Okay, so these home sites aren’t in San Francisco but they do tout “Panoramic Views of the San Francisco Skyline” by way of Brisbane (of course “stunning” is subjective). And do keep in mind the list price of $529,000 each doesn’t include the cost of actually constructing the homes (which have yet to be built).
Renderings and permitted designs (pdf) for two 3,000 square foot homes (4/2.5) by Anderson Anderson Architecture. And if we’re lucky, a ballpark budget and timeline for construction by a plugged-in reader (or two) in the know.
∙ Listing: 462 and 466 Kings Road Lots, Brisbane – $529,000/lot [kingsroadlots.com]
Love these, have seen them advertized and love the propsect for an Anderson Anderson house in the bay area, I have been a big fan since I first saw their work in Dwell (back when it was starting out)
I’ve been following these for a while. 529K for a lot and then a 600K build, bare minimum, for Brisbane isn’t going to pencil in for too many people.
Fluj, pretty much agree with you. Also jugding from the amount of responses on the thread today (just you and me) these are not ‘hits’.
I love how response volume on socketsite can almost be used as a barometer of interest. I have made the comment previously re: Arterra (SF unloved ‘green’ building), love plugged-in folks!
the thing about Brisbane is that it’s closer to downtown than noe Valley is and, the site does have a better, completely unobstructed – yes, panoramic – view of the City + the bay (see the photos in linked site) – i’d say better than the Oakland Hills, Sausalito or San Rafael.
As these are my lots, i’m curious what a knowledgable crowd such as this feels the value of the lots might be and what value might you place on the plans by AA Architecture?
somethng that is difficult to communicate in the offering is the incredible construction design of these houses – all steel + glass – and the construction method which is both green, precise + fast-to-build (approx 6 months to complete).
back to y’all
“Close” is relative. Noe Valley folks can walk to the J or even the BART. You mean being able to jump on the freeway and exiting onto a downtown off ramp in six or seven minutes. There’s definitely something to that.
I like Brisbane a lot. I think it’s got to be a good longterm buy. One of my clients rented there. He was looking to buy, and we scouted the area thoroughly about six months ago.
You are running into a scenario in which only an end user is going to wish to purchase these properties. It’s too risky for a developer because at $1.1 to $1.3 for Brisbane you’re out ahead of the curve. People aren’t particularly knowledgeable as to what Brisbane offers. The prosepect of throwing 500 to 600K at a lot over there? Probably daunting.
If you kept the whole projected figure down under a million I bet people would jump at it. Just my own educated guess. That probably makes no fiscal sense for you, tho.
No offense, but Brisbane is not Noe Valley. Noe Valley is one of the hottest place for families to live, whom also work in the city. Sausalito is one of the hottest place to live, whom work in the city, and are originally from warmer climates, such as LA/Orange County. I am in sales, not RE sales, whom all of my customers make $250,000-$1,000,000+. Most of them have kids and work in San Francisco. They all want to live in Noe Valley, because of the great family atmosphere (sooo many families), convenience to the city (Brisbane is not the same as hopping on the Muni or Bart–you feel removed from the city), and the beautiful neighborhood itselft (restaurants, shops, etc.). I would agree that you probably have amazing views at this property, but you are right next to that freeway, which I find quite disgusting (I would never recommend any of my clients to live in Brisbane, unless they work in S. San Francisco, or SV). If SF puts in a high speed train from that area into the city (people will feel more connected, the traffic up 101 into the city is horrendous!), then I think Brisbane becomes an attractive view. There are also so many deals occuring in Potrero Hill right now due to market prices declining. PH is very sunny, closer to the city, and also has many families. (Your property obviously requires a family). I do like all of the garage spots, though, wonderful architecture, and sounds like great construction. I agree with Fluj that you need to find a way to do it cheaper, because you never want to enter the high end, especially if the market is declining.
i’ve seen many of AA’s designs and think they have a really good modern sensibility. they push convention without crossing the scary avant garde line.
however there are a couple issues with this project. one the idea of having permitted plans. is this permitted with building or just planning? permits for building generally have time limitations. and often times can only be renewed once. so someone would have to jump on it.
the other issue is construction cost. even with a modular system or creative off site system it’s gonna be tough getting something built under $300/sf. just my experience. you’ve got a sloped lot with plenty of foundation concerns and no one is gonna cheap out on the finishes inside on this one. so you’re probably looking at 750-900k.
the only positive is that it is getting nearly impossible to build anything like that in SF. Planning here is taking forever and neighborhoods are fighting the “modern” degradation of the beloved victorian.
my 2 cents.
ScubaK,
Not sure if I took your meaning right but I haven’t seen Potrero Hill decline. Especially the north side. It’s one of the few areas in town that isn’t even debatable. YoY, Potrero Hill was higher in every category ’07 to ’06. Even for condos. It’s up across the board. It’s just that fewer condos were for sale in ’07. Potrero Hill condos sold 17 days faster on average ’07 to ’06! The problem over there is inventory. There is very little turnover, and what goes on sale is usually a fixer or else on the south side, near the projects, or all three.
Your lot value up there in Brisbane can’t be much more than $400K to max half a mil, with RH1 lots in the City going at around $600~$700 in top areas of Noe and Pac Heights. The architects’ fee and the actual value of plans sold with the property are probably two different things, because every single client will choose to design things differently, and will very likely want to alter the plans from what is currently designed, so take the fees you paid AA and lop off maybe 50% to get the actual sale value of the plans. With the plans fully approved and entitled with construction permits in hand, you might attract a developer who could possibly be interested in it as a project, but of course, they will need a profit margin at the back end…..Good luck!!
“…i’m curious what a knowledgable crowd such as this feels the value of the lots might be and what value might you place on the plans by AA Architecture?”
Not to be too snarky, but as the “experts” that are getting paid aren’t these questions the Droubi Team should be able to answer?
Hi Again,
thank you all for your coments – good ones all.
let me say that i am not comparing the lifestyle of Noe Valley with Brisbane – very different indeed. Brisbane does not offer the more urban, walkability of Noe while Noe does not offer the nearly frontier-like refuge of our lots. in fact, virtually no other house within sight will ever be built above the lots as it is a butterfly refuge protected by the Coastal Commission. Good little hiking trails right out the front door, too.
Regarding commuter access, there is a train station just at the base of Brisbane which takes less than 10 minutes into the city @ 4th st – no high speed required.
And the highway is quite a distance from the lot + so visually small as not to be much more than a night time light show which you’d have to be at the window to even see.
This does not portend to be a greatly profitable spec opportunity but it does pencil in for an exceptionally designed + built house to live in, with radiant heating, beautiful finishes, etc. etc. @ the overall sq ft cost of an o.k. condo or rather crappy low end fixer in S.F. – around $500 all in.
i guess it’s all a choice…
“around $500 all in”
At 3,000 sq ft that’s $1.5M. If the lot is $500K that puts the expected cost to build at $1M per house. Does that assume both are built at the same time?
Lorn: For whatever reason it sounds like you’re trying to justify the price rather than looking for real feedback. Great design BTW.
I’ve seen these lots advertised for a while now, and after seeing it pop up on Socket Site, I was motivated to go give the place a look today. Long time (15 years) SOMA resident (designed/built my own place there) I had to go see Brisbane for the first time.
First it is interesting that they don’t mention Brisbane in the marketing materials at all, as if they are hiding something. Second, the renderings are the only thing catchy about it. After driving through Brisbane, which I found to be pretty cool, and somewhat old-school, reminds me of Point Richmond in many ways…I came upon the lots. The views are nice from up there, but it is what it is…there is literally NOTHING close to minimalist or ‘real’ modern anywhere in this neighborhood. Pretty basic stuff on a one lane road, making it hard to deal with oncoming traffic. So even if the price was right, I’m not sure it would work. Seems out of place for what’s up there.
I think this developer would be much better off with a finished product to sell. Great plans + this plot still leaves a lot to the imagination for this area whether you’re a design savvy developer, or an average or above average home buyer interested in something of good design.
Yes, the $500 figure is based on building the 2 at once – an estimated 10-15% savings.
And, yes, i am looking for honest feedback and also feel that there are opportunities to tell a bit more about the project which, given that we justify the cost of something by the “features” it offers, may come across as justification. thank you for your openess – all of you.
Oh, and Brisbane’s a funky little town for sure, with a slowly growing inventory of more interesting houses , and not for everyone
Cheers