August 3, 2007

A Few New Incentives For Both Buyers And Brokers In San Francisco

From a tipster: “On Wednesday, August 8, visit the Heritage on Fillmore to discover how to get your clients 2 years paid HOA Dues or $11,000 toward upgrades with the purchase of a new home [deals must be written by September 30, 2007]. And when you help your clients you'll also help yourself. The Heritage is now offering a 3.5% broker co-op!"

And yet another: “170 Off Third is excited to offer a 5.625% interest rate on all remaining two-bedroom residences! [Interest rate based on 7/1 ARM Interest Only and is fixed for seven years.]”

We’ll let you decide what they’re worth (to you). And what they mean (for the market).

Heritage On Fillmore Official Update: Inventory And Restaurants [SocketSite]
Odeon And 170 Off Third: A “Plugged In” Buyer’s Perspective [SocketSite]

First Published: August 3, 2007 9:06 AM

Comments from "Plugged In" Readers

Also from the land of faulty logic (in my opinion) is the experience I have with a particular BofA teller every time I visit to make an extra principal only payment on my mortgage - she asks me about taking a home equity loan. Ummm.... yeah.... I just brought in some extra cash to pay off debt, and I don't think that really gels with borrowing more money at a higher rate. Thanks. Strange days....

Posted by: Jamie at August 3, 2007 11:22 AM

In general, do HOA fees include your insurance and property taxes? Or do you pay for those on your own?

Posted by: gfw at August 3, 2007 11:55 AM

"In general, do HOA fees include your insurance and property taxes?"

Yes to insurance on the building, no to property taxes.

Posted by: Michael at August 3, 2007 12:03 PM

@Jamie - as you probably know, they have to do that.

Banks make alot of money on those loans; it's probably the only reason that teller still has a job. Tellers are basically marketing agents for the bank's products.

And since you have extra cash lying around, and presumably some real house equity, you'll probably be able to get one, even in a seized-up debt market ;)

Posted by: dub dub at August 3, 2007 12:24 PM

I like the fact that Heritage is advertising in this week's Onion with a pitch along the lines of, "Hey renters! Tired of paying $2500 a month towards your landlord's BMW for a crappy 1BR with no deck or parking? Come pay just a little more than that a month for a 1BR in our condo!" That's more or less verbatim.

Posted by: David at August 3, 2007 1:42 PM

After this week's mortgage turmoils, I wonder whether they can still make good on that 5.625% interest rate?

Posted by: Amen Corner at August 3, 2007 4:36 PM

"Hey renters! Tired of paying $2500 a month towards your landlord's BMW for a crappy 1BR with no deck or parking? Come pay just a little more than that a month for a 1BR in our condo!"

Hey "owners" (shall we say renters of money), tired of paying twice as much for "owning", sitting on a fast depreciating asset you can't dump, paying $5000 a month towards your lender's BMW for a crappy 1BR with no deck and parking? Come and pay a little less (50%) for hassle free living without the burden (and fear) of ownership.

Buy, sell, repeat - go broke. Zephyr's latest slogan.

Posted by: anon at August 3, 2007 8:26 PM

170 is a great location and cool building.

Posted by: uknow at August 3, 2007 9:33 PM

170 is a scary building. From the artwork on King Street to the narrow hallways. The units are tiny and the building looks cheap from the inside. They need to offer more incentives if they want to sell the building.

Sucks being an early buyer for these developments. Buying in the "first release" is not a good idea anymore. People who wait will get the best unit/prices.

Posted by: unknown at August 3, 2007 9:57 PM

unknown at 9:57 sounds like a bitter renter. Why the hate?

Posted by: jason at August 3, 2007 10:20 PM

Jason, not bitter and not a renter either. I'm just stating the facts. For the price, there's a lot better option than 170 off 3rd. First, 310 Townsend is better if you find one w/ parking. If that does not work, i'd rather move down the block to 88 townsend, the Brannan or 200 Brannan. Those buildings are in the "real" South Beach.

Have you been into 170? The units look cheap and the building itself is off. As mentioned earlier, the hallway is tiny and dark. The plus is the pool but it's also tiny! Outdoor also?? Check out the Brannan's outdoor space compared to 170. Beacon and 170 are almost identical! Not my cup of tea. Both buildings are better suited for rentals.

Posted by: 9:57 at August 3, 2007 10:27 PM

Yes 9:57, I've seen 170 and I've seen the other developments you mentioned also and the building and location is fine. I agree with your assessment that the hallways are tight but are comments such as "real" South Beach necessary? The building borders South Beach and Mission Bay but happens to be defined as South Beach through no control of the building. Would it make a difference if 170 was marketed as Mission Bay? The fact that you put "real" in paranthases shows some nexplained hostility/hate for something that the buidling has no control over. I'm all for everyone sharing their views and opinions...just wish the hating could be left out as the underlying motives and insecurities are really obvious.

Posted by: jason at August 3, 2007 10:45 PM

"Hey renters! Tired of paying $2500 a month towards your landlord's BMW for a crappy 1BR with no deck or parking? Come pay just a little more than that a month for a 1BR in our condo!"

Hey "owners" (shall we say renters of money), tired of paying twice as much for "owning", sitting on a fast depreciating asset you can't dump, paying $5000 a month towards your lender's BMW for a crappy 1BR with no deck and parking? Come and pay a little less (50%) for hassle free living without the burden (and fear) of ownership.

Hey lenders! Tired of lending money to owners who rent their crappy 1br with no deck and parking, to finance their BMW?

Sorry, I don't really know where I'm going with this...

Posted by: anon2 at August 3, 2007 10:49 PM

this whole blog is full of biter haters

[Editor’s Note: You’re welcome to your opinion, but we'll offer some facts about the average SocketSite reader: The Average SocketSite Reader (Is Anything But).]

Posted by: huh at August 3, 2007 10:51 PM

That sentiment of 170OffThird is pretty accurate. The hallways are much too long, dimly lite, narrow, and laid out like a maze.

The location is great, but for $850-950/sqft the material used are way too cheap to be considered luxury.
Also, the bedrooms are TINY! I measured the dimensions of the bedrooms in the 2 bedroom units and they measured 11x11(master) and 10x10. You can probably cram in a queen size bed in the master, but not much else. The 2nd bedroom can't be considered a bedroom, more like a den or a large walk-in closet! That's the problem with these cheap new developments these days. Tiny units and tiny, tiny bedrooms.

Posted by: missionbay res at August 3, 2007 10:53 PM

You have to compare apples to apples. Cost and HOA is far less than the Brannan. 310, view of the train with the noice or a view of the fire escape. For the cost and HOA, 170 is comparable to Berry Ally and they are much better as that location is hotel alley. But, to each his own.

Posted by: anon at August 3, 2007 10:56 PM

"They need to offer more incentives if they want to sell the building."

I was in the sales office last weekend and they are over 70% sold. Does anyone know if they had offered incentives before? It seems like that happened pretty quickly.

I like the building. It is funky & different. I think the older crowds are not going to be attracted to it. The pool looked to be mostly 30 somethings.

Posted by: me at August 4, 2007 9:44 AM

a section of the north/sough hallway is narrow as it is more of a throughway, the main hallways are normal. For two bedrooms they are on the small side for sure, one bedrooms are pretty efficient due to some good floorplans. views are great for sure.

Posted by: anon at August 4, 2007 12:34 PM

floors above the 7th floor have higher ceilings in units and hallways by about 1 foot. The theater room is pretty cool.

Posted by: anon at August 4, 2007 2:34 PM

I went to look at 170 off Third last week. It felt cheap and low end. I only looked at the 2BR's and agreee with the other posters who said the master bedrooms are tiny. I think some of the buildings that are a few years old in Rincon Hill and South Beach are much better constructed and a better value. The sale person also had a poor attitude and acted like he was doing me a favor by showing me a few units. I think both the development and sales team are of poor quality. If they lower their prices significantly to sell off the remaining units, it may be worthwhile for less discerning buyers to look at.

Posted by: James at August 4, 2007 10:15 PM

I have a SERIOUS question for all the realtors who are reading this. I wish I would have wrote this sooner so that I might be able to get a better response.

In the past on these forums, agents/realtors always claim that their #1 object when showing a property to a clients was to get a good deal for them. Most will say that they truely care about their clients. If this is the case, why would the sales office at the Heritage raise the agent's commision? Will agents lure clients into this property since they will make more? I'm sure all the agents on this board will say it wont matter, but if this is true, why raise it? They must know something people aren't admitting.

I remember a prior post why Michael from this board said commision was important when he finds a house for his clients but how about the rest? So to say if an agent convince a client to buy at the Heritage, is this agent unethical/shaddy? Just trying to see and pick an agent out there.

Thanks!

Posted by: question at August 4, 2007 11:26 PM

Many of the newly constructed complexes have the same pathetic, boring, unimaginative floorplans, but at least the floorplans at 170 are a step up. On the negative side, at 170 the one bedroom units with a den should be called one bedroom units with a small, small office. Calling that extra space a den is, in my humble opinion, a total farce. Also, they have finally added furniture in the lobby area on the King Street side, but it is so sparse and so cheap that it is an embarassment to the complex. And if you enter the building on the Townsend Street side, you will find the elevator area absolutely filthy. Since the sales office is on the Townsend Street side, you would think they would at least strive to keep the area looking decent for perspective buyers.

Posted by: Anon at August 5, 2007 2:38 AM

170 has some of the smallest bedrooms I've ever seen in new developments. The 2 bedroom units to me, are really 1 small bedroom + den units.

But 170's studios are some of the best laid out studios I've seen in the city. For a measly 400sqft, they make good use of the kitchen and the roomy living area. They even cleverly built in a jr bedroom that has a small opening to the living room.

Really a nice floorplan in an otherwise drab complex...

Posted by: missionbay res at August 6, 2007 12:47 AM

170 does have rather dark hallways (with some interesting colors), but the asking price for the location is still very good. I am actually surprised that they are already at 70% sold. That seems pretty good for the current market and given the fact that all the best units are always sold in the first release. It will be interesting to see what else they have to do to sell the remaining units such as the small 2-bedrooms mentioned by others.

As far as Heritage, it would bother me as a buyer that they are willing to give a 3.5% broker co-op. That means that they could be willing to give that money to a potential buyer. If I were buying there I would either go there with a agent with the agreement that they will give a percentage back to me or I would just try to make an offer and ask for the 3.5% myself.

Posted by: PMad at August 6, 2007 7:22 AM

I also agree that the pricing at 170 is good given the location. Add in the fact that you also get deeded parking makes it a very attractive consideration. I'd buy a studio or 1 bedroom though as those floor plans are more space efficient than the 2 bedrooms. Also, out of 198 units, 111 (or 56%), are either 1 bedrooms or studios and given the amenities such as the pool, theater room, and gym, it appears the demographics of this place is geared more toward couples, pied-a-terre's, or singles and less towards families.

Posted by: anon at August 6, 2007 9:09 AM

After looking around the South Beach/SOMA/Mission Bay areas, I came to the conclusion that this development was the best priced for location, amenities, space, etc. I do think there are some really bad floor plans, but I also think there are some pretty good ones. I think that is probably true with all these new developments though. The best units get picked up pretty quickly, and as time passes, it's only the funky shaped, small or no view units that they are trying to unload and they are willing to offer all sorts of incentives. Has anyone looked at the Palms? They didn't start offering their low interest rate incentive until they had nothing but the bottom of the barrel left.

All developments throw around the word "luxury" a little too flippantly, and you really need to be realistic about what your paying for, what you get and what the value for all that is worth. None of these units are perfect. Everyone is going to complain something about all of them. Even the Infinity which is supposed to be best up and coming unit around gets a lot of haters, and the Berry units are next to a smelly creek and still warrant a comparable price/sq ft. People should take what is said here with a grain of salt and go take a look at the units before passing judgement on them.

Posted by: 170Buyer at August 6, 2007 2:07 PM

The Heritage on Fillmore must offer more incentives because buyers are paying a pretty penny to buy a new condo in the heart of a low-income [area]. What are the advantages? For the money, could you buy in a better area?

The only people who are making $$ on this project are the big developer and the real estate agent in charge of selling the units, who will make some handsome commissions. The new owners will ultimately be left holding the bag.

Look before you leap!

Posted by: Anon at August 30, 2007 11:13 AM

The Heritage Fillmore has the lowest price per sq. ft. of all new construction in the city. It's also a 2 minute walk to Pac Heights. You'll pay $800+/sq. foot to live in the Mission (same low income) but not $615/sq. ft to live here?

Posted by: Owner at August 31, 2007 11:22 AM

2 min walk to Pac Hts? No way! It's already a 4 min walk just to Popeye's Chicken, a place where alot of rif raff hangout. It is a 3 min walk to the housing projects across the st. from the condos where quite a few criminals live. Face it, the Fillmore is still a ghetto.

Posted by: Fact at November 27, 2007 6:46 PM

Never trust anything connected with M. Johnson.

Posted by: Chaim Loeso at November 27, 2007 6:55 PM

Rumorhazzit that owners are trying to sell their units because the prices are falling and they want to recoupe whatever they can. Many of the owners in that complex are subprime borrowers.

Posted by: Hamilton Ford at November 30, 2007 3:27 PM

I live in the building, and have never felt unsafe.

Yoshi's just opened as did 1300, and both places are fantastic.

Give it some time, and the street will continue to clean up nicely.

Agreed that the Popeye's and KFC need to be put out of business...now how to go about doing that???

Posted by: Owner at December 3, 2007 4:37 PM

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