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I actually don't like that view. I purposely chose a unit on the other side away from the bridge (facing downtown and Twin Peaks).

The ideal is, of course, a floor on 15 of above on the northeast corner of the building, but then we're talking some serious bones.

You should check out this past week's NYTimes sunday article that includes a picture of one rincon hill.

From a Nov. 12 NY Times article...

"In the Rincon Hill neighborhood of San Francisco, where the new luxury tower One Rincon Hill is selling for $1,000 a square foot, parking standards allow a maximum of one space per unit. Just a few blocks away, downtown requirements undercut that figure by a quarter, making One Rincon Hill more attractive to buyers with cars.

“It gives them a marketing advantage,” said Victor Gonzalez, director of development for Monahan Pacific, a local company that has built condo properties downtown. “You’d be killed if you tried to do a project in the suburbs without parking,” he added."

Interesting.

For me, that is one scary shot. If I were a terrorist, I would think this building was the ideal building to take down in a second act to the world trade center. Knock it down just right (or maybe knock it down at all) and it will fall right into the approach to the bay bridge, which would wreak havoc and cause economic disruption for years to come. As bad as the WTC was, the effects were limited compared to the effects of a plane into this building. I am aware of NO OTHER BUILDING in the country that has this much potential for economic disruption with a single plane crash.

What the hell were the planners thinking when they allowed this project to be built so close to the most significant artery in the bay area. The planners who allowed this project to be built are crazier than the terrorists!

I'm sorry to be bringing this up, but every terrorist in the world is looking at that photo and just salivating. I'm sorry to raise the issue here, but jesus, someone needs to bring this up. That location is nuts.

I'm sure I'm not going to be very popular on this forum for raising this as an issue, and I hope my prediction never occurs, but holy smokes, I've never seen a dumber plan.

Uhhh.........I think with that last post, the SocketSite administrator need to institute something along the lines of the FAA and Homeland Security rule where even mentioning a terrorist act, whether serious or not, is a felony...wow.

Very uncool...

tipster -

You're unhinged. Take your weirdly obsessive terrorist fantasy elsewhere.

To think someone can still find a way to commandeer a plane and find a way to crash it into one of the thinnest skyscrapers in San Francisco, you're delusional. If you want to go this route, they might as well just crash it into the Bay Bridge. But it ain't gonna happen. No crew in their right mind ever allows a terrorist to take over a plane ever again.

Delusion. When considering buying at Rincon Hill, this should be the furthest from your mind. How idiotic.

Agreed with the crowd - this is a real estate website, so let's please keep the paranoia to a minimum. Can't live our entire lives in fear of stuff like that.

First thing that popped into my head was, "Man, what an ugly view." Who wants to stare at a (non GG) bridge all day long? Units forced to stare at a freeway all day long should be cheaper.

At the very least, it would make me a little nervous when I see one of those KCBS choppers or Channel 7 planes flying around the bridge and 1Rincon... (which undoubtedly will happen once construction is completed)
All this publicity can be a negative especially when you combine a major bridge and a famous highrise within a few feet from each other.
I hope to god an accident don't happen...

If we went by tipster's insane logic (or illogic), no one would ever build an unobstructed high-rise building in any major city in the U.S.

And you're right, you're not popular here, so take a hike with that jazz....

I for one think this would be a fine view, with the buildings, the island, the East Bay, and of course the bridge. The Bay Bridge isn't picturesque? To some/many people it is. And I would be a bit hypnotized watching the cars and trucks and buses going by on the bridge. It's a fine view, to me at least.

Oh, and if we're still afraid of terrorists with aviation skills, let's just build nothing at all from now on.

""From a Nov. 12 NY Times article...

"In the Rincon Hill neighborhood of San Francisco, where the new luxury tower One Rincon Hill is selling for $1,000 a square foot, parking standards allow a maximum of one space per unit. Just a few blocks away, downtown requirements undercut that figure by a quarter, making One Rincon Hill more attractive to buyers with cars.""

Does the NY Times understand it's valet parking only and though you technically get a 'space', you'll never actually see where those valets are really parking (or cramming) your car. A 'space' to me is more like Infinity where you get your own assigned deeded parking 'space'.

"Does the NY Times understand it's valet parking only and though you technically get a 'space', you'll never actually see where those valets are really parking (or cramming) your car. A 'space' to me is more like Infinity where you get your own assigned deeded parking 'space'."

I think 1Rincon's 90% purchase rate vs. the Infinity's less than stellar numbers pretty much answers your question.

Okay, the dead horse (and tipster) have been adequately flogged. Please feel free to discuss planes and buildings over here, otherwise let's get back to One Rincon Hill construction, parking, and views...

Thanks to Paul for those great pics.

I've reserved a unit on the west side of One Rincon, a tad bit higher than the 15th floor, and from the pics on Paul's page, it looks like there's a straight shot from One Rincon to Twin Peaks. It's not a bad view, in my opinion; I like that the horizon is far away. Freeways are ugly, sure, but in the evening, with the little white and red lights moving, they look like arteries, which is kinda sorta interesting, no? Anyone?

I have a question though, regarding that westside view. Is there anything in the pipeline that would obstruct that view? I've looked into it a bit, and as reported by Socketsite, 45 Lansing will sport a highrise, but that's across the street to the northwest, and should be out of the way. Some of the buildings directly west of One Rincon have (I think) been designated as historical and can not be built upon, and others plots have been ok'd for shorter buildings. Anyone have any info?

49Giants.......I am around the 20th in the 06 stack. To answer your question.....no, you will not be obstructed, for two reasons....

1. Because the west tower (our tower) is built at the crest of the crest of Rincon Hill and is also set back away from the corner of 1st and Harrison Streets; and

2. 45 Lansing has been incorrectly described as being built right on the corner of 1st and Harrison where the 76 gas station is currently located. Not so. The 45 Lansing tower will be built immediately adjacent to the gas station where an old ugly red brick building currently stands. There will be townhouses built where the gas station is located and those will be around the same height as the 1Rincon townhouses.

So there will be nothing to block your immediate view of anything. Everything will be in the distance.

"90% purchase rate vs. the Infinity's less than stellar numbers"

This is because 1Rincon was desparate to meet their sales numbers so they could lock down their loan. Thus they sold a ton of units below market. That created a frenzy to buy there. It's a smart marketing ploy I have to admit...

As a purchaser of a condo at 1Rincon (at $800/sq ft), it's hilarious to read the comments where people try in desperation to poo poo 1Rincon's immense popularity by citing that it is only successfully because its price points were below market, as though that's a bad thing.

Uhh, hello?......With all due respect, the people that bought at the Infinity for $1000/sq ft have definitely drank the Kool-Aid because the word "market" is not a finite term. I would argue that the 1Rincon price points were AT market.

When I sell my unit for $1000-1200/sq ft in 5-7 years, let's talk.

I bought the 08 stack in the mid twenties although it cost me more than 800/sq ft. I can't wait to have my view!

Does anybody know what price per sq ft the upper floor units at the Brannan going for these days? I would suspect that we would be close in pricing but 1Rincon does have better views.

While the views are superior, where are the retail amenities at 1Rincon? Are they planning to build a restaurant, cafe, grocery store and other convenient retail stores downstairs like they will at Infinity? If they do, please let us know, cuz I don't see it in any imminent plans.

I believe Infinity will have a french or italian restaurant, a high end grocery store, a cafe, a cleaner, and a couple other high end retailers right downstairs.


Looking at the map, you'll need to walk 4-5 blocks to reach any kind of retail establishments from 1Rincon (other than the gas station).

Oh my god!!! Walk 4-5 blocks to reach any kind of retail establishment?

He's right, let's pack it in...default on our K's and head home.

C'mon...walking is exactly what we should be doing....Alos, don't forget about the Folsom corridor..that's only 1 block from 1Rincon, down 1st. It's not going to be long before retail will be everywhere.

I don't believe there is any retail going in on the ground floor of 1 Rincon. I actually prefer this. I like that 1 Rincon is more of an exclusive property that is only open to its residents.

Does anybody know what floor of 1 Rincon clears the building to right to the east? If you look at the other pics on the skybox site where this pic came from, it seems that stacks 07 and 08 would have to be on a floor clearing the building to the east to see the bay bridge in its entirety. It look maybe as if another 8 floors might clear it.

Sure, walking 4-5 blocks down a hill and back up a hill lugging 30 lbs of groceries, your cup of latte, and your dry cleaning. Doesn't sound very appealing. Trust me, if it's not within 1-2 blocks, people will drive...

Why 1Rincon didn't plan any retail establishments like Infinty did. It just makes sense and make things so much more convenient, especially given 1Rincon's isolated location.

1 Rincon is far from an isolated location. There are far plenty more "isolated" places to live than on Rincon Hill.

I any case, I surely would not try walking anywhere with 30lbs of groceries, a latte and my dry cleaning. I'd have to make two trips even from the parking lot.

I live in a high-rise apt. that is 1 block from where the Infinity is going up and I still drive to go grocery shopping (that's not going to change unless they were to put in a nice grocery store that is literally right across the street.

Dry cleaning? Please, wake up and smell the 80's. Ever heard of drop-off and delivery at the concierge's desk?

This is all much ado about literally nothing.

"I don't believe there is any retail going in on the ground floor of 1 Rincon. I actually prefer this. I like that 1 Rincon is more of an exclusive property that is only open to its residents."

Exactly....and the Infinity residents will be wishing the same thing when they realize the extra hassle that comes with any guy off the street being able to meander through your home (or at least some of the common areas) so that he or she can get to one of the retail locations.

I definitely can do without that.

Not having any retail establishment nearby completely defeats the idea of developing a walkable neighborhood without the need to drive. Isn't this what developing Rincon Hill and the surrounding neighborhood all about??

Sure, some of you like the idea of an 'exclusive property', but think how convenient it will be to walk downstairs for a carton of milk or loaf of bread or baby formula. Just think how nice it will be to walk downstairs to the cafe to read your Sunday paper and have a nice breakfast. Isn't this what urban living is all about?

"I don't believe there is any retail going in on the ground floor of 1 Rincon. I actually prefer this. I like that 1 Rincon is more of an exclusive property that is only open to its residents."

Exactly....and the Infinity residents will be wishing the same thing when they realize the extra hassle that comes with any guy off the street being able to meander through your home (or at least some of the common areas) so that he or she can get to one of the retail locations."

Err.. isn't that the grand plan for the Folsom corridor and the Transbay terminal redevelopment? To have mixed-used developments with condos and townhomes mixed along with commercial spaces?

I don't know about you, but I see a lot of 1Rincon residents driving for their loaf of bread or baby formula...

I like the idea of walking down the street say a few blocks down to the Infinity to get coffee or dinner. To buy groceries I think I would always prefer to drive. I don't like the idea of sitting in a Starbucks right underneath my condo or people driving their shopping carts around my complex. I surely would not want cartons of milk and baby formula being sold beneath my million dollar condo.

Wow, did 1Rincon buyers suddenly become super snobs or what?? What's wrong with having some shopping nearby? I own a small retail store. Are we no longer good enough for them??

"baby formula..."

at 1Rincon?

That statement would be funny enough if it were made with respect to the city generaly, but when you specify Rincon Hill, that's some serious LOL...

Folks....relax....no one said that the idea was that a resident would NEVER get in their car again....it's more like they would never get in their car to commute to work. Driving to North Beach, the Marina, the Presidio, Trader Joes, Whole Foods down the street, etc.....that's all fair game and it doesn't sound unreasonable at all.

Everyone seems to have such tunnel vision.

Jeez these Infinity vs. 1 Rincon smackdowns are getting tedious.

[Editor's Note: We're with you on this one Mike, and we'll do our best to address it tomorrow.]

Yeah, I personally like it better now when we have a topic that is at least on neutral ground like, for instance, the last piece on the Transbay Terminal.

Seems like no one wants to say uncle and just acknowledge that there is no such thing as a finite better or worse....

Someone said the other day, it's like the Capulets and the Montagues. No one will submit.

"I surely would not want cartons of milk and baby formula being sold beneath my million dollar condo."

"Wow, did 1Rincon buyers suddenly become super snobs or what?? What's wrong with having some shopping nearby? I own a small retail store. Are we no longer good enough for them??"

To answer your question, no they didn't. That comment was ridiculous or at the very least, poorly worded.

I purchased a condo at 1Rincon and I would never snub a small retail or Mom & Pop store. Those kinds of stores give the neighborhood character.

Both developments are going to be beautiful and will appeal to different types of buyers. Personally, if I were buying in one of the two - I'm not, but if I was - I'd want a cafe either in the building or across the street. For those like me the Infinity is a great choice. For those that don't like it - hey, 1 Rincon is for you. Ground floor retail does not make one project better than the other in general. However, usually, sidewalks will be less lively and interesting around a building without any retail element.

As far as the 'my building is better than your building' goes... Please just decide to enjoy your respective expensive slices of space in the sky and spare the rest of us the petty attacks.

If there's such a thing as having too much attention, 1Rincon certainly has it. I don't ever recall a development in SF that has garnered so much publicity (good and bad).
It gets to a point where you wonder if this building will forever have a big giant bulls eye on it. To me, that's just bad karma...

"It gets to a point where you wonder if this building will forever have a big giant bulls eye on it."

Jeez....is this the return of "tipster" under an anonymous name?

This stuff is really getting old, guys. Doesn't anyone have anything fresh to add to the discussion?

uhh...I could be wrong, but I really don't think Anon was being quite so literal about that "bulls eye".

And as far as something fresh, this is actually a great question: is there a point at which a new development can actually have too much publicity? From a potential buyers perspective? From a developers perspective?

High end grocery stores are the "in" thing now. See the new Bristol Farms at the Westfield. Notice all the Whole Foods proliferating around the Bay Area. Many are located within residential developments. I don't know why the backlash toward having a nice boutique grocery store and cafe downstairs. It's not like it'll be a Walgreens. To me, it just adds to the convenience of living in the building... Certainly I don't see how it'll impact value in any way. I think it's a good thing, especially in an urban environment.

Agreed - this repetitive 1 Rincon/Infinity posturing has gotten way out of control - it hints to me that the marketing arms of these developments are active on this forum at any chance to keep the exposure of these developments high. So, please more discussions on other condo developments (aren't there something like 20,000 units in the planning pipeline for SF???), other neighborhoods in SF, and heck maybe even some SFR's priced under a mil that are meant for quasi normal working stiffs. You know, stuff that affects more than just a handful of high end condo buyers in South Beach/Rincon Hill - just a thought.

That said, if you want to find out if you're view will be blocked, a good place to start is the zoning height map for your area. While it can be superseded with transferable development rights (TDRs) downtown or by a variance in other areas, this will give you a start as to the maximum buildout of an area under the current zoning. Here's the one for downtown/Rincon Hill...

http://library1.municode.com/4201/DocView/14145/dat/1h.pdf

"I surely would not want cartons of milk and baby formula being sold beneath my million dollar condo."

"Wow, did 1Rincon buyers suddenly become super snobs or what?? What's wrong with having some shopping nearby? I own a small retail store. Are we no longer good enough for them??"

I surely would not snub a Mom & Pop store either. They are great for the neighborhood. The only problem is that most of the time these things end up being starbucks and safeway like under the Beacon.

Once everyone moves into the Infinity and Rincon they should have a big battle. Take it to the streets.

"aren't there something like 20,000 units in the planning pipeline for SF???), other neighborhoods in SF, and heck maybe even some SFR's priced under a mil that are meant for quasi normal working stiffs."

2 really good points. 1. SocketSite does a great job trying to get discussions going as to other new developments (although somehow we always end up on 1Rincon).....I'd love to hear more about the projects that are out there in the pre-approval and post-approval stage, but have not yet broken ground (I think most have been mentioned at least once though).

2. as for the "working stiffs" comment...hey brother, in SF, we're all working stiffs (me included, and I actually did buy a place in Rincon Hill).....Anyone who is a W-2 income earner in this city is exactly that......things are out of control and it doesn't look like it will be getting any better any time soon. Pretty soon, this city will be another Monte Carlo where the rich come to play, but where no working person can actually live.

It's sad really, because the city becomes that much less diverse. I'm not sold on this whole BMR housing requirement thing. I don't think that's really going to solve anything.

"Once everyone moves into the Infinity and Rincon they should have a big battle. Take it to the streets."

LOL....

"When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way! from you first cigarette your last dyin' days."

"Supposin' they ask us about the rumble?"

I don't think the marketing dept for either of these developments are fanning the flames. 1Rincon certainly has the bulk of the publicity.

I do think too much attention can be a negative, especially for a high end complex. Imagine the St Regis or the Ritz getting this amount of attention and criticism. It could certainly give some buyers in search of peace and privacy some angst. And it certainly doesn't give the building an 'exclusive property' feel to it...

If you follow real estate in SF and follow this blog it probably seems like the 1Rincon gets a lot of publicity but to the normal high end condo buyer I do not think they would have any idea of "all this publicity."

The "rumble on rincon"..now it's starting to get interesting!!

Jeez....is this the return of "tipster" under an anonymous name?

Nope, that wasn't me. I made my point and one post on the subject was enough.

I think that Anonymous poster was referring to projects that approach a certain size and have a certain quality about them that makes everyone want to attack them.

To those of us who don't own property in this part of town, it's pretty clear that the other buildings are the very pretty girls at the party, each of whom are about as pretty as one another, and each one in contention for the prettiest, and then this amazing tall stunner of a girl walks in, all the attention in the room turns to her, the other girls are all knocked out of the running, and every girl hates her. "I'd never want hair like that," one says. "Her legs are too long for my taste", says another. And every guy in the room understands what is going on.

For all the attacks, its pretty clear that the building has an aura that the others just don't have, but they all wish they did. The building DOES have a lot of flaws (my prior post on the subject being no exception), but it's got that aura thing down.

what a gorgeous view of traffic, honking, exhaust. I'd pay million+ for that one -AND WITH ONE PARKING SPACE!!!!!!!

wow. for a million bucks I could live the lifestyle of a buger flipper in the midwest!

Okay, so that pic is a view from the lowly *15th* floor. Not so great. Fine. But how about the views from floors 40 and up? I'm jealous of whomever bought those penthouses on the 55th or whatever the top floor is.

"For all the attacks, its pretty clear that the building has an aura that the others just don't have"

With all that traffic, that aura around the building is called SMOG.

"With all that traffic, that aura around the building is called SMOG."

You're posting under the wrong topic, player hater...

SocketSite has come up with a great solution for frustrated souls like yourself, see

http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2006/11/the_great_one_rincon_hillinfinity_smackdown.html#comments

I agree with everyone that the ORH's location sucks because of the onramps, but once you get up to your unit, the views will be unsurpassed. I'm on the 40th floor for a little over $900/sq ft - at the Infinity, I'd be on the 10th floor staring into an office building. The Infinity's views are going to be blocked in almost every direction unless you're willing to really pony up and drop $1.5m+. Also, no one ever mentions the horrible floorplans at the Infinity - you can't even put a real dining table in 90% of the units. I know ORH's location sucks, but I don't think that 3 blocks are worth the $300,000 premium.

Anyone get into the 03 stack in the first couple days? Can you let me know how much you paid?

I bought 03 stack on the 15th and paid 950K.