Listings (for sale) Seemingly Random Property Listing Line Of The Day (And An All Too Common Pet Peeve) May 27, 2008 An excerpt from the listing for 1778 Page: “…for the discerning buyer who doesn’t want to pay for the cheesy remodel done by someone else…” ∙ Listing: 1778 Page Street (4/1) – $695,000 (TIC) [MLS] Recent Articles Appraisal Agreement: Violating Federal Law Or Industry Interests? March S&P/Case-Shiller: San Francisco MSA Declines, Top Tier Flat Comments from “Plugged-In” Readers Posted by paco 7 years ago this building just closed a coupla months ago (listed $1.4m i think). it should be a good gauge of local sentiment. they must have paid less than $400k/unit even with the buyouts so they stand to make easy money if these units sell. Reply Posted by livinintheloin 7 years ago Right up there with “mid-century” and “cozy” — for the discerning buyer who wants to live in a small 1950’s place. Reply Posted by San FronziScheme 7 years ago From PropertyShark.com: Sold on 4/11 for 1.46M by property managers. There are 4 units total in the building but if the square footage is correct, this one represents 40% of the total property surface. It appears they bought wholesale and are selling retail. Reply Posted by bigidea 7 years ago Is that me or is there a big paint splotch on the wall??? Reply Posted by bdb 7 years ago I think that’s just your monitor Reply Posted by aquabun 7 years ago As snarky as that comment sounds, I have to agree with the sentiment. My neighbors just completed a huge remodel that has tortured us for months, only to slap a for sale sign on their shoddy piece of bad design. All I can think of is how wasteful it will be when someone buys it and pulls up all that brand new tile and ditches it in the garbage in favor of something that actually looks nice. Reply Posted by San fronziScheme 7 years ago Property managers buying a building? Did they have it under management previously? If so, is this a conflict of interest? Or are property managers just a business with plain vanilla rules? Reply Posted by Miles 7 years ago While I’m no fan of TIC’s, this looks like a pretty nice place – plenty of space, top floor, with high ceilings in a pretty decent location (if the Haight is your thing). While this site features a lot of bare bones complete renovations, some people would do just partial updates (floors and minor kitchen/bath updates) to keep costs down. Anyone know how the fractional TIC loan programs are holding up with credit tightening up over the last 6 months? Reply Posted by Foolio 7 years ago Seems like a nice option for rental income, but who’s going to sink a bunch of cash into a remodel for this TIC, with no parking and only one BA? If it’s true that this place represents 40% of the total interest, it’s listed at about $100k over what they “paid,” $584k. Not a bad profit, even considering selling commissions, taxes, and any other cost (if it sells). Reply Posted by paco 7 years ago miles you asked “Anyone know how the fractional TIC loan programs are holding up with credit tightening up over the last 6 months?” i think they are doing well b/c the standards were tough to begin with and these types of loans are kept on the books of the banks making them ( as there is no securitization of ‘em yet.) in fact i would venture to say that the main players in this market are happy about this segment of their biz. i believe that the developers have the incentive to buy the rates down to keep moving their product. has anyone heard differently? i’m sure brown and co would be able to answer this. Reply Posted by Trip 7 years ago I have also read that this segment of financing has done well for the lenders — shows the (formerly old-fashioned) value of solid underwriting practices. Reply Posted by urban_angst 7 years ago This would be a great property for a VRBO. Close to a touristy area and no parking. Reply Posted by anon11 7 years ago I actually agree with the sentiment– I’d rather not pay for a bad remodel. But I have become cynical of realtor euphemisms and catch-phrases. I do think we could come up with a pretty funny dictionary: -“Rarely available” (so many properties are rarely available . . .) -“Coveted” (same as above) -“Contractor’s Special (tear-down) -“period details” (contractor’s special) -Pacific Heights (lower Pacific Heights) -Lower Pacific Heights (tenderloin) Funny– I looked at a property by a “major producer” at a top local firm that advertised “Views of the Palace of Fine Arts.” The views were if you walked out into the middle of the street and looked up a few blocks. Outright lie, but I guess nothing matters in a self-regulated industry. Reply Posted by Foolio 7 years ago “Close to a touristy area and no parking.” Agree on the no parking, but close to a touristy area? The Panhandle? The Haight? Hmmm…not sure I understand… Also, is it typical for a VRBO to have only 1 bathroom for all to share? Sounds like a real hassle… Reply Posted by paco 7 years ago not like many hotel rooms have more than one bathroom Reply Posted by resp 7 years ago If this unit is really 40% of the building’s square footage then the bldg total is 4160 sqft and the sale price a few months ago was $350/sq ft. Sounds like someone got a steal. Obviously a quick flip based on the timing and the agent. Anyone know if this was ever on the market or a “pocket deal”?? Reply Posted by paco 7 years ago it was on the market and open several times Reply Posted by San Fronzischeme 7 years ago The whole building is reported as 3992sf total. Which makes this 1664sf unit about 41% of the total. The last sale being at 1.46M, this gives you 365/sf. This unit at asking price is 417/sf. The sellers are expecting a 15% increase in price. Reply Posted by Foolio 7 years ago @paco: Perhaps I’m misunderstanding your comment, but I’d certainly expect a 4-bedroom “hotel” to have more than one bathroom. Reply Posted by paco 7 years ago does anyone believe that tax records for older buildings are accurate vis a vis sq.footage? anyone? this building has three flats and aside from the stairwell they are very close to being the same size. Reply Posted by paco 7 years ago i think the earlier poster was saying this would be a good vrbo candidate which i think means renting out the entire flat as a vacation rental as opposed to by the room rental. so this would be a four bedroom suite, not a four bedroom hotel. Reply Posted by Ryan 7 years ago I just went through the TIC loan process myself. We had 10% down, 46% debt/income, with additional liquid assets available (I’m not sure what the asset requirement is, but it’s not insignificant). I believe you can reduce the additional assets with 15% down. It’s still full doc, including requiring 2 months’ pay stubs and a certified letter from my employer verifying my job security and income. On top of that, the bank has to have the ability to OMI/Ellis without permission of the other tenants upon foreclosure, while preventing you from evicting without notifying the bank. However, they are happy to write loans, though, if you are willing to run through the hassle. On the topic of this TIC: it has a few details that are a little irritating, like the tacky track lighting, or the lack of shades on the ceiling fixtures. Reply Posted by Foolio 7 years ago @paco: I would insist on at least 2 bathrooms (and probably more like 2.5 or 3) for a four-bedroom suite, but perhaps I’m just “throwing my money away.” I am a renter, after all. Reply Posted by paco 7 years ago yo foolio, i have never needed such a large suite so i’m not well versed. have you ever rented a 2.5-3 bathroom hotel suite/vacation rental? i can picture that when you rent a house in hawaii or cabo but not so much for an apartment in an urban area. anyway it was not my suggestion that this would be a good vrbo candidate. Reply Posted by hugh 7 years ago That place is lovely. The bathroom looks pretty much original, the kitchen looks like a rental (which it undoubtedly was for decades). The rest of the space is gorgeous. Honestly, all of the kitchens/bathrooms in redone TICs do look cheesy. All done up in whatever is perceived as trendy and ‘high end’ this year. Insta-datedness. when i see them, all i see is the 70s-80s equivalents. hex tile and a clawfoot tub (even a little beat) is a million times better than the sink bowl on slate or granite slab and whatever other interior elements are better suited to a McMansion. Reply Posted by hugh 7 years ago um… in terms of 80s equivalent… most TICs look like circa-2008 Beetlejuice-style renovation. Reply Posted by Foolio 7 years ago @paco: I agree, this place doesn’t seem like a good vacation option to me because of (among other things) the location and the 1 bathroom, but I don’t have much experience in that arena, so I didn’t know. I do think, at a bit less, it could be a good deal for someone looking for good rental income. Reply Posted by paco 7 years ago yo foolio, i don’t think the numbers work for straight rental(don’t forget hoa’s expense). vacation rentals garner alot more in rent but are WAY too work intensive and tourism sensitive for my taste. if you had purchased the whole building, with 50%down you’re looking at around $9,000/month to own it (counting opportunity cost of $2800/mo on your $700k down @4%). this does not seem so bad but i believe the units were not vacant when this sold which implies lower rents or adding the buyouts to your costs. i looked at it when it came to market but the lack of garage was the deal breaker for me. i think these owners are right to try to flip.tic.it (my word) and i am watching eagerly. its risky and bold! good luck to them. this will be a good proxy for the market. Reply Posted by hugh 7 years ago #1 sign SF real estate is still a bubble (at least mentality-wise): Discussion of VRBO… the last gasp for hopes of high return on something too high to rent without 10 years of projected loss. No mention of the fact that as a large, beautiful top floor flat, this seems to be listed at about $100k less than smaller basement units in the same neighborhood of the past few months (or is that what a european stove and a few slabs of granite adds?). Personally, I find this encouraging, as someone who sees homes as, well… homes, and my primary motivation to buy being protection from speculative inflation. Reply Posted by paco 7 years ago @hugh, i agree on the vrbo call. and the desire to be protected from the speculative inflation. maybe not so much on the basement units selling for $795k in the past (at least not w/out parking ;)). any link? Reply Posted by hugh 7 years ago ok… maybe i’m wrong. and fell for the the $695 being in the $600 range trick. i looked at a couple listed at $725 or so… looking on redfin for recent sales, it looks like there are lots in the $800-900 range in the past year, but they are all listed as condos. Reply Posted by paco 7 years ago and not smaller basement units either, and move in ready as well (for the not-so-handy-no-time-anyway crowd), but i do get your point and i agree. thats why i think these guys are on the right track in spitting them out quick even tho they are not remodelled. Reply Posted by AMinSF 7 years ago paco- i wonder what the owners paid for the buyouts? (dealing w/a pack of haight roomies could be a challenge…probably all read the bay guardian for their tenant rights!) that being said, the few months of holding and the sales comm (let’s assume seller is not a realtor, for objectivity) will take a serious bite out of the profits. this will only work if there are eager tic buyers that want to deal w/a (pretty major) remodel. i think most tic buyers are like condo buyers- they want a decent, renovated unit. if they sell quickly, they could make north of $200k, making it a good deal. but personally, i prefer to add value w/a good renovation/reuse of space, like adding a badly needed 2nd bath, and transforming the back porch from crapola to a nice sun room area. this property would hve been dope if there was a reasonable way to add parking. as it stands, this could stalefish on the market, forcing a 50k (per unit) price reduction, wiping out most of that opportunistic profit. these guys do have some balls though! Reply Posted by frances conroy 7 years ago This unit should be priced in the mid $300 psf to justify the risks involved. The seller is trying to sell the unit as a ‘future’ TIC, I don’t think it’s even legal to do that. The seller has to buy out the remaining tenants who may or may not agree, if they go for an Ellis Act eviction you can kiss any future appreciation goodbye. Has anyone spoken to the listing agent? They are getting at least 5 calls everyday for this ‘popular’ listing. Reply Posted by Mike 7 years ago It looks like there’s been an offer. It’s now marked “Act. Cont. “. That didn’t take too long! Reply Posted by paco 7 years ago yo frances, you wrote, “The seller has to buy out the remaining tenants who may or may not agree, if they go for an Ellis Act eviction you can kiss any future appreciation goodbye.” i’m wondering why you think this is true? any link? personally, i’ve seen the opposite. Reply Posted by SocketSite 6 years ago It looks like there’s been an offer. It’s now marked “Act. Cont. “. That didn’t take too long! Out of contract and once again available (which is one of the reasons we typically don’t mention it when a listing simply goes into escrow). Reply Posted by San FronziScheme 6 years ago The listing on this unit went from 695K to 689K apparently in the past month according to RedFin. http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Francisco/1778-Page-St-94117/home/12539618 Reply Posted by paco 6 years ago and now the whole building is on the market for $2m and listed as vacant. Reply Add a Comment Cancel Reply Comment Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked * Name * Email * Website Incorrect or empty reCAPTCHA response, please try again. 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