February 19, 2007
The Potrero (451 Kansas): Sales Center Now Open
Normally we’d wait until we've had a chance to tour, critique, and get the inside scoop on a sales center before announcing its opening, but in light of a number of reader comments, we'll simply state . . . The Potrero’s sales center is now open and accepting reservations.
Would any "plugged in" readers be willing to share their initial impressions, experiences, or pricing with the rest of the SocketSite community? You know we'd do the same for you.
∙ The Potrero (451 Kansas): Sales Center Opening In February [SocketSite]
∙ The Potrero (451 Kansas): From The Low $400,000s [SocketSite]
∙ Just Quotes: It’s Hot In Manhattan, But What About Here? [SocketSite]
First Published: February 19, 2007 1:15 PM
Comments from "Plugged In" Readers
the one bedrooms range from $900 a SqFt to $1000 SqFt. Seems really high for Potrero Hill
Posted by: Anonymous at February 19, 2007 1:44 PM
My conclusion (keep in mind, this is based off of 10 minutes in the brand new sales center with nobody there to answer my questions) is that it does not differentiate itself from any other new condo development outside of the fact that the location is fantastic, there MAY be some great views and there is a Whole Foods on the street level. There is a model kitchen in the sales office and the renderings of a living room of a small unit looks no different than most of the new developments out there (think The Palms, The Lansing, etc.).
Posted by: Garrett at February 19, 2007 2:27 PM
What I find most interesting about the marketing materials is that it focuses largely on the neighborhood and the Whole Foods Market that will be on the ground floor (the market is referenced 7 times.)
Page 1: Rendering of building at night with Whole Foods in prominent position.
Page 2: "Goats grazed. Ginsberg howled." (Though we associate Ginsberg with North Beach, he is thought to have worked on Howl in a Potrero housing project.)
Page 3: "What will you do with your piece of Potrero Hill?". Image of Ginsberg at typewriter, a goat, rendering of building, and the Whole Foods logo. (Where's O.J. Simpson? He grew up on Potrero Hill!)
Page 4: "A Home on the Hill." Text about food choices in the neighborhood.
Page 5: Big photo of a pork chop, small photos of "neighborhood atmosphere."
Page 6 and 7 (centerfold): 32 additional photos of "neighborhood atmosphere." Examples: a dog in the park, some bagels stacked up on a counter, people holding beer mugs, an empty restaurant, flowers, bikes, pizza, pastries.
Special Insert: "The Pocket Guide to Potrero Hill"A very handy and well-designed map showing all the shopping and dining choices in the area.
Page 8. "The Building." That's all it says.
Page 9. Rendering of courtyard.
Page 9. (Fold out section): Map of the building. Inside the complex it has a park, two courtyards and a landscaped "mews" running through the center. Reference to fitness center with Yoga and Pilates studio.
Page 10. "The Homes." That's all it says.
Page 11. Rendering of a typical living room.
Page 11. (Fold out section, top):
A half-page summary of the features: Washer/Dryer closet. Some private patios. Studio Becker cabinets. Stainless steel GE dishwasher, range and microwave. Stainless steel Kohler dual-compartment sink and disposal. Granite countertops and backsplash. Marble countertops and backsplash in bathroom. Kohler, Grohe, etc..
Another half-page devoted to Whole Foods.
Page 11 (Fold out section, bottom): "The People behind the Potrero". (The construction company, architects, blah blah blah.) Oh, and guess what, the last four lines talk about Whole Foods Market! (Did you know there was a Whole Foods?)
Page 12: Conclusionary text, map, contact info. For the first and only time they mention that there's underground parking, but it doesn't specify any details (is it deeded, how many do you get, etc..) And oh yeah, don't forget, "Whole Foods Market right in the building..."
Posted by: Damion at February 19, 2007 2:49 PM
Why didn't they just call it "Whole Foods Condos"?
Posted by: Damion at February 19, 2007 2:52 PM
I realize that a lot of the development doesn't have Whole Foods directly below it, but wouldn't living in a non high-rise development in direct vicinity of a supermarket be noisy in terms of traffic and deliveries etc? Additionally, is the residents' underground parking shared with supermarket parking?
Posted by: Amen Corner at February 19, 2007 4:56 PM
Amen to Amen Corner! I was questioning the same thing regarding the noise of living above what will be a busy market. Most markets take deliveries with large trucks in the middle of the night. This could be a "sub-optimal" situation living above a market. Still, at least you would not have to cook.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 19, 2007 6:18 PM
I went to the open house and I was not impressed. I thought that the units were uninspiring, the finishes were a depressing range of grey and white and the prices were very high. One agent attending told me that the largest unit was just under 1,000 square feet and was listed for almost $1 mil. Generally, people attending felt that the prices were very high considering that that the 1 bedroom units started in the $600s. The complex appeared to be a copy of the Village at Petrini and Oceanview.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 19, 2007 6:28 PM
Well, I have heard that the Safeway at the Beacon has created a security concern for condo owners because of the amount of non-residents who end up at the site, coupled with occasionally inadequate security coverage at fire exit doors.
Let's face it -- the ground floor retail concept is great for developers; and politicians and city planners like it a lot too because it helps energize a neighborhood when there's new retail; but once you move in it's either irrelevant or it's annoying -- in any case it's hardly the big selling point that the marketing suggests. If you have any doubt about that, go to the best neighborhoods and count how many of the most expensive buildings have a supermarket in the lobby! Total: None.
In my view, it's ideal to have a supermarket nearby -- but that doesn't mean you want it DOWNSTAIRS. Put it across the street, for heavens sake, and leave the ground floor for the lobby, the fitness center, the concierge, and small mom-and-pop retail (or mom-and-mom and pop-and-pop if that's your thing).
Posted by: Damion at February 19, 2007 6:55 PM
Yes, there will be trucks idling outside this thing at 4am, every day, for eternity. The trucks don't turn off their engines because they have to keep the refrigerators running. Beep! Beep! Beep! We're backing up! Sweet dreams!
The Safeway, and the rest of the retail in that vicinity, are a disaster because it's a bunch of soulless chain junk, and there are not enough pedestrian attractions. Developers, please study the city. If you want to have a vibrant neighborhood like 9th and Irving, you need doors and sidewalks, bars and restaurants, weird shops and barbers and coffee joints that are not Peets nor Starbucks!
And, quite seriously, we need a law in this town about naming a building The Anything. A felony with a big fine and prison time.
Posted by: Jeffrey W. Baker at February 19, 2007 8:05 PM
HOA is around 400+ for a 1 bedroom. No concierge.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 19, 2007 8:52 PM
Anyone know when the condos/market are going to be completed?
Posted by: Brett at February 20, 2007 1:15 AM
A friend went to the sales center on the first day. Pricing in the $800-$1000 per square foot range seems outrageous for something that looks like a South Bay apartment building. I agree with those who say if you love the neighborhood, simply look to buy elsewhere nearby but away from the gridlock that will be this place on weekends.
Posted by: Mike at February 20, 2007 4:57 AM
Brett: according to one of their press releases they're targeting this "summer" for occupancy.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 20, 2007 7:14 AM
Their website is really rather strange. As Damion mentioned earlier, why the constant plugging of Whole Foods? I am trying to figure out how this is supposed to be a "positive". I can see where a market in the bottom of a large 50 story high rise would not have the same impact that a market at this location would. The exhausts from the market kitchens and other departments will make for an interesting challenge that I hope the architects solved. It will be interesting to watch how this will work out when completed for maybe it will not be as bad as it seems at the present.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 20, 2007 8:18 AM
In theory, the same problem should apply at Broderick Place or Petrini Place. I gather the former is nearly sold out; sales at the latter didn't seem to be harmed by the Albertson's downstairs. My guess is that the downside of having a supermarket in a low-rise development is outweighed by the positive of having a large number of new units in an established neigbhorhood.
Posted by: zzzzzzz at February 20, 2007 8:33 AM
For some reason, having a Whole Foods in your building guarantees success. There was an article on this about a year or so ago in the Wall Street Journal. Developers clammor to get Whole Foods in their building because it really does draw tenants. One opened in the Time Warner Building in NY and it was a huge success. I'm not saying that I would specifically want to live on top of a grocery store (I'm not that lazy about shopping), but for some people I guess it seems important however I always remember years ago I worked for a huge rental syndicate. They would put tanning beds in; nobody ever used them but it attracted tenants.
Posted by: Annonymous at February 20, 2007 8:56 AM
There's this wierd cultish feeling about Whole Foods I never liked. I doubt if I would get along with tenants attracted to a complex based on a overpriced grocery store.
Posted by: etslee at February 20, 2007 10:31 AM
20 of these units are set aside as BMR.
Posted by: PreciousB at February 20, 2007 11:23 AM
[Editor’s Note: We’ve hijacked JC’s great overview of the developing North Potrero neighborhood from an earlier SocketSite post on The Potrero.]
“I work on the North side of Potrero Hill, and a wonderful little neighborhood is developing around here. New restaurants have opened up including the new french one Couleur, and around the circle at Townsend Street there are some new places to eat, including Holy Grill which has pretty good burgers. Of course you have your neighborhood Starbucks here and a newly opened bank. It's great that the Whole Foods will be moving in. If you take the #22 bus you can also easily get to the Potrero Shopping Center where there's a Safeway and a 24 Hour Fitness. Up the hill there are some great places to eat where you can get French cuisine, Chinese food, Italian or Moroccan. There also cute little shops, Farley's coffee, and a local yoga studio on Mariposa. If you're looking to find a nice community in SF, this is definitely a great one.”
Posted by: JC [Republished] at February 20, 2007 12:07 PM
Just do a search on Potrero Hills on the SF Crime Maps. So much for your "wonderful little neighborhood". $800-$1000 per square foot, I think not.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 20, 2007 3:07 PM
hmm. I think grocery stores beneath work for people without cars - which I think is better suited for a more public transit efficient area of the city, like the 4th street one.
1M for a 1000- condo - I think they shall have cars. Damn - thats why even the single family homes are dwindling.
Posted by: cd at February 20, 2007 4:30 PM
When I lived in New York, it was a rule of thumb that it's bad news to live on top of a restaurant because of the inevitable "friends" that come with the package (e.g., rodents and other things that keep you up at night). I would think that a full-scale grocery market would present the same concerns?
Posted by: mel at February 20, 2007 5:33 PM
"Just do a search on Potrero Hills on the SF Crime Maps. So much for your "wonderful little neighborhood". $800-$1000 per square foot, I think not."
Actually, I did a search for "Potrero Hills" on the internet(s):
I searched in the last 30 days in a 1/4 mile radius of 451 Kansas St, and there were few reported crimes. The Potrero is quite a ways from the notorious projects-- but if you think the neighborhood is called "Potrero Hills," you might not realize that.
(Potrero Hill is 4.4 miles southeast of the Marina, if that helps.)
Posted by: Dan at February 21, 2007 10:50 AM
just called their sales office, 1 bedrooms starting at 600k-700k, 2 bedrooms starting at 700k-810k. that's crazy...but then again, u are in sf.
Posted by: ames at February 21, 2007 2:17 PM
Those prices are way out of line for THAT building at THAT location. Are they asking for this "premium" because of being able to live above the Whole Foods? I would rather pay a premium to live above Tartine Bakery where the unit owner would have the option of not having to wait in the line on weekends.
Posted by: Anonymous at February 21, 2007 3:55 PM
"I would rather pay a premium to live above Tartine Bakery where the unit owner would have the option of not having to wait in the line on weekends."
Great idea! Maybe a SOMA developer should offer Tartine free rent to open a branch on the ground floor of their condo building. The bakery smell could be pumped into the ventilation system, and building residents could have pastries delivered each morning. I'd buy in to "1Tartine" (or "InfiniteTea&Pastries")!
[Editor's Note: As long as they're also willing to deliver their muesli and mochas, we're in as well.]
Posted by: Dan at February 21, 2007 6:18 PM
"just called their sales office, 1 bedrooms starting at 600k-700k, 2 bedrooms starting at 700k-810k. that's crazy...but then again, u are in sf."
I also think those prices are too high but I hope they sell for my own benefit! I have a 1050k sf new condo (8 months old) with nice east bay water views. If these condos sell for for 1M, it will bring nice price points for the area!
Also, these condos are far away from the project, but actually Potrero Hill's best parts are close to the projects (18th St etc.). I'm not too fond of that area but I'm sure it will pick up once Whole Foods open up. I'm excited.
Posted by: PotreroResident at February 21, 2007 9:55 PM
"just called their sales office, 1 bedrooms starting at 600k-700k, 2 bedrooms starting at 700k-810k."
But what happened with starting in the 400ks???
Posted by: Anonymous at February 21, 2007 10:45 PM
"But what happened with starting in the 400ks???"
Posted by: Dan at February 22, 2007 9:12 AM
The units in the recently sold out Glen Park Polaris development are above the new but much smaller Canyon Market. These units were on average I believe 1200 square feet and sold in the 720K-850K range. I’d rather be there than in the Potrero.
Posted by: Willow at February 23, 2007 2:08 PM
I like Glen Park, too, but North Slope Potrero Hill is more expensive than Glen Park.
Posted by: Dan at February 25, 2007 11:41 AM
"When I lived in New York, it was a rule of thumb that it's bad news to live on top of a restaurant because of the inevitable "friends" that come with the package (e.g., rodents and other things that keep you up at night)."
Food attracting rats?
Posted by: Dan at February 25, 2007 10:49 PM
According to an email sent to the Potrero prequalified buyer list, they will be have model units open this weekend and the prices are now listed as Studios from $439,880, One-bedrooms from $545,880, and Two-bedrooms from $715,880. So it looks like maybe they're already raising prices for Studios but lowering prices for one and two bedrooms?
Posted by: anonymous at March 7, 2007 4:12 PM
Saw the model units this weekend. Nice but nothing too special. Parking is deeded and separated from Whole Foods parking with 2 separate entrances for tenants. Also, one important thing to note is that there are 2 buildings going up- the north building and the south building. They are separated by a large walkway with trees, paths, etc for families. The Whole foods is only under the north building, and they are selling units in that building first. The south building will not have a whole foods underneath.
Posted by: Anonymous at March 18, 2007 12:36 PM
Honestly, this place is wonderful. The hating is mostly coming from the people that live in the Potrero but couldn't afford to live here. Wonderful location, the average income of a Whole Foods shopper is much higher than a Safeway customer, GREAT restaurants and bars nearby, great access to freeways and Potrero is usually sunnier and warmer than the rest of the city. I love this place!
Posted by: Potrero heaven at February 8, 2011 10:13 PM
"The hating is mostly coming from the people that live in the Potrero but couldn't afford to live here."
Care to explain this self-contradictory sentence?
Does anyone have an idea what places in this building actually ended up selling for?
Posted by: sfrenegade at February 9, 2011 9:58 AM