Apparently the foundation is new, but not “completely finished.” And while there are approved plans “included in sale,” we can’t tell if those plans include the top floor penthouse which was a point of contention (and unsuccessfully appealed by the permit holder in 2006) or not.
We do like the location, and it is zoned RH-2, but do take note of the skinny lot and hence the need to push up (at least at this price).
∙ Listing: 1847 Scott Street – $875,000 [MLS] [Map]
I love love LOVE these little tollhouse shacks strewn about the city. I know that 90% of them are the same as this, some absentee owner letting it rot until lot prices rise to their ideal, but it’s a shame that they’re all getting razed instead of rehabbed.
Well of course the neighbors would complain about a plan to turn it into a livable property. Far preferable to have that existing p.o.s. shell teetering on the verge of collapse for a few more decades. Idiots.
Thoughts on the “asking price” (too high)?
MLS listing doesn’t show any sq ft info. I found some off Zillow.
1847 Scott Street, San Francisco, CA
Public Facts:
Single family
1.0 bath
850 sqft
Lot 1,319 sqft
Built in 1900
Here’s zillow link:
http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=15083158
Property Shark link:
http://www.propertyshark.com/mason/san_francisco/Reports2/showsection.html?propkey=30449063
I hope someone will speculate how the $/psf numbers will work for this property.
Chuckie-
I’ll give it a crack. A very conservative one (for the seller, not the buyer).
Currently, at the $875,000 asking price, we’re looking at $1029/sq ft. So the seller obviously thinks the value of the home should be close to what it could become.
So lets make the assumption that the plans double the current space of the house and brings it to 1700 sq. ft. (and why not make it a 2 ba while we’re at it?)
Assume a very, very low rehab cost/sq. ft of $250, and we’re at $1.3M to deliver the nice house (without a place to park). ( click here for a better breakdown on construction costs)
Treeman, good stuff.
The thing I don’t know and can’t find (quickly) is what the height allowance is on a RH-2. I see a few mentions of 40-X, which I assume is 40 feet, which could mean 3-4 “levels”/floors, depending on your desired ceiling height.
This has a big potential impact, as at 4 levels (1 for garage, 3 living * 865 sq ft, call it 2300 liveable perhaps w/ stairs, etc) and a roof deck, $1.5MM starts to become reasonable (in SF terms), especially considering it was “built to suit” (vs the $1.5MM comp which was built to someone else’s needs/tastes).
Tony-
My $1.5MM is based on 1700sq. ft, and is probably closer to $2.0MM in reality. I also goofed as there is a garage in the plan from the picture.
Anyhow, you added 600 cost free sq. feet to my number to make the price reasonable. You can’t do that!
Also, as the main post states, the top level was not approved. So you don’t get your 4 levels. You have 3.
I don’t think there’s any math you can do to make this house worth more than $500k. That doesn’t mean someone won’t try though. What is it they say – a fool and his money……
It would be a 2+yr project at that. Do you want that headache? For something that is break-even at best?
I can’t for the life of me see why this place can’t be 4 levels.
The place RIGHT NEXT DOOR has 4 levels, and doesn’t have a single window on that side.
I’m sure it has to do with the house across the street, obstructing their views or something?
Maybe I should mapjack it to see what’s across the street.
This in a nutshell is the problem with SF.
if you could be reasonably sure of property rights, you could buy this place and rehab it.
however, given how tenuous it all is (a big crapshoot really) who wants to sink a Million bucks into the hole with only a glimmer of hope that you might get what you want?
rediculous
The guy washing his car might get upset!
http://www.mapjack.com/?pBAnWCpxbFcB8CAA
Good analysis – I think it illustrates that these types of renovation projects don’t work anymore – not given the asking prices for the land and shell and given the market outlook 2 – 3 years out that at least many of us subscribe to. Is a tiny lot hemmed in by hostile neighbors (who have shown their willingness to fight) worth $30M per acre?
I’ve been wondering for years now why a house in such a desirable location lies fallow – now I know. All too predictable, alas.
Isn’t it under 20 feet wide? Even if you built it up to four stories it wouldn’t feel right.
People fight these things going to higher heights for more reasons than views. If this thing is built higher it will begin to impede on sunlight and wind flow in other’s backyards and homes. Many blocks are designed to allow for this. Ever noticed how most big buildings are on the ends of the block and the smaller ones are in the middle? It usually looks like a crescent. Not all blocks have been willing to fight over the years to maintain this, but I believe this was the original thought process of planning. Or so I hear from my neighbor who used these very arguments to block the conversion of a SFH to a 4 unit condo building on my block prior to my arrival a couple years ago.
I actually think the seller is better off rehabbing the existing structure (nothing added on to the house, just make it nice). Spend the $250k-$350k, and then sell for his $875k.
Or alternatively, try to sell right now for $500k. Don’t know if they’d find a buyer though.
I’d rather plunk down $875k for this place with nothing left to do, then to spend $500k for a headache.
The headline said it all, “..Rather A Lot..”
I used to walk by this house all the time about 6 years ago. Does anyone know the sales history on it? If I remember right, it was listed at $350,000 in 2002 and I watched as the scaffolding went up and the appearance of renovations started taking place. I walked by the house for 5 more years and nothing changed. I kept wondering what was going on…
It appears to be 18 feet wide. I can’t see any value whatsoever in the existing structure. I would love to buy this property, raze the building by any means necessary, and replace the structure with a pile of concrete, glass, and steel as tall as possible just out of spite.
It sold for $525K back in April 2003 – $200K over list price! Seems like a pretty high price for 2003 – $525K barely makes sense today.
This is off topic, but where can I go on-line to see the actual price that a unit sold for. I am interested in buying in the next year and am tracking properties on the MLS but without knowing what they actually sold for, it makes my research lacking. Thanks in advance.
Interested buyer,
A lot of people on here use property shark and zillow. Various title companies have subscription-based models that allow for searches.
And there is this:
http://gispubweb.sfgov.org/website/sfparcel/index.htm
It’s pretty cool. It allows for an address or block-lot (apn) search. If you click on the apn you can see what the city now values the property at. Just combine the land and improvement values. This one currently totals $567,571. I think the city actually has that about right!
Thanks Fluj