400%20Beale%202106.jpg
Sometimes we just like the view (or perhaps photo). Just don’t forget about that second One Rincon Hill tower that’s slated to sprout from in the lower left-hand third of this frame. Or the proposed Turnberry tower up the street. Or The Californian across the street. Or perhaps even 340 Fremont a little to the right.
Now if only we could find a good photoshopper with some spare time on his (or her) hands…
∙ Listing: 400 Beale Street #2106 (2/1.5) – $1,025,000 [MLS]
One Rincon Hill: An Unofficial Update On The Timing Of The Two Towers [SocketSite]
Out With The Old: 45 Lansing And The Lot Around Watermark [SocketSite]
True Luxury Condos At 45 Lansing? [SocketSite]
The Californian on Rincon Hill (375 Fremont): Website And Renderings [SocketSite]
New Developments: 340 – 350 Fremont [SocketSite]

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Comments from “Plugged-In” Readers

  1. Posted by SFhighrise

    For me, these towers are not being built quickly enough. I dream of the day that we see the 2nd One Rincon tower, 45 Lansing, The Californian and 340 Fremont all sprouting up from this view.
    [Editor’s Note: You beat us to it (although we’ve now updated our post accordingly) and we couldn’t agree more (we do love our urban views).]

  2. Posted by Paul Hwang

    2nd Tower be damned! Regardless his is an excellent and striking image.

  3. Posted by ex SF-er

    I agree with Paul, what a GORGEOUS picture! My o my…
    what time of day was that taken, and from where?

  4. Posted by ex SF-er

    duh… 400 Beale… Me are so smart

  5. Posted by missionbayres

    Nice quiet picture. Is it dawn?
    Much better than the bumper to bumper traffic we see going up Harrison in the afternoons and evenings…

  6. Posted by Observer

    It is amazing what a multitude of sins a nice picture can hide, the new towers and promised park in the Caltrans parking area can’t come fast enough for this unit, because the reality today on the ground west of 400 Beale is pretty sad.
    Good unit with realistic pricing and at the risk of joining the chours, great pics.
    Any word on comps for this building and similar floors.

  7. Posted by RinconHill_Res

    Potentially blocked views (even from around the 20th floor), was something to into serious consideration when looking at units at both Infinity and ORH. The Infinity residents will have more of an issue with blocked view than ORH residents if you assume that the twin towers to be built on what is now the post office parking lot are actually built. Fortunately, however, the park that is supposed to replace what are now terrible ugly eyesore parking lots with bus ramps running over them, will provide a nice buffer against any blockage for those residents in the Infinity that face toward downtown (even on low floors).

  8. Posted by missionbay res

    OneRincon will have spectacular views, no doubt about that. But views are only one of the equation when choosing a property. It’s true the area west of 400 Beale is pretty bad (and scary at night).
    I’d personally would much rather go with a better location with good views, than a bad location with great views.
    Infinity is not located on a hill so obviously the views won’t be as high as OneRincon. But I still believe the waterfront location, proximity to established businesses, new restaurants, Ferry building, and the upcoming Folsom corridor projects makes Infinity a fabulous place to live…

  9. Posted by RinconHill_Res

    “I’d personally would much rather go with a better location with good views, than a bad location with great views.
    Infinity is not located on a hill so obviously the views won’t be as high as OneRincon.”
    No argument with this statement, but it sort of depends on whether you’re an instant gratification person or a longer term person. However, if you’re saying that the location will always be bad relative to Infinity, no matter what happens to the neighborhood, then I would disagree with that statement.
    If you’re saying the Infinity location is better, I would certainly agree, but everything comes at a cost, and that’s why the Infinity thinks that it can ask more for its condos than ORH. Don’t know if the theory will become reality, but it’s certainly grounded in principles of real estate economics.

  10. Posted by tharpo

    @ Missionbay: The area west of 400 Beale is scary at night? Um, why? Because it’s quiet? I live east of here and think nothing of walking through this neighborhood late at night, and have done it alone hundreds of times. There isn’t much foot traffic, but there isn’t much foot traffic in the FiDi either and no one feels unsafe there at night. Or maybe you do. = )

  11. Posted by Miles

    Great photoshop job, but the view will never look like that, even now. That is some long exposure night photography trickery mixed with photoshopping to make the sky electric blue, the streets glow yellow, and the purple haze over the horizon. It’s kind of like the study Fuji did years ago showing that people prefer photos that are more color saturated than the colors are in reality and hence they invented a film for that purpose (Velvia). Best seller for them, BTW.

  12. Posted by ex SF-er

    Miles:
    it does go to show you how important pics can be though.
    I’ve ssen some articles that show that the #1 thing you can do to sell your home in a “tough” market is to get it online and to have LOTS of GREAT pictures.
    many people (like me) look online before deciding to get in my car and drive all over Timbuktu.
    These pics make me want to go check that place out (even though I personally would never want to live in that area!)
    Internet pictures = the new “curb appeal”

  13. Posted by view lover

    The pics really do make a difference. While a friend of mine was looking for a place last year, he looked at a listing with really bad pics. I asked why bother. It turned out to be a great place and I ended up buying it at what I believe was underpriced within 3 days of it hitting the market.

  14. Posted by djn

    Looks like a HDRI photo but not a particularly great one. Type HDR in flickr and you’ll see what an SLR digital camera can do.

  15. Posted by missionbay res

    “The area west of 400 Beale is scary at night? Um, why? Because it’s quiet? I live east of here and think nothing of walking through this neighborhood late at night, and have done it alone hundreds of times. There isn’t much foot traffic…”
    Maybe scary isn’t the right word, but I’ve walked west on Harrison a couple times with female friends at night and they’ve commented the area underneath the overpasses on Harrison as well as on 2nd are a little frightening (and these are city residents). For me personally that area is a little decrepit with the homeless that sleep there, the chainlink fences, and urine smell….

  16. Posted by SFhighrise

    The “decrepit” areas aren’t great, but they won’t be like that for long.
    The homeless shelter on Harrison/Fremont will be demolished shortly. It was supposed to have been demolished already to make way for The Californian, but that project has been delayed by about a year, due to the slow housing market.
    The overpasses and current transbay terminal will be demolished in the summer of 2009, in preparation for construction of the new transbay terminal.
    I’d say that within 2 years, the area won’t seem “scary”.

  17. Posted by Alexander Ho

    I’m with you guys, the pics are amazing…it looks like they were taken at twilight. And the staging looks great as well; it must have been professionally done by an interior designer. Have any of you guys checked out the unit?

  18. Posted by tipster

    What is this, ONE BLOCK from Infinity? That’s supposed to be a bad neighborhood. Oh you guys are nuts.
    One block from Infinity. High floor. Views. Mature building with all the kinks worked out and reasonable HOA. A real parking space. $849psf.
    Nothing to dislike about any of that.

  19. Posted by not sexy

    2 words. small windows. I always felt clastrophobic at the building looking out of small windows. Overpriced by 100k in this market with fickle buyers.

  20. Posted by blahhh

    “If you’re saying the Infinity location is better, I would certainly agree, but everything comes at a cost, and that’s why the Infinity thinks that it can ask more for its condos than ORH. Don’t know if the theory will become reality, but it’s certainly grounded in principles of real estate economics.”
    I think 1Rincon’s location will eventually improve tremendously after all the other towers get built. It will take a long time, but once you move enough people into the area Rincon hill will start to feel like a neighborhood. People will walk the streets and stores will open. Bridgeview residents will certainly benefit from it. However, like missionbay res said the Infinity’s location is already great being waterfront and closer to businesses, and with what’s been planned for the Folsom St it will be the most sought after location to live at near downtown.
    But when you talk about the spread between two developments’ prices, location is not the only reason why the Infinity has been selling for much higher prices. Infinity is pricier simply because it’s a much more expensive complex to begin with. Most people don’t realize the fact that the Infinity’s total budget is $580mil while 1Rincon’s budget is only $290mil. That $290mil difference doesn’t just turn into air. Some of it is in the location, some of it is in the parking spaces, and some of it is in the complexity of design. I think the fact that each complex is offering very different things at different price levels is great for the buyers.

  21. Posted by rincon

    blahhh
    Where did you find the 580MM price tag for Infinity? I couldn’t find any source to verify that. The Millennium has stated 400MM, so I’m wondering if 580MM is for both towers? If that number is correct for the first tower alone, that is amazing. Any possible explanation for such a huge different in cost?

  22. Posted by missionbayres

    OneRincon’s total budget is around $420 million for the whole complex (both towers and townhomes). Blahhh was close. The first tower, townhomes and parking structure will cost $270 million.
    Infinity’s total is $580 million (again for both towers and treetops). I saw it either in SFGate or SF Biz Times a while back.
    It’s interesting that Infinity (37 and 42 stories with 650 units) will cost $160 MILLION more than OneRincon (58 and 45 stories and 695 units).
    It’s probably a combination of location, quality and design that explains the discrepancy between the two, but it’s odd the difference is so large especially with OneRincon having 45 more units.
    But again, I’m neither an architect nor developer so maybe there’s more to it that I know…

  23. Posted by missionbayres

    correction: OneRincon’s total budget is $435 million so the difference is $145 million.

  24. Posted by james

    i would argue that it’s going to be a difference in quality of building. i know the developer of one rincon. they do not spend money they don’t have to.

  25. Posted by anon2

    Could the developer of One Rincon really save over 100 million dollars by not providing exhaust vents for clothes dryers? Who knew!

  26. Posted by blahhh

    Thanks for the correction, missionbay res. Both numbers originally given to me are for each development’s entire project. I was quite surprised when I first saw the difference. Then I confirmed the numbers through different sources. I was also told recently during a casual meeting that 1Rincon’s total cost will rest somewhere below $400mil. Guess that cost has gone up a bit since the beginning. Either that or 1Rincon inflated their profit a little. Also, the Infinity’s total cost will run higher than the announced $580mil as improvements and changes have been made along the way, especially for the 2nd tower. It’ll probably be somewhere from $600mil to $630mil eventually.
    Location still seems to be the most influential factor to prices, design and probably view come second. Those units that have them all are receiving high premium. For example, Infinity’s high floor 3bd units with water view were sold for around $3.5mil while 1Rincon’s penthouse 3bd view units were selling for around $2.5mil. So far the market has responded accordingly. Let’s see if the price differences get stretched further or not for the second towers.

  27. Posted by blahhh

    “The Millennium has stated 400MM”
    The consensus for the actual budget right now is $340mil for the Millennium. But ultimately the cost may run a lot higher.
    “i would argue that it’s going to be a difference in quality of building. i know the developer of one rincon. they do not spend money they don’t have to.”
    As a matter of fact, 1Rincon has been wasting tons of money on things they shouldn’t have such as explosive marketing, which only generates return on the investment for the developer rather than the buyers. All that money went into heavy advertising including the $5mil-dollar-sales office is kind of backfiring right now. Tishman Speyer, on the other hand, was perhaps too confident since the beginning. They simply said with their nose up that they didn’t need to spend money on marketing at all. Wrong. That’s why you don’t see them hosting fancy parties, giving out pretty brochures and so forth. But eventually they had to budge a little, I heard they finally started giving out water in branded bottles, hehe. Believe it or not, lots of buyers actually requested it as “free” souvenirs.

  28. Posted by Soma Guy

    Not Sexy: you say
    “2 words. small windows. I always felt clastrophobic at the building looking out of small windows. Overpriced by 100k in this market with fickle buyers.”
    What unit were you in in this building? I have not seen this one but was in the one above it, same floor plan. The windows take up 50% of the wall and extend the entire length of the unit. There’s almost more window then there is wall. They are much bigger than (the non full length) windows in The Met or 201 Harrison, they’re closer to Brannan’s size.
    And 100K overpriced? Compared to What? The waterviews in Fresno? A smaller unit with waterviews on the same floor went for 20K MORE. Where else can you get a waterview for $840 per sq ft? Not at 1 Rincon, Not at Infinity, Not at The Met. Also, I agree with tipster—it’s an established building wiith the kinks worked out unlike some of those others.
    Have you seen the other 2 bedroom in this bldg currently on the market with city views–no water. It’s the same sq ftg and was priced at 999K, so the waterview can be had at a 2.5% premium? That’s an excellent deal—which is probably why the city view unit lowered their price after this one came on the market.

  29. Posted by Miles

    I think we’ve been through this before, but when a developer quotes their costs, you have to know what they are including in the number to make it meaningful. The components of a development costs are: land, hard costs, soft costs, holding costs, and selling costs. And then there is the issue of profit, which some developer’s include as a base line item in the budget, and some leave out. I really doubt that these developers are going to give you a detailed breakdown of all their costs as this is going to let you estimate their profit which is going to erode their bargaining position during sellout, not to mention it’s going to weaken their competitive position with other developments. But hey, if you think that the numbers they are quoting you are apples to apples comparisons (that is, the number each developer is quoting includes all of the same costs across the board), well, knock yourself out.

  30. Posted by not sexy

    somaguy.
    the market will speak for itself. also this unit only has 1.5 baths. maybe with 2 full baths would the pricing inline. good luck.
    btw, the windows at the brannan are much larger.

  31. Posted by blahhh

    “I think we’ve been through this before, but when a developer quotes their costs, you have to know what they are including in the number to make it meaningful…. But hey, if you think that the numbers they are quoting you are apples to apples comparisons (that is, the number each developer is quoting includes all of the same costs across the board), well, knock yourself out.”
    We are not talking about a $30mil difference in quoted budgets. When a smaller development rests a budget $200mil or so higher than another development with 7% more units, that means just that: one project is substantially more costly than the other. It probably also means one complex will sell for much higher than the other, which in this case has been proven true by the market.

  32. Posted by grrrr

    Blahhh — you continue to spout misinformation and/or blatant lies everytime you post, no matter what development you talk about (One rincon Hill,The Palms, other Mission Bay) — esp. when compared to The Infinity. Infinity’s marketing budget is easily wayyyyyyy more than that One Rincon Hill’s. Their ad buy — probably 10x more. The promo with Dwell $75000.

  33. Posted by missionbayres

    “Infinity’s marketing budget is easily wayyyyyyy more than that One Rincon Hill’s. Their ad buy — probably 10x more. The promo with Dwell $75000.”
    I believe the 75k Dwell promo will go towards the decoration of the model homes. Those models will be open to the public in the first tower next year. I believe Infinity will designate a whole floor for their models in anticipation of opening sales for the 2nd tower.
    When that happens, Infinity will most likely shut down their current sales office and move everything into the tower.

  34. Posted by blahhh

    grrr,
    My secret fan of perjury, thanks for displaying such a rare example of cyber integrity and your profound knowledge. I feel *truly* mortified by your educated guess and creative reasoning of the Infinity’s marketing budget as proof of me lying once again. Having lied in “every post I make”, I must say you are right: the Infinity must have run a marketing budget “easily wayyyyyy more” AND “probably 10x more” than 1Rincon since we have the mighty $75k design competition as evidence. I’m sure you know very well the $75k is for the winning concept’s actual construction budget. And you must’ve indisputably realized that the $75k is infinitesimal to either project’s overall marketing spending. I’m afraid the only thing you need to humbly admit, other than that I’m full of s**t, is that socketsite’s readers are far beyond just you and me. Some people actually can and in fact have verified the information I’ve shared and found them helpful.
    You are quite special. Behind each word of your drive-by wisdom and honesty, I sense a sweet little boy/girl’s fantasy to pop out as the one who makes our world a better place, even if it means you have to talk about things you have no knowledge of. Keep up the hard work and I’ll have my pop corn ready. There are a lot more lies where they come from. Millennium tower is opening doors on 11/8. I’m ready to roll, and you are invited to call me out with your sources of info.
    (Disclosure: I’m a liar who lies about “every post I make”, this disclosure included.)

  35. Posted by blahhh

    Just noticed that my deceptive nature took over again, it should’ve been “easily wayyyyyyy more” with 7 “y”s.
    Now grrr can have the rest of the thread. :)

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