occuring at prices lower than those currently being asked for unsold units.
Posted by: ATL at September 30, 2008 8:14 AM
From a plugged-in tipster (and not the sales office): "[A]sking price for 4B was $1.25m when we were initially looking at it."
Posted by: SocketSite at September 30, 2008 8:49 AM
as others have said many times, it's such a shame that they chose that kitchen. I'm told it's very high end, but it reminds me of the laminate cabinets from the 1980's. I wonder how much it would be to rip out that kitchen and do a new one?
any contractors have an estimate?
also the picture up front shows one of the problems: designing a floor plan around the curved wall. they didnt' help things with that furniture arrangement. anybody else think it would be a weird seating arrangement with which to have a conversation?
we struggled to figure out a workable configuration, and finally thought it might work to float the couch opposite the windows, faced with the 2 chairs.
or get a custom made curved couch to go along the windows, and then a couch floated in the middle parralel to the curved couch?
Posted by: ex SF-er at September 30, 2008 9:02 AM
I'm not sure why folks hate that kitchen so much -- it goes with the rest of the condo nicely. It's hard to tell from two pics of course...
I'm more perturbed by the wavy-gravy track lighting!
Posted by: dub dub at September 30, 2008 9:34 AM
"as others have said many times, it's such a shame that they chose that kitchen. I'm told it's very high end, but it reminds me of the laminate cabinets from the 1980's."
Not to pile on here, but given that these sentiments [which I have mentioned myself] seem fairly widespread, why wouldn't they have altered these kitchens for the second tower? At the very least, offer purchasors a choice, as the quality [Studio Becker] is otherwise nothing to sneeze at. 400 more units to move in Tower II with the same kitchens - ugh. There will be price attrition and it will affect all condo owners in South Beach in ALL the highrises. One should really love where they live, as they will likely need to be there a fairly long time to come out ahead.
Ex-SFer: A mea culpa on my part - the banking situation is far worse than I had imagined, and your analysis that this would be a long drawn out [painful] process appears to be accurate.
As an aside, how did you enjoy your recent visit to SF? Get a chance to check out the Chiluly exhibit at the deYoung?
Posted by: Recent ORH buyer at September 30, 2008 9:41 AM
I don't get the white kitchen bashing myself. I don't like looking at kitchen cabinets when I'm sitting in my living room and the white blends in nicely.
Posted by: 94114 at September 30, 2008 9:43 AM
Chihuly exhibit - sorry
Posted by: Recent ORH buyer at September 30, 2008 9:44 AM
I also like the white cabinets also. It's very clean and modern which I think the Infinity was going for.
As for the resale, WOW; a flip for $250k more. Good luck to the sellers....
Posted by: j at September 30, 2008 10:06 AM
SF is always an amazing place to visit. I love it. I'm actually there quite often, but I don't usually advertise when I come. I only did my latest visit because someone mentioned they'd be in my neck of the woods.
This particular visit was the first in a while where I actually had a chance to walk around SoMa, South Beach, and Mission Bay. Overall I agree with many of the locals that these areas are all significantly improved compared to just 5 years ago. I was particularly happy to see that trees are being planted in South Beach!
I was also in your building a fair amount. Regardless of what anybody says, the views are breathtaking.
there is no need for a mea culpa. we all have our opinions based on our analysis. we've all been right and we've all been wrong before. I especially enjoy the contributions of those who disagree with me as it forces me to re-examine my own conclusions. it's like a pop quiz.
Posted by: ex SF-er at September 30, 2008 10:06 AM
The kitchen works for me, but those mirrors in the living room are awful. Why do people do that? Do they really think it makes the space look bigger?
At the same time these details seem kind of beside the point because if I were about to put a million and a half or so into a residence to own for the medium term if not longer then I would assume some customization would be involved and that wouldn't be limited to unchopping the pillows.
Posted by: Mole Man at September 30, 2008 10:11 AM
Mole man, I actually really liked the mirrors in the livingroom. Because they reflect the outside from every angle, it is like adding more windows. In fact, when I first looked at the pictures, I though there were moer windows there. I'm a fan of trying to make places look bigger with mirrors, however.
Posted by: tom at September 30, 2008 10:24 AM
Bizarre floor plan and no sub-zero. I don't get it...
Posted by: anon at September 30, 2008 10:37 AM
I'm one of the owners of a unit in the same stack in the Infinity. I love my unit because it has a lot of space (~1800 sq. ft.) and a very usable layout. I also love the building and location.
That said, I'm very curious about whether Unit 4B will sell for the current asking price $1.5m. Given the current economic environment, I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if the current owner could flip this unit for a $250k profit (before subtracting whatever she/he paid for the upgrades).
I actually thought that the current value of my unit might be lower than what was initially paid. But I'm OK with that because I love living in the unit and can wait until the market returns.
Here are some specific comments about Unit 4B. Most also apply to the other units in the same stack (3B - 8B):
The Infinity's curved windows make it hard to make efficient use of the space. The curved windows in the other corner units are really nice because they are large and so let in a lot of sunlight and provide good views. But it's hard to figure out how to place your furniture in a quarter circle room.
Unit 4B's layout is a compromise between good views and efficient layout because it's only an eighth of a circle - most of the rooms in this unit are rectangular. Also, the current couch placement in this unit works because you get a very nice view of the Gap building and a little water view of the bay when you sit on it. Although not a stunning view by any means, the view is very pleasant.
I really like the white kitchen because it looks modern and sleek. It looks a lot better in person than in the MLS pics. Also, the overall build quality of the kitchen is great. But I also understand that this look might not work for some people.
I do have a couple problems with the kitchen. First, the bottom of the microwave is almost 6 feet from the ground. So unless you're a really tall person, you need to be very careful when putting in and taking out hot dishes from the microwave. Second, all the kitchen cabinets/drawers have pointy handles that stick out a lot. So when you're cleaning dishes or cleaning, the handles tend to poke you a bit. This is really annoying.
UPGRADES TO UNIT 4B
From what I could tell from visiting Unit 4B's open house, it has had the following upgrades: 1) hardwood floors throughout the entire unit, 2) crown molding, 3) painted walls, 4) custom recessed lighting in the kitchen and bedrooms, 5) curved track lighting and 6) mirror on the wall next to the couch.
Most of the upgrades are really nice. But I thought that the curved track lighting and mirror on the wall looked sort of cheesy. The curved track lighting that snakes all over the ceiling didn't fit the otherwise clean, simple modern lines. And IMO, the mirror looks sort of like it belongs in the 80s.
Posted by: infinity resident at September 30, 2008 10:46 AM
Bizarre floor plan and no sub-zero. I don't get it...
What's so bizarre about the floorplan? 2 ensuite bedrooms on opposite sides of the unit. The living area/den/lounge area in the middle with a half bath. A storage/utility room tucked away in the back. Looks nice to me.
The Infinity DOES have some bizarre floorplans, esp in the 2 bedroom units, but I don't think this is one of them.
Posted by: anon at September 30, 2008 10:50 AM
Went to the Sales office in July. I am an all cash investor and the sales lady kept telling me that "just make an offer" to the asking price. Oh yeah, within 20 minutes, she showed me at least 5 to 6 units (1 bedroom and 2-bedroom) and she said there were more units if I was interested to see the rest. I've decided to wait till December to make a really low offer to one of the units.
Posted by: biz232 at September 30, 2008 10:55 AM
hmm..250k over what was paid not too long ago... in this market? Reminds me of the only unit I know of over at 1RH that sold for over the original buyers price.... and I'm a bit skeptical of that one...
As I said before in recent posts, I wouldn't be surprised if Infinity started slashing 10% or more. My thoughts are that they need to for 3 reasons: 1) Bad market, 2) Tower II is itching to start sells and is being delayed by Tower I's slow sells, 3) Remaining units are the undesirable ones.
I've always heard that the last units of a condo building get discounted (even in a good market) because they are usually undesirable locations, and the developers have to discount them to close-out? Anyone with any experience know a thing or two about this?
Oh, and I can't remember if I mentioned this in the last Infinity conversation; but I went in earlier this month and took another look at the unit I withdrew an offer from this time last year. The listing price was (surprisingly to me) exactly the same. The salesperson did hint that they'd entertain less.... but I talked them down a lot less last year, and I was expecting even less of an asking price this time around. Leads me to believe they haven't yet changed their pricing policies much - perhaps the 20k designer credit (which wasn't offered to me last year) is a start.
Posted by: phatty at September 30, 2008 11:11 AM
The floor plan is bizarre because although there is a lot of space much of it is far away from any source of natural light. Spaces that do have windows have awkward shapes that make them hard to furnish. And the kitchen wing wall makes the dining area really awkward. FAll in all, from the photographs, this doesn't seem like a place that is comfortable to inhabit.
The mirror would be ok if it covered the entire wall. Where it stops seems arbitrary. The problem with the mirror, though, is that it is always an indication that the space is too small - in an 1800 SF unit! Which goes back to my first point.
If I had 1.5 M to go house shopping with I don't think I'd spend it here. Do like the indoor pool, though!
Posted by: Salarywoman at September 30, 2008 11:31 AM
"hmm..250k over what was paid not too long ago... in this market? Reminds me of the only unit I know of over at 1RH that sold for over the original buyers price.... and I'm a bit skeptical of that one..."
Both 2202 and 2602 sold at about $250K over the 'early' purchase price, but 1606 failed to replicate the trend and was withdrawn. Although these sales seem hard to fathom, I believe [from talking with the listing agents] that both were above board transactions, although admittedly neither buyer would likely qualify as "plugged in".
That said, I do think that these sales probably end up as abberations [as would 4D if it sells for asking] unless credit markets see some dramatic changes ... which likely won't happen for a while.
Phatty - perhaps it may make sense to put in an offer that makes sense to you ... maybe you will get a callback in a few months :-)
Posted by: Recent ORH buyer at September 30, 2008 11:32 AM
"Phatty - perhaps it may make sense to put in an offer that makes sense to you ... maybe you will get a callback in a few months :-)"
Ditto to biz232 :-)
Posted by: chuckie at September 30, 2008 11:38 AM
Socketsite Said "And from a plugged-in reader who attended said event: “They were still quoting 85-90% of units in contract or sold, which doesn't seem to have changed much in the last 10 months or so.” (Actually, 20% ten months ago.)"
That is like the most useless way the word "or" could be used in a sentence.
In contract these days means "waiting to adjust our statistics until we absolutely have to".
When I went to look at these a year ago its was 80% in contract or sold. now it looks like about the same. I think at this point the ONLY useful stastistic is what % closed? If socketsite can get that out of infinity that would be the true predictor.
I LOVE this building but I think it's gonna come down 20-40% more at least. I think 600-800 % per sqf makes sense for this. Prices are likely to be stable at that--one would think for a few years.
Posted by: cooper at September 30, 2008 12:39 PM
someone trying to make a 250k profit on a flip at the Infinity?! A. They must be out of towners and have no grasp on the soma condo market B. It sounds like the unit is not all that desirable and C. It also sounds like you can get a new unit from the sales office for a song plus free upgrades.
Maybe I'm missing something here?
Posted by: Ryan at September 30, 2008 12:45 PM
Unprecedented activity in the credit markets .... what do you do when overnight LIBOR jumps by 400 bps and the effective Fed Funds rate is between 6% and 7% because everyone is hoarding cash and unwilling to lend to anyone. Curious to see where Mortgage Rates are in 6 months....
Posted by: jamie at September 30, 2008 5:38 PM
"I LOVE this building but I think it's gonna come down 20-40% more at least. I think 600-800 % per sqf makes sense for this. Prices are likely to be stable at that--one would think for a few years."
The building and location are great. And the large gym and indoor pool are wonderful. I do agree prices need to come down 10-15%. Maybe they should throw in the 4% commission like One Rincon is doing so agents will drive more clients into the sales office...
Posted by: missionbayres at September 30, 2008 5:40 PM
Does anyone know what units are remaining and how much they are being offered for (and their original price).
Posted by: tstinks at September 30, 2008 10:45 PM
The Infinity is one of the finest new developments on the west coast. The combination of location, amenities and design make it a very compelling addition to the San Francisco Condominium community. Only 1 out of the 15 buyers I have represented at the Infinity failed to close, and this was only because he was provided the opportuniy to enroll at the Harvard Business School (and his wife got into MIT Sloan). South Beach has a bright future and the Infinity will be one of the new landmarks to lead it to the realization of it's full potential.
Posted by: Paul Hwang at September 30, 2008 11:19 PM
I walked through the tower last night and counted units that had not yet closed. You can do this by noting which ones are keyed for the master key. It was 63. That is a lot of units to not be closed and I know they are not delaying any closings. The people I know were virtually begged and asked to close asap for the last few months.
Posted by: tom at October 1, 2008 7:16 AM
What has been the pricing trend in South Beach in the last year or so? And what do you see coming in the next 12-24 months?
From what I have been seeing and reading, the prices are down 5-10% for nice/well-located properties and may go down another 10% or more in next 12-24 months.
Thanks in advance.
Posted by: chuckie at October 1, 2008 8:14 AM
There is a lot of downward pressure right now, prices are certainly not at thelevels they were 18 months ago and market psychology is decidely negative. It's problematic to predict pricing on a such a short term. Who is going to be president? What is the price of oil going to be? Where are jobs goingto be located? Anyone who tells you what is going to happen 1-3 years out is just speculating. Certainly I want to get my clients a good deal, but their goals are not entirely financial. I suggest if they are, then there may be a better asset class for them to meet that goal. There are other things that factor into it such as, quality of life, family and of coarse; love.
I do know this: when there is uncertainty there is opportunity. If you are in it for the long term you will be fine if you think population and income will continue to grow in the Bay Area.
Posted by: Paul Hwang at October 1, 2008 9:33 AM
Thanks you... and one last question. Buy now or wait 12 months?
Posted by: chuckie at October 1, 2008 11:37 AM
Well, that would depend on the deal. Just remeber the patient guys is the guy that makes out in Real Estate and stick to your guns.
Posted by: Paul Hwang at October 1, 2008 2:38 PM
umm - a 2-lane pool?
Posted by: cw at October 3, 2008 11:19 AM
I need some feedback here. I have an opportunity to buy a 2 Bedroom / 2 Bathroom Unit at Infinity (1309 square feet) for $650/sf. It doesn't have a view of the water however. It does have a decent Bay Bridge view but no water view. This seems like a good deal to me, but since people here are very candid with their comments, I thought I would reach out to you all for your thoughts. I appreciate it!!!
Posted by: Victor Harrington at April 9, 2009 4:59 PM