One Rincon Hill: 01-21-07 (www.SocketSite.com)
As goes The Infinity, so goes One Rincon Hill (at least in terms of vertical growth). In terms of sales, however, a tipster notes that One Rincon seem to have been hovering around 90% “sold” for the past few months. (With roughly a year of construction remaining, we’re guessing they’re not overly concerned.) A few of the available condos:
∙ 425 First #3002 (3/3) 1971 sqft – $2,165,000
∙ 425 First #3003 (3/3) 1928 sqft – $2,200,000
∙ 425 First #4207 (1/1) 819 sqft – $970,000
∙ 425 First #5503 (3/2) 1677 sqft – $2,325,000
∙ 425 First #5902 (2+/2) 1526 sqft – $2,175,000
And don’t forget, floor plans available online.
The Infinity Continues To Grow Up [SocketSite]
One Rincon Hill: Rain, Rain Go Away [SocketSite]
One Rincon Hill’s Fall Newsletter And Update [SocketSite]
One Rincon Hill: Floor Plans, Features And Amenities [SocketSite]

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Comments from “Plugged-In” Readers

  1. Posted by anon

    Boy, if this thread ends anywhere nearly as interesting as the Infinity thread ended, this is going to be really, really interesting!
    What started out as a hype thread over how Google will improve the neighborhood has ended up as a near riot as the residents have determined that the square footage figures were grossly wrong! And what a coincidence: the units are all smaller than advertised.
    Hope things go better in this thread!
    [Editor’s Note: As a "plugged in" reader notes, “Apparently the [Infinity] website designer made some mistakes and placed the wrong SqFt on the wrong units…The PDF file is the correct version per the Sales Office. They will try to correct the website asap. Terrible mistake on their part, but NO they are NOT taking away square footage.”]

  2. Posted by Invented

    Great height rising — watching it scrape the sky from my flat every day. The bldg is far more interesting under construction than with its skin. I love gorgeous tall buildings, but with its skin this looks no less attractive than a 1975 Century City office block. The horizontal bands disorient, hide the sense of floors and any scale, and compete with the vertical-ness. But, enjoying the daily rise, and in time it won’t be as painful to look at with other better buildings around it planned in vicinity. To tens of thousands a day, the wow factor will be the the height; shame the design is assertively dull and wholly underwhelming.

  3. Posted by Anonymous

    Does anyone know when construction on the 2nd tower will begin? How about construction for The Californian, across the street? I saw on the website that it’ll begin in March, but they still need to tear town the abandoned homeless shelter, so who knows?

  4. Posted by Anonymous

    What is the rule in the contract for One Rincon for selling your unit? Can you assign the contract? Is there a restriction on how soon you can sell it?

  5. Posted by indulgeinlife

    I believe the restriction is own, and live in (no renting) for two years before selling or renting. At least that’s what I heard. And yes, what BORING architecture. Have you seen the things they’re building all over Asia, and even in Chicago? Why oh why is SF so BORING??

  6. Posted by Invented

    Really sorry — buy why would anyone want to live INSIDE this building? Is it the views? The prospect of having to be inside that structure seems terribly creepy, dated and depressing. Like living in an old office building. Or, perhaps as I’m not in real estate – (yet) I’m not looking at it as a flipper-transient-in & out- commissionable structure. The ceremonious ga-ga over 1 Rincon is obscuring the reality of what this looks like in real life (artistic brochures notwithstanding). This is the type of building which is routinely reskinned to bring it up to date. We deserve so much better — especially in such a beacon location.

  7. Posted by deshard

    I don’t get over to the East Bay much, but on a recent trip over and back that marked my first time passing by the One Rincon tower, I was weirded out by just how close this building is to the freeway. Architecturally significant or not, that’s just bizarre to me. Are the spaces on the floors that seems level to and that face the freeway residential?

  8. Posted by Anonymous

    Two million to live in an office building with a beautiful view of the freeway? No thanks.

  9. Posted by Anonymous

    “I don’t get over to the East Bay much, but on a recent trip over and back that marked my first time passing by the One Rincon tower, I was weirded out by just how close this building is to the freeway.”
    I thought the same thing, but then I realized that it’s a lot closer to the building now because they redirected the West Approach of the bridge temporarily while they are retrofitting the old part that was torn down. Once that West Approach is finished, there will be a pretty good distance between the freeway and the building itself.
    I agree though, unless you’re on one of the very top floors (say 45 and above), it’s much better to have unit on the other side of the building. Don’t really want a view of the freeway below.

  10. Posted by Anonymous

    The rule on flipping is that the unit must be owned by the original purchaser for at least one year. I know because that’s in the contract documentation.
    I’m fairly shocked at how high the prices are at this point. There is a HUGE difference between the early “VIP” prices and these later prices. I got in at a little over $800/sq ft which i thought was a really good deal, but I never expected such a large disparity. Granted I’m on around the 20th floor so that always make a difference, but I also have a 2-2 corner unit that faces downtown and toward Twin Peaks, which, as one of the earlier posters alluded to, is preferably given that the West Approach to the Bridge is directly behind and currently located very close to the building.

  11. Posted by Anonymous

    I found it sort of interesting that there are comments for the first time on this blog about the look of 1Rincon not being very attractive.
    The renderings of the entire project have been around for almost a year and this is the first I’ve seen anyone make that comment, which I really just chalk up to a lack of imagination given that the project is probably less than 25% complete at this point (i.e, the two towers, the townhouses, the outdoor amenities and landscaping).
    If we’re going to get started on the whole unattractive building thing, let’s at least start where most people are in agreement, The Watermark.
    And personally, even though I am a 1Rincon buyer, I think that the Infinity is a more beautiful building from the outside, but the interior just does not compare at all. I found the Infinity model to be wholly unappealing, which is why I chose to go with 1Rincon and not Infinity, even though I would also agree with anyone who says that the Infinity has the superior location (no one with half a brain is going argue with that statement).
    Also, I love the fact that 1Rincon will be able to be seen from as far away as El Cerrito. Even now, it’s only about 25-30 stories complete, and the building looks absolutely enormous when you are walking near Mission and 1st (which is located at about sea level or 120 feet lower than the base of the tower).
    Bottom line….the neighborhood is going to be amazing when finished and 1Rincon, the Infinity and the Millennium Tower are going to be the “jewels” of the neighborhood. Therefore, I say, anyone who can join the party at any of these developments should do so. The more, the merrier.

  12. Posted by Anonymous

    I like the look of the building and it will be step in and change shape soon. The top floors have a different foot print.
    Also, it will be much further away from the freeway once they tear down the temporary off ramp.
    I don’t think this one looks any more like an office building than the other ones planned in the neighbor hood. Most highrises are clad in glass. There are some really cool ones though on Wilshire in LA but I don’t thinkt that type of look would fit SF.
    All the units above the 20th floor will have amazing views. Also, it will be one of the last towers to have floor to ceiling glass as I heard the building codes have since changed.
    As for the square footage, didn’t everybody get the plans from the county assessor? Who relied solely on the agent’s word?

  13. Posted by Anonymous

    I have had the same reaction as a previous post regarding being shocked how close this really is to the freeway when driving by. Are the floors at the same elevation to the traffic going to be for parking or are these going to be residential units? How would you be able to block out the noise and vibrations even with the windows closed? I also think the design of most of these new “jewels” is not very creative compared to Asia, Europe or even Chicago.

  14. Posted by Anonymous

    Yeah, my cousin was in town this weekend and when I pointed out 1Rincon he was convinced it was some monstrous office building. He was quite shocked when I said it’s all residential…
    From what I’ve heard the developer Urban West is not a very big name in the construction world. And does anyone know who the architectural firm is? The 1Rincon doesn’t even mention the architect and/or designer. Whoever it is should be ashamed of themselves! They had a golden opportunity to create a true world class landmark and instead they create ‘Trumpish’ style monstrosity with it’s tinted dark glass and ugly white trim.
    I’m guessing there’s no mention of the architectural firm because they wanted to spare the criticism that would come crashing down on them.
    With all of Infinity’s troubles, at least they had respected, established firms like Heller Manus and and Arquitectonica design their buildings.

  15. Posted by SeeHsee

    “Also, I love the fact that 1Rincon will be able to be seen from as far away as El Cerrito.”
    Wow, I can’t believe this compelling fact was omitted from One Rincon’s marketing materials. I guess if you have friends in El Cerrito, you can call them and ask, “Can you see me?”

  16. Posted by Anonymous

    “As for the square footage, didn’t everybody get the plans from the county assessor? Who relied solely on the agent’s word?”
    County assessor….which did happen to equate to the agent’s estimate.
    Quoted an estimate of 1240 sq ft by the agent, per assessor, was actually 1238.

  17. Posted by Anonymous

    Several years from now when more highrises go up with it’s superstar architects and designers, ask yourself this – would you rather live in a creepy office building near the freeway with it’s dark windows or a stunning landmark building in a better downtown location?
    I would hate to be a 1Rincon owner when all these fantastic new buildings go up…

  18. Posted by Anonymous

    “Yeah, my cousin was in town this weekend and when I pointed out 1Rincon he was convinced it was some monstrous office building. He was quite shocked when I said it’s all residential…”
    That reaction makes complete sense in this city because these types of buildings (i.e., 1Rincon, Infinity and Millenium Tower) look out of place if you compare them with the traditional SF architecture. But I don’t to rehash that old argument. I think the whole point of this new neighborhood is to try something completely new for the city. I realize that many old school SF traditionalists may have a problem with this, but get over it.
    I think 1Rincon, in absolute terms, is a very attractive building and certainly has character. Office building? I think not. I think this poster may be thinking of a mid-rise building right down the street. What’s it called, Water something?

  19. Posted by morgan

    This is the first I ever have heard of codes being changed regarding floor to ceiling glass in high rises? Can the person who posted at 11:27am provide any more information about where they found this code change?

  20. Posted by Anonymous

    “..would you rather live in a creepy office building near the freeway with it’s dark windows or a stunning landmark building in a better downtown location?”
    Of course not. That’s a loaded question because it’s completely opinion, which is great. Just like I would ask, would you rather live in a building whose floor plans are ugly, not functional and wholly impractical. Of course not. And again, that’s a loaded question. Why? Opinion.

  21. Posted by missionbay res

    “..would you rather live in a creepy office building near the freeway with it’s dark windows or a stunning landmark building in a better downtown location?”
    Loaded question or not, I certainly would choose location and design first. That’s a no brainer…

  22. Posted by Anonymous

    “Loaded question or not, I certainly would choose location and design first. That’s a no brainer…”
    The statement that 1Rincon is in some way an inferior design literally requires that the person making the statement be a “no brainer.” There’s just no credibility behind the statement. Location is certainly a more objective criteria and in that regard, 1Rincon is not superior to Infinity or Millennium (although some would probably disagree on Millennium Tower given that it is right next to where the new Transbay terminal will be be built).
    But design, NO WAY. That’s about as opinion as one can get.

  23. Posted by Anonymous

    About 10 years ago SF Moma did an exhibit called Unbuilt San Francisco. One of the most engaging projects was from the 40′s for a two gateway towers at the foot of where the Oakland Bridge skyway emptied onto San Francisco city streets. There was a tower on each side of the road and the deco design had imagination and took a position much more decisive than trying to build another office tower or Trump West.

  24. Posted by Anonymous

    Judging from the comments in this post, seems most will agree 1Rincon’s exterior design is “sub-optimal”
    Even if the interior is superior, how will you get the buyers inside if they hate the outside? Unlike a house, you can’t remodel the outside. If I was to buy a condo or townhome and hated the exterior I wouldn’t care how nice the inside is. I just wouldn’t consider the buying in the complex.
    Now if the outside was stunning and beautiful and the inside wasn’t as upgraded I could still go in, spend a few thousand to remodel the inside. It’s a simple solution when the inside is ‘sub-optimal’
    But there’s no way to change the outside…

  25. Posted by Anonymous

    I don’t think that its universally agreed that the exterior is suboptimal. There are some on here that like it and all you have to have are some buyers interested to get the ball rolling. That’s the beauty of SF…if you don’t like one building’s design/location, you can go for another one, as a ton are going up in the next few years.

  26. Posted by Anonymous

    Views of the freeway? So what? Why isn’t anyone complaining about paying over $1 million for real estate on streets like 19th Avenue, Lombard St west of Van Ness, Geary Blvd, California St, and other busy streets which are virtually freeways. I’ll take One Rincon anyday.

  27. Posted by Anonymous

    “I don’t think that its universally agreed that the exterior is suboptimal. There are some on here that like it and all you have to have are some buyers interested to get the ball rolling. That’s the beauty of SF…if you don’t like one building’s design/location, you can go for another one, as a ton are going up in the next few years.”
    This is the only credible statement on this issue because it points out why these back and forth debates are great…everyone knows the old saying,
    “Opinions are like a$$$#$….everybody has one.”
    The only opinion that counts is the opinion of the person who buys your condo if, and when you ever sell it, and pays more for it than you paid when you bought it.
    Everything else is just conversation.

  28. Posted by Anonymous

    “Boy, if this thread ends anywhere nearly as interesting as the Infinity thread ended, this is going to be really, really interesting!
    What started out as a hype thread over how Google will improve the neighborhood has ended up as a near riot as the residents have determined that the square footage figures were grossly wrong! And what a coincidence: the units are all smaller than advertised.”
    Reponding to Anon’s quote at 7:48 AM, looks like someone call Infinity and apparently the website is wrong. They’re not taking away any square footage. The units on the website is inaccurate and you have to download the pdf files to get the accurate sqft which remains unchanged.
    Somehow I had a suspicion the website was incorrect…

  29. Posted by SeeHsee

    I would categorize One Rincon’s design as “safe”, which is probably a smart route for a developer to take (although not necessarily a beneficial approach for the city’s architectural mix). Ultimately, the building’s exterior design has to appeal to a wide audience of buyers–and not alienate any prospects–which pretty much guarantees it will have neutral appearance. At the risk of a sound verbal lashing from a defensive One Rincon deposit-holder, I will assert that the building does look dated. But, modern design is particularly vulnerable to that. So perhaps it’s better just to start out with something unobjectionable that doesn’t stand out rather than something more cutting-edge that might end up looking even more representative of a particular time period.

  30. Posted by Invented

    “The renderings of the entire project have been around for almost a year and this is the first I’ve seen anyone make that comment, which I really just chalk up to a lack of imagination given that the project is probably less than 25% complete at this point (i.e, the two towers, the townhouses, the outdoor amenities and landscaping).”
    Good points but — @ time of looking @ renderings everyone was focusing on the height (SF finally gets over its fear of height) and I for one ignored fact that the design itself made me wince. Looks like a look-ma-no-hands ostentatious declaration of concrete and glass — all the more uneeded because of its naturally fine hill-top location.
    Unfortulately it’s only going to get worse as the skin goes on and it gets taller. It’s bad design getting worse.
    This could have been a truly exquisite structure; a beacon reflecting its remarkable position bridging water land sky fog. Instead let’s face it, it would look right @ home in downtown Tulsa.

  31. Posted by Paul Hwang

    Hey Socketheads,
    I’ve got new pics from 28th and 29th floors posted at:
    http://www.skyboxrealty.com/one_rincon_hill_views.html
    Paul

  32. Posted by Anonymous

    I disagree with the statement that the glass tower doesn’t look too great. I think that the glass shimmers at night with the reflection of traffic and that the glass look alone, perched so highly on such a prominent hill gives it an incredible look to it. Sure, the developers could’ve created some imaginative Dubai or Shanghai-style tower, but SF prefers a bit more subtle design. I think that the glass look is bold (most high-rises in SF are currently bland, concrete block-style structures) and not too over the top.

  33. Posted by Anonymous

    Any guesses as to how many 1Rincon buyers are looking to flip when their one year is up?

  34. Posted by Anonymous

    “Details on a few of the available condos:
    ∙ 425 First #3002 (3/3) 1971 sqft – $2,165,000
    ∙ 425 First #3003 (3/3) 1928 sqft – $2,200,000
    ∙ 425 First #4207 (1/1) 819 sqft – $970,000
    ∙ 425 First #5503 (3/2) 1677 sqft – $2,325,000
    ∙ 425 First #5902 (2+/2) 1526 sqft – $2,175,000″
    Where’d you guys get this info?
    I’ve been trying to get a sense of where the 10% of remaining unsold condos are in the building. I.s., are they scattered throughout the tower, are they mainly concentrated on the higher floors, etc.?
    I figured that these higher price/sq ft units would be slow to move. They’ll probably be sold off right before completion of the building. Like you said, there is still a long time to go until these upper floors can move in.
    I’m on 17 and they told me that at this point they are estimating a February to March 2008 move-in for the lower floors. I think they can do about 40 closings a month and there are generally 8 units per floor.

  35. Posted by Anonymous

    I don’t think this is about glass building not looking too great. Infinity is shaping up pretty nice and it’s all glass. I think people have issues with the dark glass, white trim, and square shape. Like many said, it’s a dated 70′s look.
    When 1Rincon first started selling, folks were awed by the height and had the mindset of “I’m gonna buy into the tallest building in SF” kind of thinking.
    Certainly, the marketing team did a steller job and selling the height and lure of highrise living. They did an unbelievable job of creating excitement, sensation, and curiousity.
    Now the building is going up and folks see the skin of the building, I wonder how many are saying “uh oh…”, or “what the $*#&$”

  36. Posted by Anonymous

    “a tipster notes that One Rincon seem to have been hovering around 90% “sold” for the past few months. (With roughly a year of construction remaining, we’re guessing they’re not overly concerned.)”
    I think that’s exactly right and this is because I’m guessing that if you were assessing the percentage sold for units in the Tower Levels (i.e., floors 4-27 and 32-50 where there are 8 units per floor) I would bet that 1Rincon almost 100%, if not 100%, sold.
    The units on floors 28-31 and 51-60 (i.e., the Tower Deluxe and Tower Select units) are much larger units and there are generally only 4 units per floor and therefore will fetch a much larger asking price.
    These are the units that the Google-founder-wealth type buyers would purchase just have a place to crash if there are visiting their employees in the Gap building.
    My guess is that over at the Infinity, the same cannot be said for their units that are the equivalent of the “working-man/woman” units at 1Rincon. I would be surprised if those are much more than 50% sold, and that’s not all about pricing points either, it’s about quality.

  37. Posted by Anonymous

    “Now the building is going up and folks see the skin of the building, I wonder how many are saying “uh oh…”, or “what the $*#&$””
    None, if they actually cared at all about looking at the building before they bought.
    It’s fairly interesting to see how people who probably could never afford to live in this building in the first place presume to know what the thought process is of a person who actually went through the condo research and buying process, thought about all of the the angles (both financial, architectural and design) and then made good sound decision about where they would like to live.
    I personally would be going “uh oh…”, or “what the $*#&$” if I were living in this city and had to rent for the rest of my life because I couldn’t actually afford to live in it.
    That would be a much scarier proposition than whether or not a completely subjective issue like how the building looks to the SF/Bay Area residents at large.
    Can’t we get back to more important stuff like, what’s planned for the neighborhood, what units at 1Rincon are still available, pricing for those units and maybe even toss in a little discussion about ventless dryers again.
    Unfortunately, these Transbay/Rincon Hill/South Beach threads have recently degraded way down into the realm of being highly “sub-optimal” and that’s a shame.

  38. Posted by missionbay res

    Good point about the marketing team. They should definitely get a gold medal for created the pre-sale buzz that resulted in so many sales…

  39. Posted by Anonymous

    “I personally would be going “uh oh…”, or “what the $*#&$” if I were living in this city and had to rent for the rest of my life because I couldn’t actually afford to live in it.”
    “Renting from the owner as opposed to renting from the mortgage lender” is what you mean to say I suppose. I would love to see the typical financing of condo purchases in SF these days. 10% down, Interest Only, 3-5 years fixes. Pretty scary thought. “Uh oh..”

  40. Posted by Anonymous

    “Now if the outside was stunning and beautiful and the inside wasn’t as upgraded I could still go in, spend a few thousand to remodel the inside.”
    Proof of the ignorance of some of the posters on this board. Spend a few thousand to remodel the inside? What a joke. A high-end dishwasher costs a few thousand.
    “Good points but — @ time of looking @ renderings everyone was focusing on the height (SF finally gets over its fear of height) and I for one ignored fact that the design itself made me wince.”
    More proof. You are telling us that everybody focused on the height instead of design. Speak for yourself.

  41. Posted by Anonymous

    “Renting from the owner as opposed to renting from the mortgage lender” is what you mean to say I suppose. I would love to see the typical financing of condo purchases in SF these days. 10% down, Interest Only, 3-5 years fixes. Pretty scary thought. “Uh oh..”
    I would agree, but that gets back to my original point about whether or not you can really afford to live in this city. That type of mortgage product is scary for sure and if you are forced to go to that product, it probably means you are living beyond your means.
    Also, on the renting money verus renting from the owner. Don’t forget a little thing called the mortgage interest deduction on your tax return. Since almost 100% of your payments in the first few years are interest and not principal, that’s a serious legal tax shelter you got yourself there.
    If you figure that after-taxes you are paying about the same as renting, it makes buying versus renting pretty much a no-brainer. The beauty of buying into one of these pre-construction deals is that if you “reserve” at a time when interest rates are high, prices will typically be a little lower, but by the time you are actually required to close on the place, which could be anywhere from 12-18-24 months, interest rates could have moved down substantially and then you’re looking at the best of both worlds.
    I’m guessing that I’ll probably pick up a point to a point and half interest rate benefit between the time that I locked my condo price and the time that I close on the condo. That’s what you call arbitrage, buying in a low price environment and financing the purchase in a low-interest rate environment.

  42. Posted by SeeHsee

    I’ve bought pre-construction before, but never in a situation where the home wouldn’t be completed and ready to occupy within a few months of going into contract. With developments like One Rincon and the Infinity, what happens if:
    1. When it comes time to actually purchase, you no longer qualify for financing because you experience a change in financial standing (income drops, debt/income ratio increases, credit has score has deteriorated) or interest rates go up to the degree they affect your buying power?
    2. The price at which you originally went into contract is no longer in line with market values? For example, you’re in contract for a $900k 1000 sq/ft unit and comparable properties are selling for much less.
    Do you simply walk away and forfeit the deposit, or is there some recourse?

  43. Posted by Anonymous

    I don’t think one is correct to call comments that feel the exterior design is similar to a 70′s office tower in Irvine , “Bitter”, because they ,”Could not afford”, to purchase one of these units. I think many of us are either looking to purchase or already own in the neighborhood and are just concerned at what is being built and how the area will develope over time. For better or worse, these towers are going to be landmarks and I feel a real opportunity was lost to build something extraordinary for the entire city. Paul, the views look incredible btw.

  44. Posted by Anonymous

    Legally, you are at risk to lose the entire deposit, as liquidated damages. The legislation passed in 2003 allows for up to 3% as per se liquidated damages.
    However, practically speaking, you may only forfeit the lesser of the deposit or the expenses incurred by the developer to find a replacement buyer, which usually would result in the buyer selling your unit at a much higher price since the building is presumably then complete or very close to completion.
    However, with pre-construction projects like these, unless you’re talking about some really average project like Arterra, for example, the pre-construction prices will be low enough that #2 is a very unlikely scenario.
    #1, however, likely occurs quite often and in that case, the buyer would pretty much be screwed.

  45. Posted by Anonymous

    “1. When it comes time to actually purchase, you no longer qualify for financing because you experience a change in financial standing (income drops, debt/income ratio increases, credit has score has deteriorated) or interest rates go up to the degree they affect your buying power?”
    Not sure about the first part, but if you are even somewhat savvy you should have a rate locked in with a float-down in case interest rates decline further.
    “2. The price at which you originally went into contract is no longer in line with market values? For example, you’re in contract for a $900k 1000 sq/ft unit and comparable properties are selling for much less.”
    If you reserved a 900k unit for 3% (the most they can keep) it would be 27k. If real estate prices were lower than your purchase price minus the deposit, then you could walk away and re-buy or if you really loved the building and wanted to live there for a long time you could still move in. It will most likely recover in the long run.
    If you actually moved in now and the prices dropped you could lose substantially more money than the 27k. For the buyers of One Rincon their losses would be capped at 3% plus whatever costs of the transaction and tied up capital. Although the deposit should be sitting in an interest bearing account.

  46. Posted by Anonymous

    Paul,
    Thanks so much for these great images! They are beautiful.
    Can I make a suggestion. I am not sure if it is my browser but the organization of the images is nearly impossible to decipher. You should just put them in categories and name the images.
    Floor 28, East for example. Not sure what the middle ring is since the images are kind of randomly placed.
    In any case, thanks much!

  47. Posted by SeeHsee

    Thanks for the thoughtful responses about deposits. Much appreciated!

  48. Posted by Anonymous

    “Now if the outside was stunning and beautiful and the inside wasn’t as upgraded I could still go in, spend a few thousand to remodel the inside.”
    Proof of the ignorance of some of the posters on this board. Spend a few thousand to remodel the inside? What a joke. A high-end dishwasher costs a few thousand.”
    Still the point is well made. 1Rincon is ugly, that much we know. Future buyers that look at 1Rincon and it’s location, and compare it to it’s prettier cousins in better locations will choose the better location and the prettier cousins. It’s great point that anyone can go in and remodel the interior of a unit, but you cannot change the ugliness of 1Rincon’s exterior.
    That unfortunately will be there forever for folks to see and that is truly unfortunate given it’s prominent location…

  49. Posted by Anonymous

    Take any two buildings on Russian Hill, Nob Hill, the Marina etc.
    One building that you may think is ugly, another building that you think is beautiful. Granted the quality is the same, I challenge anyone to show that there would be any substantial difference in the values per square foot. Put you your money where your mouth is. Is anybody up to the challenge?
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It is an opinion.

  50. Posted by Anonymous

    “1Rincon is ugly, that much we know. Future buyers that look at 1Rincon and it’s location, and compare it to it’s prettier cousins in better locations will choose the better location and the prettier cousins. It’s great point that anyone can go in and remodel the interior of a unit, but you cannot change the ugliness of 1Rincon’s exterior.
    That unfortunately will be there forever for folks to see and that is truly unfortunate given it’s prominent location…”
    “That much we know…” Hilarious.
    One thing that you can certainly say about the delusional is that they certainly know to use the English language to support their own fantasies.
    Contrast the above the with the last comment where the term opinion is thrown around. Even if that person said that 1Rincon were the ugliest building that they had ever seen in the history of buildings, at least I would respect the fact that they were stating personal opinion.

  51. Posted by Jesse

    Wow, ugly looking building in a terrible freeway hugging location. 1Rincon may eventually turn out nice, but to me that’s a bad recipe when investing in real estate…

  52. Posted by Anonymous

    “I would agree, but that gets back to my original point about whether or not you can really afford to live in this city. That type of mortgage product is scary for sure and if you are forced to go to that product, it probably means you are living beyond your means.”
    Prices are so high in SF because people are doing exactly that: living beyond their means. Prices could drop at any point if economic fundamentals which enable people to live beyond their means change.
    Last time I checked, interest rates were at a 40 year low. Why would you expect rates to go down from where they are now? They can only go in one direction: up. And the decision is not made by the US Federal Reserve, the decision is made by foreign central banks who may or may not want to hold a sinking currency anymore.
    Given all the risk, paying rent to the owner and being able to walk away at any time sure beats renting the money from my bank and assuming all the risk myself. If people had to take out earthquake insurance, the One Rincon would be half empty. But they don’t. Speaking of risk…….

  53. Posted by Anonymous

    “Now if the outside was stunning and beautiful and the inside wasn’t as upgraded I could still go in, spend a few thousand to remodel the inside. It’s a simple solution when the inside is ‘sub-optimal’
    But there’s no way to change the outside…”
    I think this was in response to someone saying the infinity layouts were sub-optimal not necessarily the finishes.
    Why would anybody buy say in the infinity only to remodel the interior? If the layout sucks, it would be hugely costly to change the layout if you can change the layout at all.
    You would never recuperate your costs since your unit would probably still sell at a comparable price to your neighbors.
    Personally, I would rather live in a good interior layout in what some may think is an ugly building than live in a bad layout in what some would think is a beautiful building.
    But that is my opinion.

  54. Posted by SeeHsee

    I can’t believe I’m sticking up for One Rincon, but…Honestly, I think the ugliness of One Rincon is being overstated. It may not be stunning, but I’m sure it’ll be an appealing addition to the skyline. And, speaking of opinions, I’d take a glass exterior over a stucco hi-rise like Bridgeview (or, to a lesser degree, the Metropolitan) any day. In the end, it is a matter of personal choice. And fixating so strongly on the appearance of the exterior is to ignore other factors that will more strongly determine One Rincon’s lasting value as a smart home purchase. The building I live in borders on hideous. But, units in it have consistently held their value because the building is well located and maintained. Twenty years from now, the new SOMA/SoBe developments will be old news from an architectural standpoint. It’s better to put the focus on characteristics that are more enduring.

  55. Posted by Anonymous

    Seems like this whole “opinion” thing is starting to catch-on.
    I agree 100% with Anon @ 3:46. Let’s think about this? Where do you spend 99.99% of your time when you are at home, sitting on the curb across the street admiring the “look” of the building or kicking back on your designer couch in your tastefully designed floor plan, enjoying a glass of fine wine, maybe some cheeses (both domestic and imported), and saying thinking to yourself, “ahhh…this is so wonderful to be INSIDE my apt.”
    The things that people try and latch onto to criticize are so ridiculous.
    But that is not the view of “many of” the posters here, that is just my personal OPINION.

  56. Posted by Anonymous

    “If people had to take out earthquake insurance, the One Rincon would be half empty.”
    If people had to buy earthquake insurance, half the city would be empty. Who has earthquake insurance? It costs a fortune.

  57. Posted by Dude

    Why is anyone worried about rates going up or losing their deposit here? I recently read that pets.com is opening a new office nearby with like 12 people. That will fuel the local economy, plus those 12 milionaires will snap up the remaining units at like $5,000/sq. ft. It’s a new paradigm.

  58. Posted by Anonymous

    “I think this was in response to someone saying the infinity layouts were sub-optimal not necessarily the finishes.
    Why would anybody buy say in the infinity only to remodel the interior? If the layout sucks, it would be hugely costly to change the layout if you can change the layout at all.”
    Strange why you would mention Infinity and it’s layout when no one else does. Infinity has it’s own blog. Go post there…
    Anyways, if anon was referring to Infinity (and at this point it’s only speculation), they have like 50 different floorplans so are you saying that those 50 floorplans suck? I personally think it’s nice a developer would have such a variety of selections and not the cookie cutter selection most developers has in this city…

  59. Posted by Anonymous

    “Strange why you would mention Infinity and it’s layout when no one else does. Infinity has it’s own blog. Go post there…”
    Hmmm, I am sorry but you could not be more wrong. Why don’t you do a search for Infinity on this blog? It is under the edit menu in your explorer.
    There are quite a few mentions of the infinity and the post I was referring to is below. And yes, it was taken from this blog.
    “And personally, even though I am a 1Rincon buyer, I think that the Infinity is a more beautiful building from the outside, but the interior just does not compare at all. I found the Infinity model to be wholly unappealing, which is why I chose to go with 1Rincon and not Infinity, even though I would also agree with anyone who says that the Infinity has the superior location (no one with half a brain is going argue with that statement).”

  60. Posted by Anonymous

    “I agree 100% with Anon @ 3:46. Let’s think about this? Where do you spend 99.99% of your time when you are at home, sitting on the curb across the street admiring the “look” of the building or kicking back on your designer couch in your tastefully designed floor plan, enjoying a glass of fine wine, maybe some cheeses (both domestic and imported), and saying thinking to yourself, “ahhh…this is so wonderful to be INSIDE my apt.”
    Holy crap, I almost fell over when I read this! Can’t believe the smugness of this posting.
    Designer couch, fine wine? IMPORTED CHEESE?
    Jeez, you forgot the belugar caviar.
    I’m actually glad now I’m not gonna be neighbors with this Anon!

  61. Posted by Anonymous

    “they have like 50 different floorplans so are you saying that those 50 floorplans suck?”
    I should have been more clear. I am in the market for a one bedroom possible with a den.
    The infinity has no one bedrooms with balconies and in many of the plans the dens/offices have no windows. In my opinion this makes them large walk-in closets but that is my opinion so no one can argue that with me.

  62. Posted by Anonymous

    Its Beluga caviar. Get it straight. And those cheeses sound delicious.

  63. Posted by Anonymous

    “I’m actually glad now I’m not gonna be neighbors with this Anon!”
    It was joke you dolt. Heaven forbid that I try to spice up one of the posts on this topic with some over embellished color.
    I will keep it strictly business for now on per Anon @ 4:14′s request.

  64. Posted by Anonymous

    “Boy, if this thread ends anywhere nearly as interesting as the Infinity thread ended, this is going to be really, really interesting!”
    Indeed!
    Imagine what the Homeowners Association Meetings will be like? I hope they spread around the “Fine wine and cheese (both foreign and domestic” to soothe the strong opinions of this group.

  65. Posted by Anonymous

    “Imagine what the Homeowners Association Meetings will be like? I hope they spread around the “Fine wine and cheese (both foreign and domestic” to soothe the strong opinions of this group.”
    Well said 4:29. If I am lucky enough to be elected HOA President, that will be my first order of business.
    RESOLVED
    “Each meeting of One Rincon Hill Home Owner’s Association will begin with a serving of fine wine and cheeses (both domestic and imported).”

  66. Posted by SF Living

    One thing I love about 1Rincon blogs is that these 1Rincon buyers sure get emotional and riled up easily. I remember other folks mentioning the same thing.
    Dangle a carrot and they’ll jump at it! Every single time… :-)

  67. Posted by Anonymous

    “One thing I love about 1Rincon blogs is that these 1Rincon buyers sure get emotional and riled up easily. I remember other folks mentioning the same thing.
    Dangle a carrot and they’ll jump at it! Every single time… :-)”
    I think your thought is not quite broad enough. I would say, “these [blank] buyers sure get emotional and riled up easily.”
    You could easily fill in Watermark or Infinity in that sentence and it would be true. I’ve seen buyers from all of these projects jump on here and go crazy whenever the quality of their project is questioned or criticized.
    And you’re right, some of these people take the bait every time. I’m a 1Rincon buyer, but i just sit back and enjoy the show. It’s fantastic.

  68. Posted by Anonymous

    Who’s crazier? People defending their buildings against endless critism? Or the people posting endless critism when they don’t even own in the building?

  69. Posted by Anonymous

    “Who’s crazier? People defending their buildings against endless critism? Or the people posting endless critism when they don’t even own in the building?”
    That one’s WAAY too close to call. I say we just head over to Costco buy them all straight jackets in bulk to get the discount.

  70. Posted by redseca2

    I am loving the use of this new word here! Like when the cat pukes, is he being “Sub-Optimal”?
    I am not going to comment regarding 1 Rincon beyond that. People who have 1 to 2 million dollar 2 bedroom condos in contract trading barbs with people who do not have 1 to 2 million dollar 2 bedroom condos in contract are just talking past each other. Fun to watch, but if you can’t say anything nice – don’t.

  71. Posted by SeeHsee

    These last few posts remind me (to a much lesser degree) of some of the energy around the Yerba Buena Lofts when they were first sold. I was among those first buyers, but I was moving over from the East Bay and missed out on some of the local hype about what was then a high-profile project. I found myself living among a group of extremely fragile, mean-spirited egomaniacs. They needed a lot of attention and accolades for their decision to purchase at YBL but were affronted and defensive when someone didn’t share their refined appreciation for the building. It was a creepy, creepy place to live. I turned my unit over and moved on. In the end, you just have to be happy with the place you have chosen to purchase, know that only you need to understand the factors behind your decision, and don’t let the criticism get you down.

  72. Posted by Anonymous

    I am not sure it is getting people down. This is great entertainment. Its better than a sitcon because you can participate.

  73. Posted by Anonymous

    “I am loving the use of this new word here! Like when the cat pukes, is he being “Sub-Optimal”?”
    Great line, redseca2. I tried earlier to bring up the whole history of the use of “sub-optimal” but i got dinged by the administrator so I sort of backed off on its use.
    I would love to see piece in the future that actually incorporated the use of that term. It’s almost taken on a life of its own at this point.
    [Editor’s Note: Okay, if you insist on calling us out…you got “dinged” for quoting from one of your own comments and then playing it off as a different “Anonymous” reader (a particular pet peeve of ours).]

  74. Posted by Anonymous

    Many posters to this blog have expressed their view that 1Rincon is a “sub-optimal” condo project.
    Speaking of, I think this is where it all began…
    http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2006/08/the_mullen_buildings_5260_rausch_73_sumner_1.html
    A shout out to “pwb” for his or her inspiration.

  75. Posted by Tom

    I was at a party at Terra SF (next door to One Rincon) over the weekend and was pleased with how the glass looked at dusk, when the remaining light of the western sun hits it. I’ve been critical on this blog in the past about the cliche bowed glass front and the darkness of the glass, but at least it is full-bleed glass and not some succo patchwork. One Rincon will not likely win any AIA or other design awards but it is clean and, except for that bowed front with its cut-in balconies, pretty purely modern. It will be interesting to look back in 20 years and see which high rise has aged the most gracefully. But I don’t see that those buyers who like, or at least don’t dislike One Rincon’s exterior, will regret (or not) their purchase based on the exterior design any more than other new tower buyers will. The location and maintenance and timelessness of the interiors (both plans and finishes) will be the drivers I think.

  76. Posted by Anonymous

    “It will be interesting to look back in 20 years and see which high rise has aged the most gracefully.”
    It will be very interesting indeed. And not just from an architectural point of view. It will be even more interesting from a seismological point of view.

  77. Posted by Anonymous

    “It will be even more interesting from a seismological point of view.”
    Given its location at the top of solid rock and the fact that the developer was required to conduct seismic integrity tests on the structure at like an 8.5 Richter earthquake, your implication is not credible. The building and its design are solid.
    There is more risk that a 2 story Marina condo would be leveled in a major earthquake than this 60 story building coming down.

  78. Posted by Anonymous

    “At Rincon Hill, the building’s core is slowly rising out of the foundation. The core looks like the clasped fingers of a steel hand, with concrete poured on the steel.
    Another building using the concrete core method is the Intercontinental Hotel, going up at Fifth and Howard streets, south of Market.
    One advantage of the core construction as opposed to the steel-frame method is that the condos in the towers would not have structural members obscuring the windows. This means floor-to-ceiling windows and spectacular views. The better the view, the more the developer can charge.
    Outside of the core at One Rincon will be outriggers, tall columns made of steel-reinforced concrete. These provide extra strength. The outrigger design is “tried and true,” said Raymond Lui, a structural engineer with the San Francisco Building Inspection Department.
    But Klemencic introduced another element that interested the building inspectors. These were V-shaped devices called buckling restrained braces, installed between the outriggers and the core. These act something like the shock absorbers in automobiles to provide an extra edge in the event of earthquake.
    One of the problems of braces is that they tend to buckle — fold up and lose all strength — in the event of some serious shock, an earthquake, for example. But the buckling restrained braces, which are steel, are encased in a sleeve of steel and reinforced concrete designed to prevent buckling.
    “This is the first time in the United States that these have been used in this way,” Klemencic said. Lui agrees. “I don’t think anyone has used the buckling restrained braces with outriggers before,” Lui said. “It is a new structural concept,” said Hanson Tom, program manager for the city’s Building Inspection Department.
    The tower has yet another unusual feature — on the very top are two water tanks holding about 100,000 gallons combined. Each tank will also have two liquid damper screens to control the flow of the water. The purpose of the tanks is to counter the sway of the building in a high wind.
    Strong winds can make even the biggest buildings move; this one can sway 15 to 16 inches, which could be upsetting to the residents.
    “You would feel the vibration if you didn’t have the damper,” Lui said. But the design idea is that if the wind tends to move the building one way, the water would provide a counterbalance for stability.
    This concept has never been used in this country before.
    No single element in the design caused a problem, but all of the innovations — in what Klemencic calls “a performance-based design” rather than a prescriptive design — meant the city wanted to look carefully at the tower.
    It convened a peer review with three eminent engineers — Jack Moehle, a UC Berkeley professor whom Tom describes as “a world-renowned specialist” in structural engineering; Ronald Hamburger of Oakland, another famous engineer who has been president of the Structural Engineers Association; and Lelio Mejia, an expert in seismic engineering.
    The peer group checked the calculations and the design, and ran tests at UC Berkeley to simulate earthquakes earlier this year. “The biggest quake we had here was 7.8 on the scale on the San Andreas Fault,” Klemencic said. “We simulated five times that. We simulated 14 different major earthquakes,” he said. “It performed fine.”
    The world of top seismic engineers is small. Klemencic had studied under Moehle at Berkeley, so his former professor once again examined his work. “It’s like defending your Ph.D. thesis over and over again,” Klemencic said, “like doing homework over. It’s pretty rigorous.’”

  79. Posted by Tom

    I confined my comment to non-seismic aging because this and other new towers will be a lot more robust than the majority of older local built structures in the face of the inevitible big one. Not to say anyone can prove that they’ll survive intact but really, it is close to junk science to imply that the height of these modern, more-carefully-analyzed-than-anything-prior structures somehow implies unknown risk (if that is a correct interpretation of Anonymous at 6:10pm’s post; apologies if it is not). Agree completely with Anonymous at 6:21pm that the Marina 2-3 story buildings with open first-level garages (“soft-stories”) are at much higher risk of being red-tagged or burning down after collapsing on their gas lines after the big one. Along with older bridges, streets on fill, and lots and lots of older tall (and maybe even not-so-tall, depending how bad the quake is) buildings.

  80. Posted by Anonymous

    “[Editor’s Note: Okay, if you insist on calling us out…you got “dinged” for quoting from one of your own comments and then playing it off as a different “Anonymous” reader (a particular pet peeve of ours).]”
    I honestly don’t recall quoting my own post and then “playing it off” as you suggested, but I do understand how that could be a pet peeve for any blog editor. Thanks for feedback and allowing us all to “plug in.”

  81. Posted by Anonymous

    “And personally, even though I am a 1Rincon buyer, I think that the Infinity is a more beautiful building from the outside, but the interior just does not compare at all. I found the Infinity model to be wholly unappealing, which is why I chose to go with 1Rincon and not Infinity, even though I would also agree with anyone who says that the Infinity has the superior location (no one with half a brain is going argue with that statement).”
    Location, location, location. I work on Folsom near the Infinity and would pick location and exterior any day before interior. Interior is the one thing you could change more.
    Like the other posts, I was on the BB the other day and was suprised how close I was to the Rincon.

  82. Posted by Anonymous

    I would like to re-ask what someone posted earlier which is, “Does anyone know when the second tower is to begin construction?”.
    With the closing dates posted above for upper floor units, this would mean that the second tower would not be complete until 2010 if it were to begin construction before the first tower is completely occupied.

  83. Posted by Anonymous

    My understanding is that the second tower will begin construction in 2008, after the first tower is substantially complete but likely not fully occupied yet.

  84. Posted by do it yourself

    “Sounds like a peach of an idea. Spend an extra $50K on an already overpriced condo to “redo” the interior.”
    I don’t know why people think it cost so much to redo a small condo. Ever heard of do it yourself? I remodeled my own condo by buying the material at a discounted contractor’s price, then slowly remodeling the unit with a couple buddies. Ask any person and they can’t tell the difference between a contractor’s work and a ‘do it yourself-er’. It’s not that difficult once you put your head and heart into it.
    So I rather choose a building that is pretty on the outside and ugly in the inside cuz the inside can ALWAYS change, but outside can’t.

  85. Posted by MissBa resident

    great reading….
    curmudgeon must be out of towm…he/she has not yet posted comments (always pointed and informational) on this particular thread.

  86. Posted by curmudgeon

    Actually, I’ve posted very little on the great One Rincon vs Infinity debate, MissBa. But it’s nice to know I’m missed. For the record I’m not loving the exterior of One Rincon so far….I’m kinda with the crowd who think it’s an eighties Irvine office building on growth hormone. And why stress the horizontal rather than the vertical? It’s a skyscraper gosh darn it.
    I just do not feel the passion about this building. And so many on this list have so much more to say, ad nauseum, that I’m for the most part staying out of the debate.

  87. Posted by Anonymous

    “I’m kinda with the crowd who think it’s an eighties Irvine office building on growth hormone. And why stress the horizontal rather than the vertical? It’s a skyscraper gosh darn it.
    I just do not feel the passion about this building. And so many on this list have so much more to say, ad nauseum, that I’m for the most part staying out of the debate.”
    curmudgeon has spoken so you can all go home. Guys, can we try and avoid pandering to particular bloggers to this site just because they happen use a distinctive handle (case in point, Sexy and Sassy in SF, although I have enjoyed some of her “over the top” comments).
    I think there are plenty “Anons” on this topic that have given some great feedback so let’s not cut them out of the loop.

  88. Posted by missionbay res

    Does anyone know what is the white trim’s material made of? I’m wondering with the building a few feet from the freeway/bridge, and with all that traffic, dust, and soot, what will happen to the white trim over time?
    Look at any building near tons of traffic and you’ll see black soot build on the walls and ledges of the structure. You see it in parts of SF, but it’s much more prevalent in the East coast.
    Now with 1Rincon’s strange white trim so noticeable and prominent, can you imagine how it’ll look when it start to turn gray then black with soot?
    Not a very pretty site…

  89. Posted by Anonymous

    The white trim really does stand out much more than on the renderings. I am curious what the material is also, and it could present long term problems in how it could be kept clean. We have also not heard back from the anon who claimed this would be one of the last projects built in the city with floor to ceiling glass windows. I doubt THAT information is correct.

  90. Posted by Anonymous

    Interesting point.
    Who’s the genius that decided to put white trim next to a freeway?
    The black soot sticks best to concrete and brick, but given the close proximity to the bridge I can imagine the soot sticking to anything. What’s going to happen over time is the black soot will start near the base of the building and slowly work it’s way higher.
    Imagine the white trim turning black near the bottom and turning lighter the higher it goes. And I’m guessing the soot will be most noticeable facing the bridge…

  91. Posted by Anonymous

    I cannot imagine residents paying $700-$1000 per month for their HOA and not ensuring that the windows and exterior facade are not kept impeccably clean, to prevent soot build-up.

  92. Posted by Anonymous

    Case in point, look at the Portside building…approximately 10 years old, white and directly under the bridge. The windows and siding are cleaned regularly and you don’t see a lot of soot on it.

  93. Posted by Anonymous

    The Portside building is what 5-10 stories high? Given 1Rincon’s height, cleaning the windows and all the white trim is easier said than done. I’m sure the HOA will have it cleaned, but really it’ll need to be cleaned often to avoid soot buildup. And don’t think it’s as easy as wiping windows. Soot cleaning often requires the use of special chemicals and equipment.
    Again, I’d like to know the genius that decided on putting white trim near a freeway. A major mistake that may really affect the look of the building in the years to come…

  94. Posted by Anonymous

    Portside is nothing in scale, relative to One Rincon. However, I used to live in that building and can attest that they used the same type of chemicals there. Sure, it’ll take a lot longer to clean One Rincon, but collecting a lot more HOA payments allows maintenance to deploy a lot more cleaning workers. I really think that this will be a non-issue, as there is no way that residents will allow the building to not be maintained. C’mon folks, we’re talking about a very prominent building, with hundreds of wealthy residents, not a cheap Edwardian in the inner Mission.

  95. Posted by Anonymous

    Both myself and some other posts had asked about what was located within the levels that are immediatly adjacent to the freeway in elevation. It looks like those are going to be residential units also!? Does anyone know if that is parking or condos? It will make for some interesting viewing for drivers sitting in traffic as you can really see right into the building.

  96. Posted by Anonymous

    “C’mon folks, we’re talking about a very prominent building, with hundreds of wealthy residents”
    Heh heh, that’s funny. The building’s not even finish and it’s a “prominent” building, with “wealthy” flippers/residents?
    Let’s hope the HOA is on the ball on this one, cuz to me that soot can be a major issue. Even the Met is starting to show some grayish soot on it’s concrete trimming and it’s only a few years old…

  97. Posted by Anonymous

    I love the characterization of the residents to 1Rincon as “wealthy.”
    For SF standards, the cost of the “Tower Level” condos does not require that one be wealthy, again, at least by SF standards.
    I also find it interesting that the people that ignorantly try to characterize the residents as snooty rich folks have no idea that virtually the entire sales team at 1Rincon has purchased a unit in the building and, while their deposit terms are clearly an employee perk (it’s something like $5000 as opposed to 3%), they still have to pay relative market value for the units themselves. My point is, the only units that are being purchased by the so-called “rich and famous” are the super high end units on 28-31 and 51-60, which are not that many compared to the tower level units.

  98. Posted by Invented

    “One Rincon will not likely win any AIA or other design awards but it is clean and, except for that bowed front with its cut-in balconies, pretty purely modern. It will be interesting to look back in 20 years and see which high rise has aged the most gracefully.”
    No need to wait, just look @ the Federal Bldg (Golden Gate Ave/Larkin) with coiincidentally has the SAME vertical white lines as 1R AND dark glass — and see how graceful that eyesore looks today.

  99. Posted by Anonymous

    This discussion about how the towers look is so completely absurd at this point given where this project is in its life.
    It’s like watching a breast augmentation procedure where the surgeon is literally sitting there with the implants in his hand before they’ve even been implanted implanted into the woman and having some idiot that’s watching going, “Gosh, I think that breast job is really ugly.”
    At least before when when people were trash talking the building’s location, that at least made sense since its location was then fixed and wasn’t going to change between the time that the project broke ground and the time that the last piece of glass is installed on the second tower.
    I don’t have any problem with people completely bashing the building’s exterior experience when it’s fully completed. I totally respect a difference of opinion. But right now? How stupid.

  100. Posted by Anonymous

    I think the point is that the reality versus the slick sales images is sometimes shocking for some people. When driving by the tower now that it is going up you really see how close it is to the freeway, and seeing the dark glass vs. the glazing shown on the website and in brochures finally begins to show what we are ALL going to be living with. Have you ever started to paint a wall and realized that the color in the can is not exactly what was printed on the color chart?

  101. Posted by Anonymous

    “I think the point is that the reality versus the slick sales images is sometimes shocking for some people. When driving by the tower now that it is going up you really see how close it is to the freeway, and seeing the dark glass vs. the glazing shown on the website and in brochures finally begins to show what we are ALL going to be living with. Have you ever started to paint a wall and realized that the color in the can is not exactly what was printed on the color chart?”
    I still think my earlier point was missed. Your premise, while totally valid, is still, in my opinion, totally premature.
    Again….let’s have this chat in late ’07, early ’08 when at least the first tower will be complete.
    I still disagree with the conclusion, but I do respect the difference of opinion nonetheless.

  102. Posted by Anonymous

    Bottom line. The building is going to be absolutely gorgeous. The problem is that these new buildings (which includes the Infinity) look like they belong on the water in Miami Beach so naturally they are going to draw criticism given that they will, I admit, look somewhat out of place in SF, that is until more buildings of this style are built in the area. Then they won’t stand out as much.

  103. Posted by Anonymous

    Isn’t the building over 25 stories high with it’s skin up to 15 stories? It’s clearly easy to see how the building will look when complete. It’s not like the top 30 floors will look any different than the first 25.
    When I first saw the renditions of the building and all the slick marketing material I thought the building would like stunning.
    Look at the sales brochure or the main page of the website. See how there’s barely any traffic on the street and on the freeway. The only time it’s like that is 11pm on a Monday night. Otherwise there’s contant traffic.
    And what about the pictures of the building. In reality, the glass is so much darker and the white trim so much brighter. And doesn’t the building look so much closer to the freeway than the brochure?
    Again, chalk it up to a very very slick marketing campaign…

  104. Posted by Anonymous

    “And doesn’t the building look so much closer to the freeway than the brochure? ”
    Yes, that’s partially due to the rendering exaggerating the distance and also partially due to the fact that, until the West Approach is completed and that temporary freeway is torn down, the freeway will be closer to the building. It will be significantly further back, however, once that is complete. I honestly agree with others that have said, “why would you want a unit facing the south side on a lower floor?” even after the freeway is moved further away from the building. I have to believe those units are discounted to take that into account.
    I sure wouldn’t.

  105. Posted by Anonymous

    Everyone is talking about The Freeway, soot, shorter life spans, etc., but it’s really an architectural gem – The Bay Bridge!
    What do you think the next few decades will be like? Aren’t we on the verge of cleaner and quieter vehicle technology that will make the noisy exhaust-spewing cars & trucks of today seem sooooo last century? Call me over optimistic, but I think this liability will not be so bad over time and will allow for more density in our cities and fewer ‘bad’ locations.

  106. Posted by Anonymous

    “Aren’t we on the verge of cleaner and quieter vehicle technology that will make the noisy exhaust-spewing cars & trucks of today seem sooooo last century?”
    One would certainly hope, but unfortunately your refreshing optimism is not conducive to bashing 1Rincon so that’s probably why it was overlooked or ignored.

  107. Posted by Anonymous

    “The problem is that these new buildings (which includes the Infinity) look like they belong on the water in Miami Beach so naturally they are going to draw criticism given that they will, I admit, look somewhat out of place in SF.”
    THIS is the problem! San Francisco does not have the climate or the architectural vocabulary of Miami. Whenever anyone writes about San Francisco architecture however, they get jumped on because many people think that means “Victorians” or Edwardians” when in fact neithor of those styles were developed here (We can claim to be one of the founding regions of arts and crafts architecture however). It is unfortunate that people are not aware of an existing group of Bay Area regional modernists who adapted to the climate and available materials. Check out the NorCal Modern book. Those houses are beautiful and yet are fit into our landscape. There is no point in going back to the “San Francisco Identity” topic, but what many newcomers do not understand, is that this was a very unique city with its own style , food, music and architecture. I fear those days are now almost gone. We now look to Miami, San Diego and Los Angeles where as 100 years ago Daniel Burnham wanted this to be “Paris on the Pacific”.

  108. Posted by Anonymous

    Buildings that are 60 stories…or 40…or 20…aren’t coming down anytime soon, so the city should have more say in what a developer in the picture for 5-10 years at most (incl planning & approval time) is doing, since SF will have to live with it for probably 100 years. Seriously. Every large building should have to pass a “is this going to look really sucky in the city 25, 50 or 100 years from now.” One Rincon, other than the one facade that is curved is BORING, and I agree that any horizontal white stripes are ridiculous considering the height and juxtaposition with the vertical white bands. It’s like overweight people who should not wear striped shirts. SF skyscrapers should start to look like they’re from Star Wars Courisant city, not Tulsa.

  109. Posted by Anonymous

    In regard to soot, take a look at the walls of almost every building in SF that is not cleaned regularly. In the Marina, North Beach, Financial District, SOMA, Rincon Hill, it does not matter they all get dirty from the thing we call a city and all have to be cleaned.
    One Rincon’s white trim is probably much easier to clean than concrete or stucco since it looks like a non-porous surface.

  110. Posted by Anonymous

    “It’s not like the top 30 floors will look any different than the first 25.”
    I love comments like this. Doesn’t anybody do their homework before posting? The top floors have a different floor plan than the lower levels so the the top of the building will have a different shape. Take a look at the floor plans on the website, dolt.

  111. Posted by Anonymous

    “I don’t know why people think it cost so much to redo a small condo. Ever heard of do it yourself? I remodeled my own condo by buying the material at a discounted contractor’s price, then slowly remodeling the unit with a couple buddies. Ask any person and they can’t tell the difference between a contractor’s work and a ‘do it yourself-er’. It’s not that difficult once you put your head and heart into it.”
    Yeah, people buying a one bedroom with a brand new interior for $1MM are really the do it yourself people. Come’on.

  112. Posted by Anonymous

    “One would certainly hope, but unfortunately your refreshing optimism is not conducive to bashing 1Rincon so that’s probably why it was overlooked or ignored.”
    This statement could not be more true. Just about every statement that gets a response is negative. Whether it is someone who has a valid question or is making a positive point, they just get ignored.

  113. Posted by John

    “”One would certainly hope, but unfortunately your refreshing optimism is not conducive to bashing 1Rincon so that’s probably why it was overlooked or ignored.”
    This statement could not be more true. Just about every statement that gets a response is negative. Whether it is someone who has a valid question or is making a positive point, they just get ignored.”
    So true. There seems to be WAY to much negative going on with 1Rincon to plop down a large deposit.
    Whether it’s the location, traffic, pollution, noise, soot, freeway, onramp, no deeded or self parking option, isolation, lack of amenities, and now it’s sucky, dated design, there’s just too much for the average SF condo buyer/investor to digest at this point and probably better options out there….

  114. Posted by John

    “I love comments like this. Doesn’t anybody do their homework before posting? The top floors have a different floor plan than the lower levels so the the top of the building will have a different shape. Take a look at the floor plans on the website, dolt.”
    Looking at the picture of the building in their website – http://www.onerinconhill.com/
    the building doesn’t change much at the top floors. Maybe on one side, but that’s about it. Certainly not enough to save it from it’s current bad design.
    Also, look at the aerial tour, the color of the building doesn’t match what we’re seeing now. It’s not even close. The website shows the building so much lighter and the white trim is not as noticeable. Why 1Rincon didn’t portray the dark windows in the beginning is beyond me…

  115. Posted by Anonymous

    “Every large building should have to pass a “is this going to look really sucky in the city 25, 50 or 100 years from now.”
    Do I agree with this comment. This is what is being missed by some of the defenders of this project. For those of us who are not interested in purchasing one of these units, we will still be stuck with having to look at this tower as it is going to be a large part of the urban skyline. I think San Francisco deserves better design.

  116. Posted by Mike

    After reading this thread, I had a look at the building, and, by gosh, it IS pretty ridiculous. I actually thought it looked nice with the dark flat windows before they started adding at the trim.
    I’ll reserve judgment until it’s finished, but it’s not looking that great so far.

  117. Posted by Anonymous

    I think the building looks pretty damn close to the renderings shown on the website. Having a background in 3-D rendering, this is about as close as you get. The white trim is also shown in the rendering. Yes, it does not look as dramatic since the image is only 3 inches tall but I do not think the rendering is inaccurate.

  118. Posted by Anonymous

    “There seems to be WAY to much negative going on with 1Rincon to plop down a large deposit.”
    I am glad you use the 116 posts here probably by a handful of people, the same people always negative on the One Rincon blogs, as your investment tool. Good luck. Hey socketsite…maybe we should start a blog on hegde funds and stocks, then this guys can plan his entire portfolio.
    One of the points I was trying to make is that when a valid point is made, or even if someone is asking a valid question not positive or negative, it gets ignored. It is testament to the poor quality of the blogs associated with Rincon Hill.

  119. Posted by Anonymous

    Nonsense. I think some of the information posted here is extremely helpful regarding 1rincon eg. Washer/Dryer hook-ups, parking, auto exhaust concerns from freeway, upcoming projects that will surround towers such as this, etc. More interesting and helpful still is to find out on this site that towers such as this could be dwarfed by upcoming projects so if one is spending top dollar to have one of the highest units in the city, you may be in for suprise. I even think it is helpful to hear how other people feel about the design of the building. Projects such as this are selling a “product”, therefore the design needs to be attractive or you could be in real trouble.

  120. Posted by Anonymous

    “Every large building should have to pass a “is this going to look really sucky in the city 25, 50 or 100 years from now.”
    Gosh, I would not worry too much about how a particular building might look like in 50 or 100 years. San Francisco is not Rome. It’s on a major fault on the pacific rim……

  121. Posted by Anonymous

    “More interesting and helpful still is to find out on this site that towers such as this could be dwarfed by upcoming projects so if one is spending top dollar to have one of the highest units in the city, you may be in for suprise.”
    But you can make this comment with respect to virtually any new project. The grass is ALWAYS greener. However, I think the price points at 1Rincon are more than worth the investment. $800/sqft is no cause for alarm.

  122. Posted by Anonymous

    “But you can make this comment with respect to virtually any new project. The grass is ALWAYS greener. However, I think the price points at 1Rincon are more than worth the investment. $800/sqft is no cause for alarm.”
    800/Sqft for what? 3rd floor? Obviously the higher the floor and better the view and the higher the price. I think the folks that got in at 800/sqft are limited to the lowest floors (unless you’re a lucky family member, insider, or employee). I know some got in around 850+/sqft, but seems most got in around 900-1000/sqft.
    Given all the negatives surrounding the property, 850/sgft is probably a fair price to pay for a view condo hugging a freeway (unless you’re on the 40th+ floor)…

  123. Posted by SF Living

    Nooooo waaayyy, I say the location itself is too big of a factor to place a bet on 1Rincon at this point.
    $850/SQFT better get me something on the 40th floor with Bay views cuz that’s what the building is worth now given all the negatives (location, pollution, traffic, onramp, exterior design, etc…)

  124. Posted by Anonymous

    “800/Sqft for what? 3rd floor? Obviously the higher the floor and better the view and the higher the price. I think the folks that got in at 800/sqft are limited to the lowest floors (unless you’re a lucky family member, insider, or employee). I know some got in around 850+/sqft, but seems most got in around 900-1000/sqft.”
    I hate to break it to you, but no, not 3rd floor. Above 15 and below 20 and a corner unit facing towards downtown and Twin Peaks.

  125. Posted by Anonymous

    “$850/SQFT better get me something on the 40th floor with Bay views cuz that’s what the building is worth now given all the negatives (location, pollution, traffic, onramp, exterior design, etc…)”
    You have got to be kidding me. Have you even taken a look at any of the selling prices for condos in the area? The only buildings that are at that price are older units and I doubt they have anywhere close to a 40th floor view. The fact of the matter is that many people are willing to pay a lot more than that for both view and location (I’m not referring to being next to the freeway, but to the proximity to the Embarcadero, Ferry Building, downtown, etc).

  126. Posted by Anonymous

    Given all the negative surrounding this building, I’d say 850-900/sqft is a fair price. The market’s not as strong as it used to be and given all the inventory and upcoming inventory any sound real estate buyers probably wouldn’t pay more than that right now… at least for 1Rincon.

  127. Posted by Anonymous

    “Given all the negative surrounding this building, I’d say 850-900/sqft is a fair price. The market’s not as strong as it used to be and given all the inventory and upcoming inventory any sound real estate buyers probably wouldn’t pay more than that right now… at least for 1Rincon.”
    Do you know the demographic of the buyers that already put down 30k+ for 90% of the units to be making such a statement or do you really have nothing to back it up?

  128. Posted by terrible comment

    [Editor’s Note: We’ve removed the original comment (and reference) that solicited the following response. And we wholeheartedly agree with “terrible comment.”]
    Excuse you, I think you owe this person an apology. Are you saying if a person’s English grammer is not perfect, they are poor and uneducated?? A lot of folks from overseas such as various parts of Asia (Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tokyo, etc…) are buying property in San Francisoc and other exotic parts of the world. My uncle is a super rich millionaire from Hong Kong, but his English very quite bad, but he loves the internet and email. To say what you said makes you a bigot and/or racist. I sure hope other Rincon buyers/fans are not like you (actually I know they are not).
    Shame on you!

  129. Posted by Anonymous

    “To say what you said makes you a bigot and/or racist. I sure hope other Rincon buyers/fans are not like you (actually I know they are not).
    Shame on you!”
    On behalf of the future residents at 1Rincon, I would like to say, “No, we are not” and I agree with you as well.
    The comment, was cheap, petty and shameful. As much as I hate to say it, maybe the Editor should think about taking a break from “The Great 1Rincon Debate” to let things cool down a bit.
    When I decided to purchase one of these units a little over 6 months ago, I never imagined that this project would become such a source of hostility, vitriol and just plain old mean-spiritedness among people who really have no stake whatsoever in it.

  130. Posted by Anonymous

    Thanks socketsite.
    Seems some of these post are out of control with emotion running the show more than logic. Though I understand 1Rincon buyers need to defend themselves, their comments are sometimes pretty offensive and ludicrous (though I agree most are fair minded folks).

  131. Posted by Anonymous

    Okay…my comment was taken the wrong way. It was a joke. It was in bad taste but for one, the word that the person used was “cuz.” This is American slang. It has nothing to do with race or nationality or someone’s ability to not speak english well.
    It is a word used by a lot of teenagers. That was my orginal thought process.
    “To say what you said makes you a bigot and/or racist.”
    That is a stretch. I do apoligize since I see how it could be taken the wrong way, but the word I used is by no means racist.

  132. Posted by Anonymous

    “Thanks socketsite.
    Seems some of these post are out of control with emotion running the show more than logic. Though I understand 1Rincon buyers need to defend themselves, their comments are sometimes pretty offensive and ludicrous (though I agree most are fair minded folks).”
    Not so fast. Yes, in this case that ridiculous comment may have come from a buyer, but please don’t insult everyone’s intelligence by trying to insinuate that these outrageous and mean comments have come only from the 1Rincon buyers.
    That just isn’t so. Most of these comments have come from people who, not only are not 1Rincon buyers, they’re not even prospective buyers.
    Bottom line is that it’s obvious that there are a lot of jerks who get on here not to provide any kind of substantive information or food for thought, but just to get 1Rincon buyers riled up so that they will make stupid comments like the one that was recently removed.
    I’ve said this numerous times on other 1Rincon related topics, but I’ll say it again……”Don’t take the bait.” There’s nothing but downside. Just live and let live.

  133. Posted by Anonymous

    “Okay…my comment was taken the wrong way. It was a joke. It was in bad taste but for one, the word that the person used was “cuz.” This is American slang. It has nothing to do with race or nationality or someone’s ability to not speak english well.”
    No, I believe what you said was that person’s grammer or English was not up to par so they couldn’t afford to live at 1Rincon.
    The word “cuz” is a slang but also used by a lot of folks just to shorten the word “because”. I know I use it all the time in emails and online chats and I’m certainly not a teenager, but more like the mid 30′s….
    But let’s take Anon at 10:24 AM’s advice -
    “Don’t take the bait.” There’s nothing but downside. Just live and let live.”
    Amen

  134. Posted by Anonymous

    I admit, it was a stupid comment. I take full responsibility and I apologize. I just wanted to be clear that even though my thought process was flawed….
    “It is a word used by a lot of teenagers. That was my orginal thought process.”
    ….it was not racist. It should be taken at face value as a bad joke. Let’s not over analyze it.

  135. Posted by Anonymous

    I have not been following the whole insult thing but I am curious why some feel that if you are not a “buyer” (Has anyone even opened escrows yet?) in 1rincon, that you can therefore not have an opinion about the project. Two Tall landmark towers such as this project invite opinions as they will be part of the future look and identity of the city. One Rincon takes a strong position on design and location and this creates strong opinions both pro and con. If it were not next to the freeway and bridge acting as an urban gateway, I wonder if anyone would really care about these towers? The towers actually look rather ordinary on the outside to me.

  136. Posted by Anonymous

    “I admit, it was a stupid comment. I take full responsibility and I apologize. I just wanted to be clear that even though my thought process was flawed….”
    Anon @ 10:57 was big enough to take responsibility and apologize for the comment so I agree, let’s accept his or her apology and move on.
    I can’t believe I’m saying this, but unfortunately for Rodney King, he may have involunatarily turned out to be one of the most poetic figures of the 20th century….
    “Can’t we all just get along?”

  137. Posted by Anonymous

    “I am curious why some feel that if you are not a “buyer” (Has anyone even opened escrows yet?) in 1rincon, that you can therefore not have an opinion about the project.”
    Yes, we have opened escrows, quite awhile ago. And just to be clear, who ever said or remotely implied that if a person is not a 1Rincon buyer, they could not have an opinion about the project? That would be absurd and you know it.
    The comment made above was made to refer only to completely gratuitous, mean-spirited comments which are meant to do nothing more than get emotions running high and also make those who, for some reason have some kind of an inferiority complex (which makes no sense), feel better about themselves.
    I’ve seen plenty of great comments with great insight and food for thought from lots of posters who clearly are only casual observers and not buyers or even prospective buyers. And yes, I am referring to negative, positive and neutral comments as to the appeal of 1Rincon.

  138. Posted by Anonymous

    This building could have a similar story to the Pacific Design Center in Los Angeles that became known as the “Blue Whale”. It was hated at first, but everyone knew what and where it was as it was very out of scale with the neighborhood. Because of the identity the building developed, it became more attractive to tenants and was expanded. One Rincon will be a building that when you same the name, everyone will know what and where it is and this could be very helpful to buyers in the long run.

  139. Posted by Anonymous

    Further to Anon @ 12:54′s insightful point. It is funny how just name recognition alone can make certain properties more desirable, separate and apart from the question of whether the property itself is appealing as an actual home.
    The above poster does make a good point. There are plenty of beautiful properties in this city that most certainly are superior to 1Rincon or the Infinity, etc, pricing aside and not counting those very distinctive properties in Pac Heights, etc. where the home itself has a very well known history, but you almost never would hear someone say, “Where do you live? Oh I live at 990 Green Unit #6. Oh really, wow, that’s a really nice place.”
    Why do you think Trump stamps his name on everything he builds? Residential buildings, casinos, golf courses, etc.
    True, plenty of people would reject a “name” building just because they are not impressed by the status of a name. But plenty of people go the other way as well.
    Speaking of, I was told by someone at the sales office that they have even applied with the U.S. Post Office for a formal address name change from “425 1st Street” to “One Rincon Hill.” What do you think that’s all about?

  140. Posted by Anonymous

    I have noticed that in Chicago new towers try to create a “name” the way Trump had created a identity for his buildings. They have names like “The Elysian” and “Fordham Place”. Ten years ago buildings were marketed as an address and now in Chicago they have a “story”. I am no fan of “the Donald”, but he does create buzz and his 90 story project in Chicago is almost sold out and is selling at 1,000 a sq. ft. and up (which is very high for Chicago). Now you only see new buildings with names instead of addresses and I think it is very clever of One Rincon to change the formal address name of the building.

  141. Posted by Anonymous

    “I am no fan of “the Donald”, but he does create buzz and his 90 story project in Chicago is almost sold out and is selling at 1,000 a sq. ft. and up (which is very high for Chicago).”
    Is that the project that Bill from The Apprentice was supposedly going to work on? Yes, if there’s anyone that knows how to create a buzz so as to heighten the status of his brand name, it is the Donald.
    Maybe Kriozere of Urban West Associates (the 1Rincon developer) can get into some kind of verbal tussle with Rosie so that my condo can increase in value.

  142. Posted by Anonymous

    “There are plenty of beautiful properties in this city that most certainly are superior to 1Rincon or the Infinity, etc,”
    That’s like saying an old classic car is most certainly superior to a new one. Maybe to some people but it comes down to individual taste.
    Frankly, I think a new building is superior to an old building. This is due to the fact that I don’t feel like dealing with the maintainence no matter how beautiful it might be.
    That’s why SF is so great. Some people think the buildings in Pac Heights or Russian Hill are superior others think the new highrises are superior. Something for everyone!

  143. Posted by SeeHsee

    “Frankly, I think a new building is superior to an old building. This is due to the fact that I don’t feel like dealing with the maintainence no matter how beautiful it might be.”
    Oh my goodness, the surprises that may be in store for you! The first owners in new buildings are the ones who have to deal with potential construction defects (and the resulting litigation), the discovery of system deficiencies, and sudden increases in HOA dues when it becomes clear that fees weren’t accurately estimated to cover operating expenses and still fund reserves. The first few years are also the ones during which the association argues about keeping or ditching features and services the developers put in place as marketing devices (high-maintenance landscaping and concierge service, for example).
    With an older building, you have the first advantage of taking ownership after these initial “surprises” have been rectified. You also have the second benefit of seeing the building’s history of maintenance issues, HOAs dues increases, and other factors that might impact your decision to buy (or at least give you a heads-up of what you may encounter), as all of this is documented in HOA meeting minutes and other reports.
    I’ve lived in new-construction condos, a condo in a 1920′s-era building, and condos built during several decades in between. The older buildings have always presented the fewest surprises with regard to maintenance problems and the associated financial consequences, and they’ve always had the best, most seasoned management and maintenance teams in place to handle whatever arose.

  144. Posted by Anonymous

    Seehee…so emotional. You must have had a bad experience. Defects, litigation, sudden increases in HOA? I am sure these are possible but I have also lived in buildings brand new and old.
    Not sure how you can argue my own opinion with me but I still like new buildings better.

  145. Posted by Anonymous

    HOA dues are usually set at too low an amount in the initial phase of almost any project including mine. My experience is more like SeeHsee in that we had numerous lawsuits with the developer over everything from landscaping (trees died) , leaks and cracking in parking garage, cracking of wall plaster from building settlement (still ongoing lawsuits on this), pipes incorrectly installed for laundry drainage in about 36 of the units (huge mess to replace those), and elevators that never should have been installed for the amount of activity my building gives them, (these were upgraded to better units, which involved ANOTHER lawsuit). Almost the entire Homeowners Association Board resigned after first year because of the amount of time involved in battling with the developer and owners over the numerous problems. I will not even get into all of the new rules that had to be ammended into the bylaws during the first year as THAT would be a whole website blog unto itself.

  146. Posted by Anonymous

    Perhaps you both have just had bad luck. I as well as my friends have lived in a number of brand new developments and never had any problems. My HOA fees have never increased dramatically.
    There were a couple drainage problems in the courtyard but the developer fixed them with no problem.
    Like I said, different strokes for different folks. I could go on and on about the things that go wrong with an old building but that too could be a whole blog unto itself.

  147. Posted by SeeHsee

    Anonymous at 6:52 pm…Of course a number of things can go wrong with an older building, and I’m not trying to argue anyone out of new construction. My point was simply that new construction doesn’t protect one from having to face maintenance issues as Anonymous at 4:17 pm suggested. And with older buildings, you’re likely to have a documented history of maintenance concerns and therefore a better idea about what might be on the horizon. One good thing about new construction, though, is that I believe the developer/builder has to warranty the construction for 10 years.

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