Last November we first noticed a subtle round of price reductions for the five new conversion condominiums at The Glassworks (207 King). And as best as we can tell, all five condos remain available, the developer is now offering a “Limited Time Offer” of 3 years paid HOA fees, and prices have been reduced by as much as $200,000 (15.4%).
∙ Glassworks (207 King): Listings And Reductions [SocketSite]
∙ The Glassworks (207 King Street) [SocketSite]
The HOA is over $600 a month, which is $200 more than what all the other existing 2 level units have to pay in the same building. Parking is $400 a month across street. That’s $1000 a month for nothing. Most other places’ HOA stay in the 400s if they don’t even have anyone to pick up your package. $400 a month for parking is also the highest I’ve heard so far. I’m thinking how to explain this at the resale.
You can park at the ballpark’s lot a for $150 a month (maybe $175 I haven’t checked lately). Or at the safeway for that matter for about the same price. $400 is ridiculous what are they thinking?
Parking is at the Beacon, guess they are just trying to recover a few bucks by giving indoor parking to neighbors. The bigger question is not the $400 parking, but what makes the developer believe they can sell these units at $950/sqft in today’s market, along with HOAs ranging from $590 to $777 a month for nothing? They need to visit socketsite more often and read the inventory index every a few minutes. Then perhaps they’ll realize the fact that 6000 condos are coming to the market this year and how ridiculous what they are asking is.
“…along with HOAs ranging from $590 to $777 a month for nothing?”
Lots of Socketsite posting activity in the past several days demonstrates that the developer really has little flexibility in where HOAs are set–beyond what is truly needed for operations, maintenance, and reserves. Recent postings about the Odeon also stirred a debate about lack of on-site parking and its effect on values. To me, the bigger question is why the decision-makers behind a new property in a developing neighborhood would not include parking in their design and create a mix of operational/maintenance concerns that dictated higher than average dues for the area. It’s one thing if you’re dealing with revitalizing an older building or squeezing it into an established high-density neighborhood where you’re handed a predetermined set of challenges. It’s quite another to have created them on your own despite the freedom to have avoided them.
Hear, hear, SeeHsee. 🙂
Too bad these guys aren’t the One Rincon developers with their “valet parking” to make up for the shortage of spaces!
What I’d do if I had condos to sell with out parking in SoMa is to designate the sidewalk in front of the front door as the “Limousine Loading Area” (I’d get a BIG sign), designate the condos as ultra luxurious (because of the “extra” limo feature!). I’d add an all-included-in-the-HOA-fees stretch limo service anywhere in America to allow the homeowners to make up for my ommissions, which saved me money.
Then I’d lower the HOA fees to $300 per month. I wouldn’t care that the HOA fee wouldn’t cover the limo service: when the HOA fees skyrocketed, it wouldn’t be my problem any more. No one ever appears to look at the HOA fees for sustainability anyway: everyone just focuses on the lowest number, so what the heck: give them a lower number. It’s their problem when the numbers don’t work out!
Then I’d instruct the sales staff to wear glasses. If anyone asked about parking, I’d have the sales staff just look over the top of their glasses at the heathen who dared to ask such a question, and reply “your limo driver should be circling the block”.
Finally, I’d raise the prices because of my new “luxury features”, and watch the money start to roll in.
This project could be an example of a developer that thought they were doing everything right, but really got it all wrong. Has anyone else viewed the kitchens and bathrooms? It is almost as if all these loft projects (and this one in particular) try to see how industrial they can make the “food preparation core” appear, and how antiseptic the “bathroom hygiene unit” can feel. Lofts were supposed to be inexpensive alternatives for those who could not afford highrises or homes, or who just wanted an alternative housing space for creative work needs. Instead we get expensive plain pretend lofts with dated 1991 designs, no parking, and outrageous HOA fees. Oh I forgot, everyone wants to live here!.
“Instead we get expensive plain pretend lofts with dated 1991 designs, no parking, and outrageous HOA fees.”
Their current so called “reduced” prices have been out for around 2 months now and never changed. Not a single unit came close to being sold. I heard very few people show up to look at these units, and forget about making offers. It might be because of these interior photos that they are so proud of. Or it might simply be the price. Call me crazy, but I don’t think they’d get any buyer seriously look at the place until they drop another 100k-150k, depends on whether you are looking for your “ultra-luxury” from the 1.2M 1 bedroom or the 1.5M 2 bedroom.
The reason these units don’t include parking is they are the units which were converted from commercial office space. And $400/month for parking is a tad steep, but not ridiculously out of line. I’d think $300-$350/month would be the market rate around there, but well, it’s supply and demand, more units and less parking (from all of the development on the vacant surface lots) equals more expensive parking.
I don’t care if parking were $150 a month or $400 a week, when you are asking 1 mil. for a plain box that is not located on Central Park West or in Mayfair in London, you are out of your mind. This is a city of ONLY 750,000 people with plenty of land and lots of housing inventory. Developers better figure out that the last couple of years will not come back for a LONG time and if they are going to build units in the luxury price category, they better start including luxury items like, hmmmmmmmm, I don’t know, perhaps PARKING!
For Central Park West (with view), multiply the price by 2X, minimum. For Mayfair (or Marylebone, or Belgravia), the factor is 3 – 3.5X.
Nice try, though.
“when you are asking 1 mil. for a plain box that is not located on Central Park West or in Mayfair in London…”
The average Manhattan apt now sells for $1.2 million– Central Park West will cost you far more. In Mayfair, $1 million will get you a 549 square foot first floor apt. on leased land, with no parking:
http://www.foxtons.co.uk/search?md5=6ef7cb6dadf4a50450a4d9e9b0b608b5&search_form=map&per_page=10&order_by=price%20desc&title=Properties%20for%20sale%20in%20Mayfair&search_type=SS&property_id=4234&submit_type=search
Amused, you beat me to the post!
Ughh, I think I did not make myself clear. Soma is NOT Central Park West or Mayfair. I agree both those areas are 2x the cost at least, but come on, its NYC and London we are talking about (and I have lived in both cities). My point was, that in a city as SMALL as San Francisco, you cannot just throw anything at buyers and think it will sell because “Everyone wants to live here”. We may call San Francisco “The City”, and it is an amazing place, but I don’t think we are ready to start lowering the standard of what expectations a “luxury” unit should include. Nobody expects parking in London or NYC, but they still do here, and though it is not politically correct, this will be the standard for at least another 20 years (or until we get better public transportation).
HOA fees will go down when these five units, currently operating under their own HOA, merge with the existing Glassworks HOA. HOA fees cover real costs.
These five SFP homes have wonderful crisp design and terrific feel. 13 feet tall ceilings. The bathrooms made me swoon. I love the toilets, great details. And nothing that will date-stamp as trendy. No green glass tiles in the bathroom – clean, modern, timeless. The SFP Glassworks glass details in the homes along the 3rd Street makes these home “read” wide and open. These five units are much nicer than any of the current re-sales in the same development. Unique homes with elegant space. If you did not have to cross a highway on ramp to access parking, and if there were a loading zone in front to pull in to pick up and drop off the kids, groceries, guests etc, it would be fantastic. Too bad the parking is not in the China Basin Parking Garage, that is a much shorter walk.
These 5 homes are bigger, prettier and more unique than anything else in South Beach for the size.
The leased parking is most likely at the Beacon because Glassworks and the Beacon where both originally planned and developed by Catellus. Catellus probably planned guarenteed leased parking for their commerical spaces, in their largest garage, now the Beacon, across the street.
Some one should put a zip car in every garage downtown. That may help.
I believe these home are an opportunity purchase.
I’d have to disagree with “beckett” on the kitchens and bathrooms. They are among the nicest you will find anywhere. Spare, but certainly not sterile:
http://www.santafepartners.com/pr_GlassworksKitch.htm
I think the lack of sales has more to do with HOAs, parking and the location (doesn’t strike me as a very pleasant place to live).
…and price.
“I believe these home are an opportunity purchase.” For $1.5 Millions, get a grip. Nice real estate broker spiel though. Soaring ceilings, gleaming floors, breathtaking views. Please pull my other leg. This one is getting tired……..
Why do I keep seeing “please pull my other leg..” on this site? Is it the same poster, or am I unaware of an unfunny cliché?
“Is it the same poster, or am I unaware of an unfunny cliché?”
Both, I think.
Another observation: Only on Socketsite would the topic of lofts with high HOA fees draw more responses than for Kink.com at the Armory. Here, real estate porn gets more attention than the real thing!
“I believe these home are an opportunity purchase. ”
An “opportunity purchase”? By that you mean “you are gonna make 100/200k in a few years!!” right?C’mon now…you gotta do it better than this at a place like socketsite.
I’m glad PWB pointed out the beauty of the kitchens. I agree and personally think they’re stunning. Thank God they’re not “Tuscan Villa” style or worse, yet, that ubiquitous Home Depot grade oak or maple stuff you see in too many SF renovations.
As for the lack of sales, I’ll leave that up to the everyone else.
What I think is funny is that 10 years from now, the 1992 sleek Euro-kitchen look will be the “Tuscan Villa” style kitchens of the 2000’s. I think there are other alternatives besides Home Depot and Tuscan. I just returned from the Palm Springs-Palm Desert area and was very suprised by the amount of imagination in the kitchens in some of the “luxury” properties available. They were contemporary without looking like every other kitchen I have been in for the last 5 years. A great majority of the SOMA product looks like it came out of the same catalogues all printed around 1995. Modern Design does not mean only one look. An Eames Lounge Chair and a Le Corbusier Lounge are both modern, but very very different.
From the pics, I like this kitchen, and I think it fits the sleek converted commercial space. (I’ll reserve comment on whether the units are a good investment, whether the HOA fees are too high, and whether the parking is convenient. But I do think the pics show some pretty spaces.)