A couple of One Rincon Hill One Bedroom Deluxe units are making the rounds on Craigslist. And neither appear to be pricing in any appreciation over the past 18 months.
Looking for someone to take over my unit on the 20th floor. It is a deluxe one bedroom with Bay Bridge Views. The unit is on the twentieth floor and is 837 square feet. That is the largest one bedroom plan at One Rincon Hill, the tallest residential building west of the Mississippi. I put 31k in deposit on the unit back in Aug. of 2006. I am looking for someone to take over and am not looking to make any money.
And if $711,000 ($850 a square foot) for the 20th floor isn’t to your liking, a “low floor” One Bedroom Deluxe with “an early April closing” is asking $665,000 ($795 a square foot).
If the average price per square foot in the building is up 11% over the past 18 months to $1,004 (as per the developer), and the majority units from which buyers have walked away from their deposits have been resold at a premium (as per the sales office), then why aren’t these two contract holders touting a little “instant equity?”
∙ $711000 Rincon Hill – Water Views Deluxe One Bedroom [Craigslist]
∙ $665000 One Rincon Hill [Craigslist]
∙ Infinity And One Rincon Hill: Closings By The Numbers To Date (2/29) [SocketSite]
Where are you supposed to put the bed in the 11X13 bedroom? Twin bed perhaps?
Funny…
actually, the are a little bit more spacious than they first appear. 837 sq ft isn’t that bad for a 1BR. (my friends bought the 714 sq ft model as example)
The bedrooms easily can handle a Queen bed and 2 average sized end tables.
you can put a small computer desk or a dresser next to the nook near the walk in closet.
to me, the thing that made little/no sense was the “media alcove”. There’s no way you’d put media stuff there!
overall, I felt that the units are way too expensive for me (I’m cheap) but the layout for the most part made sense.
I wonder how many of these will come back on the market?
even if it’s just a few, it makes me wonder if there is enough demand for a second tower?
I thought people raved about how cheap these were? These aren’t that cheap. My Infinity treetop was $800/sq ft.
Looks pretty nice, though the bathroom is small and there are a lot of quirky angles (esp in the bedroom).
editor – any word on that second tower update…?
[Editor’s Note: Patience.]
Maybe a buyer can buy one of the units that are going begging…
…and then do a $150K cash out refi!
One thing’s for sure: desperation (or the air of desperation) doesn’t sell. “I’m not looking to make any money on this, please just buy out my deposit … waaah waah” is not gonna get those units sold!!
The term INSTANT EQUITY is starting to sound like the words LUXURY, FACTORY PRICES, etc.
This would prolly sell at around 620–599 for sure.
I would hope at least.
“Maybe a buyer can buy one of the units that are going begging…
…and then do a $150K cash out refi!”
That is pretty funny, but keep in mind he said he got it for the mid to low $700’s if I remember correctly. As for these two units, a little pricey if you ask me. This is all interesting, however, seeing how these things are shaking out. It will certainly not be a good sighn if these people can’t find someone to take over the K’s.
When the price is right, they will sell. Just bad timing for a lot of these people now. They went to contract when the market was booming – and now things have changed. When you speculate, you don’t always come out on top.
Agreed. Could somebody please define what constitutes a “luxury” condo vs. a normal condo? Is it hardwood floors and granite counters? Cheap appliances, but labeled with umlauts? Or is it the “luxury amenities” like a pool, fitness center, and clubhouse? Because last time I checked, those usually come standard on every apartment complex in flyover America. And most of those don’t have freeway ramps wrapped around them.
When I bought my first condo, it was a luxury condo because it had a washer/dryer in the unit. One thing to consider is that these new developments have the basics that most apartment include in other parts of the country. However, in other parts of the country the majority of available housing stock is not 100 year old or more as it is here. I would not call them luxury, but they are deluxe 🙂
Hey, in most of the third world, a freeway would be a luxury!
So these units are “wrapped in luxury features.”
“Hey, in most of the third world, a freeway would be a luxury!
So these units are “wrapped in luxury features.”
_________________
ROFL Tipster.
I wonder what floor you have to be on so you don’t get any street or freeway noise. Maybe 30?
(This would prolly sell at around 620–599 for sure.
I would hope at least)
ORH will never let this happen. There are TONS of units left to close that have a price of $850-1200/sq ft…
if ORH let one close at $600/sq ft then all the remaining people would refuse to close, bankrupting the firm (or at least causing signif. pain)
The seller “needs” the $850/sq ft to make him/her whole. If they can’t get it, they’ll just fail to close and lose their deposit and ORH will market the unit.
and I guarantee they won’t offer it for less than $850/sq ft… (regardless if there are any buyers or not)
what they MIGHT do is market it at $850/sq ft… let it close for $850/sq ft… but give the new buyer $50-100k of incentives… (like cash back, upgrades, free Mercedez lease or whatever)
this way the documented sale price looks good.
I said from the beginning this building was like the PETS.COM of the condo bubble. Feel sorry for the buyers…but pass the popcorn!!
True Ex-Sfter–thats why it’s best to just walk away.
$842 sq/ft for a 2-2 with basically every upgrade available and no, 20th floor is just fine to avoid noise.
Was up there last week right in the middle of the day during the week and it was whisper quiet.
C’mon, what else you got? I say pass the popcorn too because I’m a long-term player and I WILL make money on this condo in 5-7 years, or more.
RinconHill_Res, if you’re thinking long-term about making money on this condo, wait about a year or two and buy it at a steep discount, THEN you may be able to sell at a profit 5-7 years out. Buying now at peak prices that will only go down for the next couple years (likely way down) makes no sense at all.
Rinconhill res:) The typical pattern is that you experience about 2 years of substantial decline, then 3-5 years of things just being flat. Better for you to rent until prices stop dropping. Then go in. I think ORH is a great property especially on the higher floors but why not rent somewhere else where the neighborhood is already developed, then once you see 4 months or so where prices STOP going DOWN, then ya go in. Then 5-7 years from there, you can get some profits yes. Thats what im doing. i.e. don’t wait until people tell you its okay to buy, wait for the market to tell you.
For the record, I like this building. I think it’s a long-overdue addition in a neighborhood that’s been crying for gentrification and density. In a city that’s had a housing shortage for decades. I hope they build the second tower. Hell, I wish they’d build 5. And I’m sure new owners will be able to sell at a profit – eventually.
But if people think units here are worth over $1,000 per square foot (or that the second tower, if built, will be even more expensive)….then there’s some heavy cognitive dissonance at work. But as always, let’s let the market tell its own story.
Well, if $842/sq ft. gets you a nice 2/2 here (or at least “got” you a nice upgraded 2/2 sometime over the last two years or so), I think that these two craigslist should hold a little memorial service for their recently departed, though presumably much beloved, downpayments…. At least observe a respectful moment of silence.
I love the line in one of the listings: “[I] am not looking to make any money”. Ummm, well, good. The market is about to “accomodate” your wish – and then some!!
“what they MIGHT do is market it at $850/sq ft… let it close for $850/sq ft… but give the new buyer $50-100k of incentives… (like cash back, upgrades, free Mercedez lease or whatever)”
They better do that before the new appraisal standards kick in. Things will get tricky when appraisal is actually a valuation of the property and not a payment for a number.
“RinconHill_Res, if you’re thinking long-term about making money on this condo, wait about a year or two and buy it at a steep discount, THEN you may be able to sell at a profit 5-7 years out. Buying now at peak prices that will only go down for the next couple years (likely way down) makes no sense at all.”
If you knew what you were talking about at all, you wouldn’t be on this site, you’d be in the Caribbean somewhere enjoying your vast wealth derived from real estate short selling. The value will not go down any further from where I purchase it because I paid under $850 a square foot.
However, that said, I certainly acknowledge that the days of 1 to 2 year irrational value spikes are over, even in SF,FOR NOW, that is…please stay tuned.
I’ll send you my real estate sale schedule to Form 1040 in about 5-7 years and we’ll compare notes then.
The value will not go down any further from where I purchase it because I paid under $850 a square foot.
Oh puhleeze, no-one knows that. Perhaps it’s unlikely, but it’s certainly possible. Suppose, for example, that there are major construction defects found in the building, or there’s a lawsuit, or an earthquake, or you are forced to sell at a time when there are a lot of other comparable units for sale, etc, etc. Believe it or not, it IS possible to lose money in real estate–hard to believe, I know.
“The value will not go down any further from where I purchase it because I paid under $850 a square foot.”
Based on….what? There are quite a few “luxury” 2-bedrooms currently for sale in SOMA at $700 to $750 per square foot. Most in better locations than ORH. Check the listings at the Met, Portside, etc. But if you feel that confident about it, maybe you should extract your abundant equity via HELOC and double-down in the 2nd tower. Why wait 5-7 years to get rich?
“I thought people raved about how cheap these were? These aren’t that cheap. My Infinity treetop was $800/sq ft.”
Anon,
What’s the view from your Infinity treetops unit? Perhaps that explains the disparity?
“If you knew what you were talking about at all, you wouldn’t be on this site, you’d be in the Caribbean somewhere enjoying your vast wealth derived from real estate short selling. The value will not go down any further from where I purchase it because I paid under $850 a square foot.”
RinconHill_Res,
You are right, there are a number of really bitter renters on this site, many of whom somehow consider themselves experts at shorting real estate. Not sure what qualifies them as such. However, you have to give them credit – I’m amazed that they actually managed to get a phoneline into their trailer parks, so that they can log on to post their daily drivel.
I think your assessment of your 2/2 property’s value is accurate. Given that all of the remaining inventory [3%] is one bedrooms, these two individuals may have a difficult time catching a bid. As I’ve said before, the developer probably built too many one bedroom units in the building.
However, it’s worth noting that I have seen at least four 2/2 have been posted on Craigslist in this fashion. All were pulled after less than a week, with multiple parties calling within the first 12 hours of posting. How do I know? I was one of these callers. I know the unit I bought in this fashion had four “inquiries” in 4 days … fairly robust for a bear market. So, perhaps all of us [actual buyers] are suckers and the doomsday posters [alleged “experts” at real estate market timing] on SS are right, but I wouldn’t bet an entire dollar on that one 🙂
“The value will not go down any further from where I purchase it because I paid under $850 a square foot.”
Just to hop on the bandwagon, this is crazy thought. I just closed on a great 2 bedroom unit at the Infinity with an ok view for $750 a square foot. And, I’m extremly concerned it will lose value in the next 2-3 years. Luckely, I love it and it will be me home.
What’s the view from your Infinity treetops unit? Perhaps that explains the disparity?
You’re missing the point. $711K for a 1 bedroom two years ago isn’t “cheap” or “a great price” by any stretch of the imagination. Yeah, you’re buying the view, etc, but it’s not a steal.
Methinks you doth protest too much…
Tom,
What do you consider an “ok view”? The courtyard? Moreover, how high up are you?
Either way, sounds like a great price point. However, given that in January ’08 I was being quoted 1100+ per sq foot for 2/2 units at the Infinity that will be looking into the side of a building in the not too distant future, your neighbors that did pay the $1000+ rates aren’t going to be too thrilled with your find. Personally I’d say your downside is pretty limited at $750.
Congrats on your closing.
“Methinks you doth protest too much…”
Anon,
Methinks you avoided answering the question. So, what is your view? [attempt #2]
These units in SF are ultra-expensive, but one thing I can say with certainty, is they aren’t oversupplying the market in SF.
I live in Austin where we are building luxury condo towers on every corner of our downtown. Some are even priced as high as these buildings in SF and we are a much, much smaller metropolitan area with property taxes 3x as much as yours in CA.
Most of our towers are pricing out in the $500/sq ft range, but you still are looking at 3x the property tax here, so it is somewhat of a wash on a monthly cost basis.
I guess my point is, I don’t think oversupply will be a big issue in SF. Just maybe oversupply at a high price point could be the main issue.
Now, Austin probably has an oversupply problem.
The low floor unit has a view toward the East. Beep, beep!
@Recent ORH buyer
Main street. I like it. But who cares? Not sure what your point is. The ONLY think going for ORH is the view, so I guess you feel you have to convince everyone it’s important. I’ll take location, a good view, amenities, peace and quiet, and a nice, well-priced unit over a great view any day.
(oh, and yes, I know there’s a building going up there in a few years, so I’ll save you a post telling me so).
Do any ss regulars remember Darren from several months ago? Wasn’t he the first to back out of ORH contract, announcing it on this very sight?! Looking back he was ahead of his time.
“Main street. I like it. But who cares? Not sure what your point is. The ONLY think going for ORH is the view, so I guess you feel you have to convince everyone it’s important. I’ll take location, a good view, amenities, peace and quiet, and a nice, well-priced unit over a great view any day.”
(oh, and yes, I know there’s a building going up there in a few years, so I’ll save you a post telling me so).
Anon,
Youthinks who doth protest too much? Nothing further needs to be said.
I think you would have to hold one of these condos for 12-15 yrs to make money. There is very little chance ou will make money on a sale in 5 yrs.
Dear RinconHill_res,
If you knew what you were talking about at all, you wouldn’t have just sunk a truckload of cash into a condo unit at the very beginning of the biggest real estate bust the country has seen thereby instantly lowering your net worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, you’d be in the Caribbean somewhere enjoying your vast wealth derived from not being an idiot.
I know for a fact you can already get units in both Infinity & ORH at a significantly lower price than anyone a year or more ago got; on both the remaining units and the walkaways. (anyone noticed yet that we haven’t heard a peep out of a single person the supposedly picked up one of the ORH walkaways… you’d think if they were that into the building, they’d be looking at this site like the rest of us… weird, isn’t it? Perhaps ORH now makes you sign confidentiality agreements along with not letting anyone but you in for an inspection? [and yes, I know they reversed that… it’s a joke.])
So, I have a single family home totally detatched on a piece of land I own, and it is somehow worth less per square foot than something on the 20 or 30th floors of this tower built on landfill? Whatever….
15 have walked away from their contracts so far. Does reassigning contracts count as a walk-away?
The reason I’m asking is because I must have seen over 25 ads in Craigslist over the last 2 years looking to reassign their contract at ORH.
So if we add both walk-aways and those reassigning contracts, we could conceivably have 40-50 buyers drop out already and they just started closing.
Also, on craigslist I see a few shoppers (think bargain hunters) looking to take over contracts at ORH, probably at a significant discount. I guess they’re looking for desparate contract holders to low ball.
This could get ugly.
Smarty – what is your point? Is someone using your money to buy a unit at ORH? No? Then what difference does it make to you? Does your being just another bitter San Francisco renter make you NOT an idiot? People will spend their money how they see fit – if someone is truly happy about buying a place at ORH, Infinity, whatever, wherever, and looking forward to living there – then good for them. It’s not your money they are spending, and you are not going to be living there. Get over it.
“So, I have a single family home totally detatched on a piece of land I own, and it is somehow worth less per square foot than something on the 20 or 30th floors of this tower built on landfill? Whatever….”
Floristbecky,
The Infinity is built on landfill. One Rincon Hill [ORH] is built on the bedrock that anchors the Bay Bridge.
Evidently there are people that are willing to pay a premium to live in an urban area and [for example] walk to the Financial District every day versus driving [potentially great distances] from their detached piece of land. By the way, where is that detached piece of land … needless to say, that’s a key determinant of its value?
In addition, both the Infinity and ORH have high end finishings, so that always adds to the cost per square footage, as does the brand new construction and floor to ceiling [virtually] soundproof windows. I’m not saying that you are wrong about placing more value on your piece of land – you are entitled to your preferences. However, for a number of the aforementioned reasons, condos in the city will [generally] continue to have higher costs per square foot.
I love reading the readers’ comments because there are valuable information, insights and opinions contained within the periodic raving and ranting…and more importantly, they reminded me of the previous market booms and busts of the ’70s, ’80s and ’90s. Many of you were likely not in the real estate market back then but the amazing thing is – everything that is going on in the market today happened 10, 20 and 30 years ago except the scale and the risk is greater. I lived in a beautiful high rise condo in Pacific Heights and owned and rented out 2 additional condos in the vicinity (at a substantial negative cash flow) in the latter part of the 1970’s. Appreciation was great at 10-15% a year. We were smart, young, educated professionals very much like most of you and my wife and I figured at that rate, we could retire by the time we are in our 40’s. Well, we are way past that now and we haven’t gotten rich the way we thought we would. While we cannot time the exact occurrence, past history pretty much can predict what will happen for the future. Lets face it, we are in or heading into a recession and real estates are in a locked step with the general economy. Last significant real estate recession started around 1990 and did not get itself out of the rut till 1996 while the boom inflationary Carter years came to an end in 1980 when Reagan came to office and prime rate reached ? 21% and didn’t come around for 5 years. I took out one of the first adjustable rate loans in 1982 at a staggering 13.8% with a cap at 50% from Bank America! So we are just in the beginning of a 5-6 year cycle. If you are owning because you live and work in SF, then fine. Don’t even think there will be much chance for appreciation for a few years let alone making money as you will have to cough up that 6% commission upon selling. Most of you folks live in the City because you are young and without a family. That will change and your needs will change as we found out. Most simply don’t live in the same condo for 20 years. Just hope you don’t have to sell for whatever reason the next couple of years. We experienced the pain of watching all the gains and then the investment money vaporized just like the during the dot com bust. My wife and I are now looking to buy a second home in SF as we are the baby boomers that are coming home. But we have put on the brakes as we see better days (for buyers) ahead. We love the view but One Rincon Hill has trouble written all over it. I had a similar experience although on a smaller scale – when the real estate market tanked, all the “investor” bailed at the same time some more desperate then others driving down the comps. When sale failed, all became rentals units which drove the prices further down as the “pride of ownership” disappeared and banks refused to finance due to high percentage of rental units in the development. HOA essentially bankrupted from high delinquency. Stressed landlords / owners elected to pay mortages and deferred all other payments due to high negative cash flow. Repairs and maintenance were neglected. Even the rent started to decline as there were so many vacant unit fighting for qualified and later, even unqualified renters. Nightmarish ? absolutely. But just remember how giddy we were when our condo was spiking 15-20% a year. It’s the flipped side…
@GoodEarth
Thanks for the perspective. ORH won’t have that problem, however. People paid less than $850/sq ft and IT WILL NOT GO LOWER THAN THAT! You heard it here first 😉
@GoodEarth
What are your thoughts on The Infinity?
Anon,
You may be right about the published price but as a potential buyer, I am amazed at what the developers are considering giving up on the back end to get a sale done at the “list price”. I am not referring to ORH specifically but aside from the standard free upgrades and interest buy down, some are now very quietly offering payment of multiple years of HOA dues, property taxes, parking leases and naturally all closing costs including the SF city taxes. This amounts to 10-15% of the list price depending on the unit and I am concern with how that’s going to affect the resale of these units. One wild card many developers are already using is tapping the “foreign” market. Dollars is way down so is the real estate market. It makes perfect sense for foreign investor to buy in SF just like they have in Manhattan. So far, one of my realtor friends told me these foreign buyers are also holding out for lower price…
Hi Buyer,
I really like the Infinity. ORH’s view is spectacular but having lived in a high rise with a lovely view for years told me one’s brain learns to ignore the view after a while. I like Infinity’s location and proximity to the water front and financial district. ORH is a bit far to walk on a cold and rainy day. Now that’s just one man’s opinion. I am also a sucker for older building and I am quite fond of The Montgomery. The lack of parking is an issue as this will be my city home and I don’t plan to ride BART in every time. They are also very expensive per square foot. Dollar for dollar, the Infinity is very attractive and the tree top units work just fine for us. Just need to see what kind of pricing break I can get since I have no fixed time table.
Time to keep the Socketsite editor honest –
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/rfs/597624264.html
Posting reads as follows if link doesn’t work –
$600000 Brand New Condo (SOMA / south beach)
————————————————-
Reply to: hous-597624264@craigslist.org
Date: 2008-03-06, 11:45AM PST
Studio @ the new Infinity Building.
550 sq. feet.
Seller relocated, and does not want to lose deposit.
160 Folsom Street at Main
How about the aforementioned gem at the Infinity. Please, don’t all apply at once. That’s a STUDIO for $600,000. Well, it is a ‘cosy’ 550 sq. ft, which comes out to a cool $1090 per sq ft. Gee, I wonder why s/he suddenly “relocated” out of the building. So, Anon, what was it you were saying about the price differential between Infinity and ORH? Methinks you might have to eat your words, again!
By comparison, the following two at ORH are looking like a [relative] bargain –
“And if $711,000 ($850 a square foot) for the 20th floor isn’t to your liking, a “low floor” One Bedroom Deluxe with “an early April closing” is asking $665,000 ($795 a square foot).”
“Dollar for dollar, the Infinity is very attractive and the tree top units work just fine for us.”
Goodearth,
So, how’s the aforementioned 1090 per sq. ft price point at the Infinity sounding to you? Given your view on the building and its ‘affordability’, you may need to snap this one up right away.
You think it is bad now. Wait until the 2nd tower is underconstruction. The main reason I chose Infinity is by the time I move in the exterior of Tower 2 will be complete. I can’t imagine living next to a construction zone for 2 more years. This is just the tip of the iceburg. It will get very interesting to watch. ORH is the real estate market in the test tube and will be a good indicator of the breath and depth of the RE contraction.
GoodEarth,
Thanks, your comments are refreshing.
Ignorning Recent ORH buyer comments (he’s ranting again…), Infinity has sold many treetop units in the $700-800/sqft range.
For example, a 2 bedroom, ~1400sqft, 5th floor unit recently was on the market for $754/sqft.
Another 2 bed unit on the 4th or 5th floor was going for $710/sqft. I was very close to snapping up that unit a few months ago. But now I am waiting for the 2nd tower…
“You think it is bad now. Wait until the 2nd tower is underconstruction. The main reason I chose Infinity is by the time I move in the exterior of Tower 2 will be complete. I can’t imagine living next to a construction zone for 2 more years.”
Notsexy,
Well, you truly are a sucker. You forget that once the Infinity II Tower is finished, the same developer [Tishman Speyer I believe] will be building TWO TOWERS right across Main Street from the Infinity at 201 Folsom. So, estimating each tower at 2 years apiece, you are looking at FOUR YEARS with of construction right next to you.
So, if you bought at the Infinity hoping for no more construction, you lose!
Come what may in terms of the SF condo market [and none of the so called experts/bitter renters really knows for certain, nor to the smartest minds on Wall Street] all I know is that if I bought at ORH at $725 per sq. ft. [including a priceless view and finishings that we love] I like my chances of staying above water far more than the guy that paid $1090 per sq. ft at the Infinity.
Dear ORH Buyer,
No need to be defensive about ORH. It is and always will be sort of an odd building (or two) where it stands. Look on the bright side, it has fantastic view and I remember that’s what they said about the TransAmerican Pyramid but what an icon it is now…I understand the frustration of seeing your recently purchased home go down in value but so what? You live there, you enjoy the amenities and the view and you will get most of your money back when you sell it a few years later. What other things in life offers you that ? I loved my old Porsche but 4 years later when I traded it in for a new one, it was only worth dimes on the dollar. Worse yet, I cannot not trade the CMGi stock I bought for $200 a share back in 1999 for a cup of Starbucks coffee today. Now, if you are thinking about making money off your condo, eh that’s a different story all together…
Recent ORH buyer,
Your credibility is shot. Did you see my earlier posting? Most of the treetops are in the $700-800/sqft range. Go check yourself…
“For example, a 2 bedroom, ~1400sqft, 5th floor unit recently was on the market for $754/sqft.
Another 2 bed unit on the 4th or 5th floor was going for $710/sqft. I was very close to snapping up that unit a few months ago. But now I am waiting for the 2nd tower…”
“Your credibility is shot. Did you see my earlier posting? Most of the treetops are in the $700-800/sqft range. Go check yourself…”
Missionbayres,
You clearly are not very bright. With your postings you have simply reinforced a point I have made before about the downside of the Infinity’s bloated pricing structure. Given that large chunks of the Infinity remain unsold [allegedly just 16%, but given the Sales office tactics, that number may be optimistic] the fire sale has clearly commenced. Accordingly, the person in the Craigslist posting [who paid $1090] is seeing the $710/$754 fire sale and realizing the building is not worth what he thought it was. Others at the Infinity that paid top dollar [$1000+] … look out for the flames … your equity is evaporating by the second. According to previous postins on SS, people have paid upto $1300 for NE corner units … and they can’t be too happy right now. Even a developer with deep pockets has to cry ‘uncle’ and eventually and throw in the towel. Sounds like far better value to buy at the Infinity right now, but those that bought in 2007 and earlier … OUCH!
Goodearth – Your tales of woe about ORH are largely misplaced. With just 3% remaining inventory at ORH, and lower pricing from the start, the downside cannot possible be as bad as the price compression that Missionbayres kindly highlighted at the Infinity.
@Recent ORH buyer
I know it’s tough when people tell you your baby is ugly, but what’s the point in all the name calling? You’re sounding awfully defensive. The market will ultimately decide things, like it usually does. You’ve pretty much lost whatever credibility you had with your incessant ranting.
Recent ORH buyer,
What sales tactics are you accusing Infinity of? Can you provided specifics that can be backed up with solid evidence?? It’s strange, because you are the only one criticizing them.
And if I’m not mistaken, isn’t the ORH sales office the one that originally wanted to bar agents and inspectors from the building? Now if that’s not an illegal tactic, I don’t know what is. I know they finally changed, but that was due to a near revolt from the buyers. How they thought they could get away with that is unbelievable.
Those pricing I mentioned are for the *TREETOPS*. And those pricing are from 2007, not now. Did you not read?
Infinity currently has 3 buildings, but I never mentioned the tower. Those that paid $1000/sqft are in the tower with views.
And so far, ONLY 1 PERSON WALKED AWAY FROM THEIR CONTRACT. ORH HAS 15 AND COUNTING, plus many, many ads in Craigslist from desperate contract holders.
Recent ORH buyer, why are so many people running away from ORH??
And if Infinity’s prices are so bloating, why aren’t more people running away??
If you can answer these questions without ranting, it would be much appreciated 🙂
Also, I’m not dumb and Notsexy is not a sucker. Can you stop with the personal attacks?
Thank you.
p.s. One of the top floor penthouses at Infinity just closed. I see lights at night, and looks like they’re slowly moving in furniture…
Treetops at Infinity are not being quoted accurately. I was recently quoted prices by the sales office for 2 BR units still remaining prices from $1000/sqft – $1200/sqft. Has anyone else been in recently and acquired pricing?
Don’t know about 2 bdrms, but there are (were) some large treetop 1 bdrms under $900/sq ft recently.
“Treetops at Infinity are not being quoted accurately. I was recently quoted prices by the sales office for 2 BR units still remaining prices from $1000/sqft – $1200/sqft. Has anyone else been in recently and acquired pricing?”
Well that’s good. In 2006-2007, many 2 bedrooms could be had for $700-800/sqft. Looks like those are now gone.
I don’t know if they can get $1000/sqft for treetops now, unless they are the corner units with the large private terraces (which were always in the $1000/sqft range).
My my, how double standards and empty rhethoric reign supreme –
Missionbayres – apparently I hurt you feelings by saying you weren’t very bright … “dumb” was the word you chose … that’s on you. Still you are happy to post – “Ignorning Recent ORH buyer comments (he’s ranting again…)” and “your credibility is shot” but are suddenly offended when someone sticks it right back at you? Seemingly you are okay dishing it out but can’t handle getting it back.
I’ve check all of your posts in this thread, nowhere have you mentioned that the $710/$754 was a 2007 price. If I missed it, please show me where. Besides, Tom posted this yesterday, so my point remains intact –
“I just closed on a great 2 bedroom unit at the Infinity with an ok view for $750 a square foot. And, I’m extremly concerned it will lose value in the next 2-3 years.”
Moreover, I was never quoted those prices when I went in the Infinity Sales office – the merry-go-round of appearing and disappearing inventory and variable pricing are exactly the practices I am referring to. I can document both times I was at the Infinity Sales offices [early 2007 when on 5 units were supposedly “all that is left” and Jan. 2008 when 14, including 12 in a single stack were available] and will raise my right hand in court to attest that all the experiences I have had there [and described on this site] are exactly as they happened.
Again repeating myself – if 15 contracts have walkaways and all but 3 have been filled, at higher priced resales [which, by all accounts, has been the case] that is POSITIVE for current residents. A 2/2 unit resold on my floor [same config, lesser city view] at $90K more than I bought mine … that’s a specific, tangible instance of a walkaway being ‘filled’ at a higher price.
In terms of the walkaways, there may well be several people that were ‘unsuitable’ buyers to start with, and now with credit standards tightening, are unable to finance/consumate their transactions. Again, it’s better for the building to clear out all those types of buyers and replace them [ideally all of them] with more solid creditors. Lending standards have changed dramatically over the past 2 years, wouldn’t you agree?
Infinity is closing the top floors first, [I believe] so I’m guessing these may be parties where borrowing is less of an issue. however, as we get lower down, the scenario my change. ORH started with the lower units.
Well, Notsexy says the key reason he didn’t buy at ORH was 2 years of construction [Tower II] but instead bought at the Infinity were he will likley face 4 years of nearby construction [201 Folsom]. I’m sorry, if one doesn’t call that a sucker, what term would you use?
So Anon, and Missionbayres, you guys are long on complaints and short on substance. So, answer this – which would you rather buy – the 600k STUDIO at the Infinity [at $1090 per sq ft.] or either of the ONE BEDROOM units that SocketSite has ‘showcased’ here at $795 and $850 per sq. ft? Now be honest …
Infinity is closing the top floors first, [I believe] so I’m guessing these may be parties where borrowing is less of an issue. however, as we get lower down, the scenario my change. ORH started with the lower units.
Not really. I think the Infinity is closing all over. We’re here and in a low floor.
So Anon, and Missionbayres, you guys are long on complaints and short on substance. So, answer this – which would you rather buy – the 600k STUDIO at the Infinity [at $1090 per sq ft.] or either of the ONE BEDROOM units that SocketSite has ‘showcased’ here at $795 and $850 per sq. ft? Now be honest …
At the time I bought my unit at the Infinity, there was a 1 bdrm at ORH (I believe it was a city view on the 17th floor) for less. But I liked the Infinity (and hated ORH’s location). Honestly, I wouldn’t want the 600K stuido OR either of the ORH units. Not sure what that proves.
Recent ORH buyer, your last post has some very good points about the Infinity that I totally agree with. Unfortunately, I think your optimism for your own investment is causing you to turn a blind eye to the reality of your own new home. There is some serious fall out going on at the top of that hill. And even despite the bailing investors, ORH wouldn’t hold its value as well as Infinity – regardless of its height. It’s just not a classic building. I don’t think its a bad building – I’m sure living there will be fun. But it’s missing a great deal of the lasting style that the Infinity has.
Recent ORH buyer,
San Francisco, one block from a muni metro line walking distance to West Portal. 2336 Sq. Ft. From where I was raised this is Urban. But you are right it is a preference. I just prefer to live in a house without a committee telling me what to do. I think there’s room for many different forms of housing. Enjoy your new home.
Wow Recent ORH buyer, I’m really tired.
It’s unfortunate you only want to see your side. On more than one occasion folks on this blog (with good intentions) had given you constructive criticism. And as many has also mentioned, you like to turn a blind eye and call them names.
Anon mentioned earlier, “I know it’s tough when people tell you your baby is ugly”, so I understand your very defensive positioning. It’s normal human instinct.
It’s fine, I dont’ take anything personally. Good luck with your investment. I’m sorry there’s so much bad news with One Rincon. Your defense of the building is quite commendable. As they say, the captain always goes go down with a sinking ship…
p.s. Infinity is closing on all floors as well as building C (the Main St treetop). So still only 1 person walked. That’s a pretty good number for any development…
Smarty,
Fair enough, I respect your opinion. As people have said, the Transamerica doesn’t have a classic look and was roundly criticized when first built. People say the same about ORH … how it is ultimately judged remains to be seen.
However, I do get tired of the ORH bashing, and it’s often absurd and non-objective, and does tend to be posted by Infinity owners and bitter renters. However, I am aware that the building is not without its shortcomings [location/parking] but am trying to present a more ‘balanced’ view in terms of its comparison to the Infinity.
Having recently had a look at the Infinity I had the same experience as Buyer, in Jan 2008 –
“I was recently quoted prices by the sales office for 2 BR units still remaining prices from $1000/sqft – $1200/sqft. Has anyone else been in recently and acquired pricing?”
Others have received different quotes according to their postings here [not sure if that’s legal] but that further left a bad taste in my mouth about the place.
Neither building is perfect, but on a net/net basis, for the price point [in my view] ORH was a winner hands down.
Also Recent ORH buyer,
Regarding your fixation with that single Infinity studio, if you check current and past sales of studios in highrises in South Beach/Mission Bay, you’ll see most studio do sell in the neighborhood of $1000/sqft. 400sqft for 400k – doesn’t sound bad, but for the square footage, is quite expensive.
Honestly, I wouldn’t buy that studio, but I wouldn’t buy any studio in any city unless it was strictly a second home.
Wow, you really know the market is really getting bad when the ORH buyers and the Infinity buyers are turning on each other like a pack of starving wild dogs. I don’t want to sound mean, but this is just kind of amusing.
Socketsite makes a good point:
“If the average price per square foot in the building is up 11 percent over the past 18 months to $1,004 (as per the developer), and the majority units from which buyers have walked away from their deposits have been resold at a premium (as per the sales office), then why aren’t these two contract holders touting a little “instant equity?”
I see 7 ads in craigslist by ORH contract holders. Non are selling higher than their purchase price. The market speaks and seems there is no appreciation or more people would tout “instant equity”.
Or better yet, they would close rather than give up their contract or walk away.
Obviously, something is right at Infinity or they would have more cancellations. Again, the market speaks.
We really won’t know the real price buyers paid these day as each deal is negotiated on a case by case, unit by unit basis. In order not to upset those already closed and buyers in contract, many developments balk at cutting prices. Some are actually raising prices to create a sense of urgency for the potential buyers. I have been offered some very creative discounts that supposedly is a win-win arrangement for all parties and was seriously asked (but no non-disclosure agreement LOL) not to discuss the details with anyone. Think many of the higher quoted prices are just the “asking” prices and can be seriously negotiated. At any rate, enjoy all your new homes – I am envious of all of you in a beautiful new condo be it ORH or Infinity. San Francisco financial district and the north part of SOMA is where I want to be. I am not even looking at stodgy Pacific Heights or Russian Hill where I have called home for years…
I wasn’t going to say anything, but I am aware of a few select units that are quietly being shopped to potential buyers. The original buyers walked away and while they are not on the market officially they are available. The sales release and move in date for tower 2 has also been pushed back. Infinity is being managed very carefully in order to protect the investment of the buyers currently in place. If nothing else the developers seem to be very savvy and are carefully playing the market.
“You think it is bad now. Wait until the 2nd tower is underconstruction. The main reason I chose Infinity is by the time I move in the exterior of Tower 2 will be complete. I can’t imagine living next to a construction zone for 2 more years.”
Notsexy,
Well, you truly are a sucker. You forget that once the Infinity II Tower is finished, the same developer [Tishman Speyer I believe] will be building TWO TOWERS right across Main Street from the Infinity at 201 Folsom. So, estimating each tower at 2 years apiece, you are looking at FOUR YEARS with of construction right next to you.”
Recent ORH buyer,
Did you forget about not only Rincon II (which hasn’t broken ground yet), but also the Turnberry tower (again, construction not started), and the Fremont St towers (which is still in flux). So you can make an argument that Rincon Hill will be a huge construction zone for years and years.
I’m actually looking forward to the whole Folsom corridor project, which would include the new towers across the street.
missionbayre, you mentioned that you are waiting for tower II of Infinity. What do you expect the pricing on those units to be, or more to the point, how much are you willing/going to pay psf? Thx.
I did a little homework based on yesterday’s postings and had the following observations –
The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment probihits the government from discriminating against all citizens on the basis of race, gender, national origin or sexual orientation. The commerce clause applies the 14th Amendment to all private entities. Accordingly, as most of you know, no private business can discriminate on the basis of race, gender, national origin or sexual orientation.
Ok, so what is my point? In a posting by ‘Buyer’ yesterday, s/he said the following –
“I was recently quoted prices by the sales office for 2 BR units still remaining prices from $1000/sqft – $1200/sqft. Has anyone else been in recently and acquired pricing?”
This is exactly the experience I had at the Infinity in terms of Tower pricing … although on my most recent visit I was offered a ‘Treetops’ unit, with a lovely view of the Post Office parking lot and Main Street for around $950 per Sq. Ft. My fiance and I were there in early 2007 and January 2008 and can document both visits.
However Missionbayres, whom I learned last night has a far closer affiliation with the Infinity than he chooses to declare, stated the following –
“For example, a 2 bedroom, ~1400sqft, 5th floor unit recently was on the market for $754/sqft.
Another 2 bed unit on the 4th or 5th floor was going for $710/sqft. I was very close to snapping up that unit a few months ago. But now I am waiting for the 2nd tower…”
Missionbayres also insisted that this pricing was valid throughout 2007, as below –
“Those pricing I mentioned are for the *TREETOPS*. And those pricing are from 2007, not now. Did you not read?”
So that brings up some very troubling questions –
From his posting, ‘Buyer’ was at the sales office and told there are no 2/2 remaining outside the $1000-1200 price range. Moreover, we were there in early 2007 and Jan 2008 and were given very similar information. So, my question is, if there are units available at the $710/$754 range, and this was the case throught 2007, why were Buyer and myself never offered those units? Were we the victims of illegal discrimatination based on race, gender, national origin or sexual orientation? If Missionbayres information is accurate, that may well be the case. Accordingly, one of two scenarios appears to be at play –
1) The Infinity Sales office is engaging in illegal discrimination when it comes to pricing.
2) There is infact a fire sale, where units are now being sold off at $710/$754, something that was not the case when myself and ‘Buyer’ went there earlier this year and in 2007.
Accordingly, I have the following suggestions for people that visit the Infinity sales office –
i) Don’t be alarmed if it’s just you there and about 6-8 sales agents. Traffic there is very slow, so expect to be lonely.
ii) When quoted a price on any unit, don’t just rely on their oral representations, make sure you get a WRITTEN copy of the pricings for EACH unit offered.
iii) Don’t believe the nonsense about “there’s no more units left” – apparently 25% remaining inventory is closer to the actual number … 16% remaining may have been spread around to boost morale. I would try asking if you can get one of the ‘fire sale’ units at $710/$754 and see what happens.
I’d love to hear the feedback from those with written quotations. It may help to get to the bottom of whether there are forbidden practises occuring there, or simply a fire sale to unload inventory.
@Recent ORH buyer
You’re beginning to sound obsessed!
I was in the sales office a couple of weeks ago and saw the listings. I agree, they should just lay it all out there for you to see, but whatever.
Anyway, those treetop units are about $850/sq ft, I believe there are 2 left. Not sure about the other available units.
Sure, anyone can (and should) walk in an try to bargain. I don’t think much of the good stuff is left. In any case, as someone mentioned, Tishman Speyer is carefully managing the inventory (or “playing games” if you wish). They have pretty deep pockets are are probably going to be able to ride out any downturn.
The charge about discrimination is pretty serious (and ludicrous). Are you suggesting that they gave you a high price because they didn’t want you there?
“The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment probihits the government from discriminating against all citizens on the basis of race, gender, national origin or sexual orientation. The commerce clause applies the 14th Amendment to all private entities.”
Ummm, time to hit the books again….. This is all wrong (not surprising). No reason to go into a big discussion here – just pointing this out to anyone who might be inclined to believe that this analysis – while plausible SOUNDING – might be accurate. It’s not. In really broad brush, the 14th amendment only applies to state governments (or entities acting like states – again, a little complex here for the nonlawyers so I won’t go into it but you can be sure I know what I am talking about….) Basically, NOTHING in the Constitution (at least insofar as what we are talking about here) applies directly to “private entities” EXCEPT the provisions against slavery in the 13th Amendment. And, of course, the 14th amendment does not apply to the Fed government (most of the “protections” of the 14th however have been “read into” the 5th Amendment due process provisions by foolish activist judges, but that’s a different topic).
But Recent ORH buyer brings up an important point regarding discrimination even if his/her source thinking is wrong (if you care, look into the Fair Housing and similare STATE statutes and coordinate protections under the STATE constitution). When dealing with sales staff at ORH or other places I would echo the idea that WRITTEN info should be obtained.
This is NOT legal advice. Get your own counsel, who can advise you regarding your specific circumstances. That being said, I would like to offer the following informed OPINION regarding the information that I gather is often provided by the sales staff (e.g., # of walkaways, whether the units are actually being sold “above” the walkaway price, etc.). In one of the other threads, Trip suggested that lying by the sales staff might constitute fraud (fraud in the inducement for those of you in the know) and might allow getting out of contracts later. That’s obviously true in practice, but difficult to prove in fact.
I would suggest that prospective buyers include language ON THAT WRITTEN SHEET suggested by Recent ORH buyer to the effect that (i) the ORH staff “acknowledges and understands” that the buyer is “relying” on the information provided in making his or her purchase, (ii) that the selling developer acknowledges that the “completeness” and “truthfulness” of the provided information is “material” to the buyer’s decision to enter into a purchase agreement, should the buyer choose to do so, and (iii) that no other information regarding the subject matter of the written sheet should be provided so as to the information provided “not misleading”. Again, don’t rely on a random blogger, and GET YOUR OWN COUNSEL, but if you actually obtain such a signed acknowledgement (good luck!! these developers are slimy as snakes!) AND you later get cold feet you will make your future lawyer’s job infinitely easier.
Again, that being said, try that approach if you are trying to figure out the “true” state of affairs, and watch the sales staff scamper and squirm!
“The charge about discrimination is pretty serious (and ludicrous).”
Anon,
This is where reading comprehension becomes very important. I simply asked some fairly legitimate QUESTIONS, based on the facts. If you read it again, not a single “charge” has been made – I’m simply trying to figure out what’s really going on over there … either way, something appears to smell fishy, wouldn’t you agree?
“‘Playing games'” with inventory/pricing [as you put it] doesn’t seem like it would treat all parties fairly … if so, that may not be an acceptable practise as I understand equal protection?
Satchel,
Thanks for clarifying … my bad. However, I would imagine [as you stated] that fair housing or other state statutes have similar equal protection type language that prohibit private entities from discriminatory practices?
Recent ORH buyer –
I’m sure they do! But that is geting a little far from my expertise, and I am too lazy to do any research…..
But all state discrimination-type statutes that I’ve seen get into all sorts of analyses regarding what are the “protected” classes and whether you are actually being discriminated on the basis of that characteristic. Tricky questions of fact. (That’s why to get around them, all a landlord has to do is to advertise a “stupid” high price on craigslist, and when someone who is the wrong race/sex/gender shows up, say, “See? They wouldn’t pay the advertised price!” Of course, when someone with the right characteristics shows up, “suddenly” the real price is 25% lower!)
My suggested approach – based on your idea of written info – is IMO a reasonable way of getting developers to “tell the truth”, and one which is based on rock-solid ideas of contract law. The key is asking the right questions of course…. And getting them to sign it (not going to happen :)).
Jeez, Recent ORH buyer, why are you wasting your time? You don’t like the Infinity, you’ve bought at ORH. Don’t worry, be happy! Either that or contact the DA or a lawyer or something. I’ll bet there’s no great conspiracy here, just a typical transaction where the buyer tries to get more for less and the seller tries to give less for more.
@Satchel,
That kind of overlawyering may work if you’re purchasing a multimillion dollar property, but the players putting up these buildings are pretty sophisticated (with a lot of resources)–they’d probably tell you to take a walk. Worth a try I guess, but it seems to me the only people who win with this kind of tactic are the lawyers. Besides, among all the mounds of paperwork you sign are things like the floor plans and square footage being approximations, with no warranty….
@ anon – agreeing on this one. None of these people are going to get their 3% deposits back. Have been through this before – trust me. They have their own attorneys that help them put the purchase contracts together.
“You’re beginning to sound obsessed!”
Anon,
I think I have becomed obsessed for a little while now. Trying to cut back 🙂
Movingback,
You may be right when it comes to getting back ones deposits. My only suggestion, given my personal experiences at the Infinity, plus the prices posted here, is to obtain WRITTEN price quotes from the Infinity sales office as opposed to oral representations. This [I believe] is more likely to keep them consistent/honest, which is as it should be.
Recent ORH buyer,
Those pricing at Infinity may have been available at some point, but if someone reserved a unit in say April 30th, and you walk in May 1th, well that unit is no longer available. I’m not sure where the conspiracy is. The lower priced units are usually the first to go.
You really expect units and pricing to remain the same throughout the year? Duh.
And I’m curious why you are so obsessed with Infinity and it’s sales team? You already bought at Rincon and seem happy with it. Let it go. It’s fine you defend Rincon, and as someone mentioned, its commendable. But I find it amusing, yet a little concern over your state of mind. You’ve spent what, hours on your posting?
Go do something nice this weekend, go get a life and enjoy it. You’ll be happier and live longer.
Off topic, but has anyone seen the pics of a Rincon Hill apartment in the Bay section of the Chronicle?
All of the Rincon bashing is unfounded in terms of a place to live. That kind of dramatic space does not come cheap. It was pretty nice, granted it was a corner unit, but still an amazing looking place.
Is it just me, or does everyone else find themselves interpreting all Recent ORH buyers ramblings as “blah blah blah… God how I wish I had bought at the Infinity rather than ORH… blah blah blah”?
Recent ORH buyer, you said:
“So, my question is, if there are units available at the $710/$754 range, and this was the case throught 2007, why were Buyer and myself never offered those units?”
Through 2007? Huh?
So tell me this, if One Rincon had a few units at $750/sqft in 2006. Should they be offering those same pricing throughout 2006? Doesn’t make sense. As soon as someone grabs those $750/sqft units, they are gone. They won’t show those same units again to other buyers. Does this make sense Recent ORH buyer?
And I concur with others. What’s with the obsession with Infinity’s sales team? Let it go, it’s not worth it….
Ahem…sorry to interject…but it’s Friday already. Where’s our much-anticipated update on the second tower? Today’s Chronicle has an article on ORH saying that construction has been delayed til the summer, but doesn’t give any details or reasons.
It’s not just ORH – here’s another one at the Infinity, seemingly the top floor of the ‘Treetops’, given the address and description. It prices at $1007 per sq. ft.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/rfs/598694439.html
As I have said, lending standards will affect both ORH and the Infinity, particularly buyers that stretched themselves at the outset.
“…an article on ORH saying that construction has been delayed til the summer, but doesn’t give any details or reasons.”
My guess is a combination of cash flow plus difficulty in acquiring a bridge loan to fund the construction start plus downward adjusted sales forecasts.
… just a guess
Per SFGate article:
“One Rincon will be finished by summer’s end, and a second tower, this one 52 stories – 541 feet high – will start going up by May or June.”
What happen to January?
Anytime there’s a delay, it’s bad news. And we all know by now, unless they break ground and start construction, the start date is fluid. June becomes August, August turns into October, etc…
Let’s hope they start this year or the whole site will remain in limbo.
I would imagine that the second tower will be slowed, but not necessarily stopped (not sure why not building the second tower is a bad thing, it actually seems more of a positive to me).
I’ve noticed that some projects go into slow mode. For example, look at SF Blu, they seem to be taking forever to finish (the sales office was supposed to open in Fall ’07). The St. Regis took forever to finish too. I guess the cost of the construction loans is less than the cost of coming onto market and flopping.
I am a renter, so I do not take sides between One Rincon and Infinity, or between any two developments. I can honestly say though, after reading this string and another related one, that I would pick Infinity hands-down in the end. Why you might ask? Because I wouldn’t want to run the 1 in 400 risk that the ranting and irrational “Recent ORH buyer” might be my neighbor across the hall . . .
notsobitterrenter a.k.a Infinity Sales Office,
You guys had almost all day, and that’s the best you could come up with? Seriously? With that lack of creativity, you guys are never going to move that that remaining 25% of inventory.
Is that a phone ringing I hear … perhaps the ACLU on line 2?
uh, re the last posting – case closed, proves my point (as if it needed proof once again)
Yikes!
Recent ORH buyer,
Seriously, not sure what is it with Infinity that’s captured your attention to near insanity 🙂
It’s like you’re infactuated with the neighborhood girl, you like to tease her, make snide remarks, and make irrational comments to her. But deep inside you have a deep affection for her, an overwhelming sense of emotion bordering on Love. Scary is it not?
Sorry Recent ORH buyer, but looks like you’re turning into the butt of all jokes on this blog.
Recent ORH buyer,
I agree with notsobitterrenter, I’m starting to fear you. Luckily I don’t live at One Rincon. hehehe…
Having said that, thanks for the week of entertainment. You’re many pages of rants made my week. Have a peaceful weekend…
My goodness there is a ton of whining on this site. Major diaper alert. Although Recent ORH does need to brush up on his Constitutional Law, he/she does raise some valid concerns about the Infinity. I would think people won’t jerk you around if you insist on a quote in writing. According to Anon there isn’t much good stuff left [troubling if 25% of the building qualifies as unappealing] so does anyone know when Tower 2 sales are planned? Any feedback would be great. Also I hear that a temporary bus station will be built diagonally across from the Infinity at Folsom and Main while the Transbay is being built. Doesn’t that mean it will be there for several years? If so, won’t unit prices be impacted, given that the Greyhound station does attract most appealing crowd? Anyone know? Thanks.
Tower 2 sales will start in the late summer/early fall (at least Infinity *will have tower 2 sales*).
And if anyone noticed, tower 2 just topped off last week.
Yes, the temporary bus station will be located there. We’ll need that if we want the new Transbay Terminal so we have to view it in the grand scheme of things and take some short term pain. Once the new terminal is constructed and the Folsom Blvd corridor is developed, it’s going to be a sweet neighborhood to live in.
Good Morning Infinity P.R. team … how are you this fine Monday morning? I hope you enjoyed the lovely weekend weather and are charged up for another entertaining week. However, it will be a shorter one for me, as I’ll be be out of town and offline from around mid-week. However, I’m sure you will have fun playing with yourselves. Anonysf may already be doing that … easy on those fantasies about the neighborhood girl … if that keeps getting worse, do consult professional help. Sorry, I couldn’t resist 🙂
Alright, back to work. I do agree that as Folsom Street develops into Folsom Boulevard, it will be a huge positive for ORH, the Infinity and the neighborhood as a whole. However, what Infinity Buyer describes as “short term pain” may not quite be so short term when one considers condo buying cycles. The Transbay Terminal will be great, but at 80 stories [still the plan?] this could take several years from start to finish … with the City managing the project, it could be as many as five years. So, that could mean a two-fold whammy for the Folsom/Main intersection –
First – Greater traffic/congestion particularly at peak periods. Let’s face it, when the Giants are playing and it’s rush hour, there’s a chance the bus traffic could create some seriously scary gridlock right outside the Infinity.
Second, as where2buy mentions, will the same crowd that hangs out around the Greyhound Bus station move to the new ‘temporary’ bus area. Can’t say I’ll miss that smell of weed as I walk past them to work on a daily basis.
So, what’s the official P.R. propaganda on the aforementioned?
All this banter, I must provide my opinion.
I’ve at least toured the Infinity showroom but it’s not the type of project for my lifestyle.
However, as for One Rincon…
The building is architecturally disgusting, at least in terms of city skyline, and I would never consider living there regardless of location, interiors or amenities. Whenever I see the building, which unfortunately is often considering it’s individual height, I wonder how SF ever could allow this monstrosity.
In other words, for me I would be really, really embarrassed to live there.
First – Greater traffic/congestion particularly at peak periods. Let’s face it, when the Giants are playing and it’s rush hour, there’s a chance the bus traffic could create some seriously scary gridlock right outside the Infinity.
Yeah, it’s possible that the traffic near the Infinity could be as bad for a while as the traffic outside of ORH! OMG! (Actually, the current bus traffic out of the existing TBT isn’t that bad, as far I can tell).
Also, the new TBT isn’t “80 stories tall.” There are plans for tall buildings near the terminal paid for by [private developers).
In any case, Recent ORH buyer, I’m not going to feed the troll anymore, you’re getting tiresome.
Good Morning One Rincon P.R. team … how are you this fine Monday morning? I hope you enjoyed the lovely weekend weather and are charged up for another entertaining week. However, it will be a shorter one for me, as I’ll be be out of town and offline from around mid-week. However, I’m sure you will have fun playing with yourselves. Recent ORH buyer may already be doing that … easy on those fantasies about the neighborhood girl … if that keeps getting worse, do consult professional help. Sorry, I couldn’t resist 🙂
Also Recent ORH buyer, as part of the One Rincon P.R. team, you forgot to mention that the One Rincon project is imploding as we speak:
https://socketsite.com/archives/2008/03/the_straight_scoop_on_whats_up_with_one_rincon_hills_to.html#comments
Seems like we should start calling One Rincon, 1/2 Rincon or 0.5 Rincon.
And with Turnberry, Rincon 2, Fremont st towers, all in limbo, look like Rincon Hill could be under massive construction for 5 years as well.
So One Rincon P.R. team, a.k.a. Recent ORH buyer, looke like you’re in the same boat…
Ah, good to see the Infinity team is paying attention. Well done! 🙂
Anon,
The “feed the troll” comment is no way to talk about your significant other, even if s/he has been packing on the pounds. I think a retraction is necessary.
On a seperate subject, given your unit overlooking Main Street, I figured you would be perfect as the Socketsite construction reporter for 201 Folsom. In addition, perhaps we can make you the reporter for the ‘temporary’ bus station traffic report, as it’s right next to you. Furthermore, given that the quality crowd from the Greyhound bus station will likely migrate to the new station, you could provide a ‘dealer’ update. Now I’m not advocating illegal drug use by anyone, but perhaps there are some people that may want to score some weed on the side. You might consider it an additional ‘concierge’ service for the building, guiding them towards the right guy. So, are you game? 🙂
Missionbayres,
My my, you are awfully defensive for an impartial rich investor ‘considering Tower 2’ at the Infinity. What was it, homes in SF, Las Vegas and Fremont … what, no Ibiza and Monaco? You remind me of Kramer [from Seinfeld] pretending to be Pennypacker, ‘the wealthy industrialist’, on a couple of episodes. Clearly, you are no more legitimate than Pennypacker. I for one am stunned, I really thought you were for real. I’m so disappointed!
Fair amount of misinformation on the link you provided – this extract by “re investor” gets to the heart of it. Bovis doesn’t appear to have performed upto par on Tower 1, so the contract is being bid out for Tower 2. That’s simply the long and short of it –
The developer “is CBRE Investors, the private equity/opportunistic investment advisor with $37 Billion under managment and is an independent affiliate of CBRE (NYSE:CBG). Word on the street is CBRE Investors is unhappy with Bovis’ performance on the north tower, and consequently is bidding the south tower out. The material costs volatility mention is probably just the gentlemanly way to not say that they are canning Bovis.
Don’t be too certain about the developer needing a construction loan to start this project. Many institutional equity advisors are going with 100% equity in this economic environment and will leverage projects later when/if the credit markets stabilize.”
Monaco? oh no. Too snotty. I’d much rather consider a lovely cottage near the medieval town of Eze overlooking the Cote d’Azur. Now that is paradise!
Or how about St Tropez? One of the most beautiful sights in the world when the sun is setting:
http://france-for-visitors.com/images/large/saint_tropez.jpg
Now you have me thinking of the 3 weeks I spent in the south of France in spring of 06. Ahhh… the memories!
Anyways One Rincon P.R. team, a.k.a. Recent ORH buyer, what is the reason the developer is unhappy with Bovis’ performance on the first tower? Is it construction defects? Is it cheap materials?
All this bad news is probably not sitting well with Rincon buyers/contract holders (is the canary chirping yet?).
Millennium/Infinity/Ritz buyers are probably kicking back, enjoying all this drama unfold in front of them.
Missionbayres,
A web photo from “france-for-visitors.com” and I’m suddenly supposed to believe you are actually a wealthy real estate investor? Are you that naive? You are as phony as a three dollar bill and could use some work with this P.R. stint as well. For the record, although I’m no Pennypacker, my favorites for sunsets are Byblos [small town in Lebanon with thousands of years of history and source of the word Bible] and Santorini, the Greek island. I’m a big fan of sunrises and sunsets, hence our 03 unit purchase at ORH where we get to see both. The sunsets over Twin Peaks can be fairly impressive … it’s too bad the ones at the Infinity with be closed off by 201 Folsom.
Fair question about Bovis – I’ll have to pry further at the next ORH social. Although our finishings were fine, I know others have had units that were not up to par. Photos have been posted on Socketsite as evidence of that. Clearly the variability in unit finishings has been an issue but that’s the extent of my insight on the matter.
Recent ORH buyer,
Where in my previous postings have I said I was a “wealthy real estate investor”. Can you please show me?
Also, did you really think I was going to post my vacation photos on Flickr to you? Are you that naive?
No offense, but you sound dangerous and a bit unstable so I rather remain anonymous 🙂
Also, I’d like to ask you (nicely) why you are so angry that you have constantly attack posters personally?? I really, really like to know. Most people here attacks the topics.
I’m very curious as to where all your anger originates from??
And I’m not just talking about attacking me personally (I actually don’t care), but why attacks so many other posters on this site as well? Why not just go after the topics??
Recent ORH buyer, don’t you think that attacking people personally reduces your credibility? I’m curious too why you do that, and how old are you?
You bought at one rincon. Just be happy with your purchase. By the sounds of your comments, you don’t sound very happy with your life.
Recent ORH buyer,
You have some good points, but it’s the way you write your postings that rub so many people the wrong way. Do you want people to think all One rincon residence behave this way?
Have you ever thought of taking a web etiquette class (some call it netiquette)? Here’s a good site:
http://www.albion.com/netiquette/
I expecially like the phrase:
“Adhere to the same standards of behavior online that you follow in real life”.
People will respect you much more if you post without irrational rants and/or personal attacks.
Ok I’m going to hide now before you bombast me 😉
“Where in my previous postings have I said I was a “wealthy real estate investor”. Can you please show me?”
Missionbayres,
Are you saying that you post so much drivel, you don’t really remember what you said? Sounds about right. You have said before that you owned property in Las Vegas, SF, Fremont and one other place – I distinctly remember that, Pennypacker. If you would like me to completely shatter your non-existent credibility, I will find it.
Socketsite editor [Adam] – Can you do a search by Missionbayres’ posts over the past two weeks for the aforementioned … it shouldn’t take long to find it?
Anon and Missionbayres – you Infinity P.R. folks amaze me – it’s okay for you to create bogus pro-Infinity [and largely anti-ORH] propaganda on this blog, but when someone calls you on it [or tears you to shreads] suddenly you are crying “mommy, make it stop”. I’m not phased by your nonsense/name calling and will continue to point out people planting false information under false identities, like yourselves.
Infinity buyer,
If you are honestly a unit owner at the Infinity, I have no issues with someone’s opinion about their home, even if mine may differ from their opinion. The “bombast” comes out when completely slanted and largely false information is planted by the aforementioned buffoons … otherwise I’m actually surprizingly civil in my day to day life 🙂
Folks, PLEASE DON’T FEED THE TROLL!
Anon,
Again, you can’t call your significant other a “troll” just because s/he’s put on a few pounds. That’s really bad form – you really need a netiquette class.
Socketsite editor – the google search functions does work pretty well. Once again, Missionbayres is shown to be as phony as the $20 Rolex he wears on his wrist.
“Where in my previous postings have I said I was a “wealthy real estate investor”. Can you please show me?”
Read it and weep, Pennypacker –
“I’ve been investing in RE since 2001 and have had properties in Las Vegas, Fremont, SF, and the peninsula. I live in SF now and think Infinity is a nice project and will probably buy in the 2nd building.
Posted by: missionbayres at February 27, 2008 5:12 PM”
This is the same guy that allegedly loves the sunsets in St. Tropez, but will tout the Infinity 2 Tower to no end, even though the lovely Twin Peaks sunsets will be blocked off by 201 Folsom. I can’t even make this stuff up.
Currently on CL there are 9 people trying to bail out of ORH, vs. 1 for the Infinity
I’d say the market is speaking.
“I’ve been investing in RE since 2001 and have had properties in Las Vegas, Fremont, SF, and the peninsula. I live in SF now and think Infinity is a nice project and will probably buy in the 2nd building.”
Wow Recent ORH buyer (aka Rincon Sales Office) , you’re really, really… really into this, aren’t you? 😉
Anyways, again I ask you (maybe you should read more carefully this time), where in this blog did I say I was a “wealthy real estate investor”?? Please show me.
Heck, I could’ve lost tens or hundreds of thousands in my investments. Heck, I could be homeless. Then again I could be a lottery winner. Hehehe….
You seem obsessed by 201 Folsom. Of course parts of people’s views will be blocked. There’s no secret there. I feel sorry for the folks that will buy the west facing units at Millennium. They will be completely blocked by the Pelli building. Why don’t you talk more about that Recent ORH buyer?
I know your sunset views won’t be blocked. But how many people’s views at One Rincon will be blocked by the Turnberry building, the Fremont towers, and Rincon 2. Whoops I forgot, Rincon 2 imploded. Sorry…
zzzzzzz,
I actually see 11 people trying to sell at Rincon vs 1 for Infinity.
Now what’s that I hear? I hear, I hear… The market speaking! 😉
Anon, it’s ok to feed the troll. Honestly, I haven’t had this much fun in a long time 🙂
“I’ve been investing in RE since 2001 and have had properties in Las Vegas, Fremont, SF, and the peninsula … where in this blog did I say I was a “wealthy real estate investor” … Heck, I could be homeless”
Missionbayres a.k.a. Pennypacker [perhaps Phonypacker is more apt]
It’s the same old mindless logic, but I do enjoy repeatedly exposing your buffonery. Of course, we all know tons of “homeless” people that have owned multiple homes .. yeah, that makes sense. Bunch of them around the Greyhound Bus station … I see them everyday, taking about how they lost money on four properties, and now look at where they are. Again, can’t make it up.
Speaking about the Greyhound bus people, rumor has it that they are preparing for the pilgrimage to the new “temporary” bus station right opposite the Infinity. Just a hunch, but I assume they will bring their daily habits of peeing, defacating, drug use et al. with them. Who knows, they might even make their way accross the street and ‘deposit’ their daily habits all over the Infinity courtyard. Now, that’s not the Courtyard view the $1000 per sq. ft owners had in mind. I wonder how that might affect the remaining Infinity inventory … it should be interesting 🙂
Okay Phonypacker, it’s time for your pre-school class. The sun rises in the EAST and sets in the WEST. The Fremont Towers [albeit a few hundred yards down Rincon Hill on Fremont St.] are to the NORTH. Relative to ORH I, the second tower will be to the NORTH-EAST. Accordingly, unless the sun rises and sets differently where you live, neither building will affect either sunrise or sunset. The Turnberry will affect north-west views for some at ORH, although it is set back somewhat behind the gas station on 1st and Harrison, so the impact may not be quite as severe.
For a change, your point about the Pelli building impeding views at the Millenium is valid. We always thought that area was too ‘crowded’ with buildings, which is one reason we never considered it.
Recent ORH buyer, AKA Troll or One Rincon P.R. team,
Anon said to you:
“don’t you think that attacking people personally reduces your credibility? I’m curious too why you do that, and how old are you?”
infinity buyer said to you:
“People will respect you much more if you post without irrational rants and/or personal attacks.”
I’m still curious why you like to personally attack people and not the topics or subjects in hand? Would you like to answer the question (nicely)?? Or did you run out of valid points to attack the topics?
p.s. you can attack me all you want. words for just that, words… it’s like a irritating fly buzzing around, can do absolutely no harm. Hehehe….
One more desperate buyer at ORH trying to get out:
Fully loaded with options… hardwood floors, upgraded kitchen bathroom, etc…
Stunning bay views…
Assume my contract at no additional cost.
Serious applicants please contact me asap. Please include your phone number.
Carl
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/rfs/603105329.html
Guess he doesn’t read SS–otherwise he’d know what a deal he got 😉
“Assume my contract at no additional cost”
What? No touting ‘instant 150k equity’?
Oh wait, I meant ‘instant 150k devaluation’.
Craigslist now has 15 One Rincon sellers vs. 1 for Infinity, an increase of 4 since yesterday. It’s a leak now, but how long before the dam breaks?
It’s interesting. One seller is willing to take an 8k loss on his deposit. And a lot of sellers are touting they reserved during the first week of release (or even at the pre-release party). I would think most of these sellers reserved months AFTER the pre-release party when prices were much higher, but that’s not the case. These are day 1, or week 1 sellers! Here’s two:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/rfs/602134093.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/rfs/599031904.html
I guess there really is no appreciation at One Rincon, or we wouldn’t see these people selling at cost with no markup at all.
It’s very disconcerting.
Another day, another seller trying to bail out:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/rfs/603360440.html
This is getting a little scary. But what I find even stranger is that the sales office at ORH is letting this happen. You’d think they’d do everything they could to keep this under wraps and quietly shop the units themselves. It’s very bad PR.
What happen to our wonderful name calling, One Rincon PR guy (AKA Recent ORH buyer)?
I miss his irrational rants already. Oh well, I guess even he can’t put a positive twist on what’s happening on Craigslist. Seems like a lot of desparate sellers out there and probably going to get worse..
Was out of town for the past week and stayed away from a computer, but I’m so glad I was missed 🙂
I’ll keep it civil – let’s do a little math here, using approximate numbers as I don’t have exact figures.
ORH has around 360 units in the Tower. About 3% remains unsold accordinging to the Sales Office, or around 11 units. Let’s assume they are underestimating the unsold units, and let’s say it’s actually 5%, or 18 units unsold. So, I’m looking at the facts UNFAVORABLY for ORH. Apparently there are 15 Craigslist ads with people ‘bailing out’ at ORH. Let’s assume ALL of those units fall through and an extra 15 units have to be sold by the Sales office. Again, this would be the MOST UNFAVORABLE SCENARIO that is assumed. That means 18, plus 15 means 33 units would be available. 33 is less than 10% ‘available’ units, relative to the total of 360.
Let’s turn to the Infinity. Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that the 1 unit won’t go into default. With tower 1 and the ‘treetops’ units, I’m estimating there are around 300 units. They have 25% UNSOLD INVENTORY which means there are 75 ‘available’ units. That well over twice what ORH has [33 units] even if one assumes the WORST CASE scenario for ORH. Even if you believe the Infinity’s recent claim that ONLY 16% inventory remains, that’s still 48 open units, or about 50% more than ORH, assuming all factors heavily against ORH.
Accordingly, if I paid $1000-$1300 per sq ft. at the Infinity, and as the ‘temporary’ bus station and the quality element set up shop accross the street, who has greater need to worry? The Craigslist ads are definitely bad publicity, but the reality of the situation at the Infinity is clearly far more dire.